You are a fool to think that a guy who lost three times in a row is a sure thing to lose in any fight.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
You are a fool to think that a guy who lost three times in a row is a sure thing to lose in any fight.[/quote]
Fedor has lost two out of the last 3 fights by getting careless and making mistakes. Henderson will weather any storm and eventually catch Fedor making that inevitable mistake. Just like he did the first time.
Nothing about that fight gave me any reason to believe a rematch would go any differently.
We all have to come to terms with these things some day. Just as i had to face the facts about Cro Cop when he started his decline, you have to face the facts about fedor. He is past his prime/cant hang with consistently good competition.
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened.
He would still steamroll thorough 95% of the UFC HW division, i mean really? Morecraft, Struve and Mittrione? no thanks.
Well, it seems like Fedor is facing no more top competition ever again no matter what (unless they set up a match with Reem? Like thats more likely to happen…), apparently DFW just cut him.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
He would still steamroll thorough 95% of the UFC HW division, i mean really? Morecraft, Struve and Mittrione? no thanks.[/quote]
He would never be a UFC champ though, i fear he’d turn into a gatekeeper much the same way randy couture did at LHW recently.
[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Well, it seems like Fedor is facing no more top competition ever again no matter what (unless they set up a match with Reem? Like thats more likely to happen…), apparently DFW just cut him.[/quote]
Cant really blame them for cutting him. Not that people still wouldnt be intrigued to see him fight, but a guy loses a lot of marketability after dropping 3 in a row, and now Dana finally gets his last laugh after Fedor turned down UFC contracts a couple years ago.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened. [/quote]
If you agree that he’s past his prime and that now the holes in his game can be exposed where they once couldn’t then how is that the game passing him by? That is him getting old. Henderson still seems to be doing pretty damn well despite being the exact same fighter he’s always been, and he wasn’t near as dominant as Fedor, so what that shows me is age isn’t catching up with him as quickly.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened. [/quote]
If you agree that he’s past his prime and that now the holes in his game can be exposed where they once couldn’t then how is that the game passing him by? That is him getting old. Henderson still seems to be doing pretty damn well despite being the exact same fighter he’s always been, and he wasn’t near as dominant as Fedor, so what that shows me is age isn’t catching up with him as quickly.
[/quote]
Because as fedor begins facing more complete fighters who ARE at the top of their game, thats when he starts losing. And while i do think Fedor’s age has some effect on this, i dont think he declined all that much from his former self. Ive been saying for years that Fedor hasnt been tested consistently enough to say he’s the greatest HW in the world, and now he has been tested.
There’s no way for me to prove that the game has evolved at a faster rate than Fedor has, just as there’s no way you can prove to me that its simply due to age. So in that respect, we will likely have to agree to disagree. However, Fedor has fought some of the best competition of his career lately, guys he has never faced before, and the results speak for themselves.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened. [/quote]
If you agree that he’s past his prime and that now the holes in his game can be exposed where they once couldn’t then how is that the game passing him by? That is him getting old. Henderson still seems to be doing pretty damn well despite being the exact same fighter he’s always been, and he wasn’t near as dominant as Fedor, so what that shows me is age isn’t catching up with him as quickly.
[/quote]
Because as fedor begins facing more complete fighters who ARE at the top of their game, thats when he starts losing. And while i do think Fedor’s age has some effect on this, i dont think he declined all that much from his former self. Ive been saying for years that Fedor hasnt been tested consistently enough to say he’s the greatest HW in the world, and now he has been tested.
There’s no way for me to prove that the game has evolved at a faster rate than Fedor has, just as there’s no way you can prove to me that its simply due to age. So in that respect, we will likely have to agree to disagree. However, Fedor has fought some of the best competition of his career lately, guys he has never faced before, and the results speak for themselves.
[/quote]
I won’t agree to disagree. What you’re saying makes no sense. Fedor fought everyone at the top of their game in PRIDE when the UFC’s HW division was shit and he beat them all. Once again, Dan Henderson is THE EXACT same fighter he’s always been yet he’s still able to win, and he was never nearly as dominant as Fedor. All that shows is Fedor’s age is catching up with him all at once instead of slowly declining. How you don’t understand this is beyond me.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I won’t agree to disagree. What you’re saying makes no sense. Fedor fought everyone at the top of their game in PRIDE when the UFC’s HW division was shit and he beat them all. Once again, Dan Henderson is THE EXACT same fighter he’s always been yet he’s still able to win, and he was never nearly as dominant as Fedor. All that shows is Fedor’s age is catching up with him all at once instead of slowly declining. How you don’t understand this is beyond me.[/quote]
I tend to agree with this WhiteFlash. One thing I will add is that Henderson is a very good wrestler with a hard punch, and that is the type of fighter that has always given Fedor trouble. Fujita, Coleman, Randleman, evan Lindland all did fairly well against Fedor. Granted Henderson is smaller, but he is the most well rounded and best striker of the elite wrestlers Fedor has faced. He tends to get in bad positions and then gut/skill his way out, but Hendo is a finisher. Honestly, I thought this was an awful match up for him. It was a bad style risk, and even if Fedor won he is beating an oversized 185 pounder. I like Fedor’s chances in a rematch with Nog or even Werdum rather than Hendo.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened. [/quote]
If you agree that he’s past his prime and that now the holes in his game can be exposed where they once couldn’t then how is that the game passing him by? That is him getting old. Henderson still seems to be doing pretty damn well despite being the exact same fighter he’s always been, and he wasn’t near as dominant as Fedor, so what that shows me is age isn’t catching up with him as quickly.
[/quote]
Because as fedor begins facing more complete fighters who ARE at the top of their game, thats when he starts losing. And while i do think Fedor’s age has some effect on this, i dont think he declined all that much from his former self. Ive been saying for years that Fedor hasnt been tested consistently enough to say he’s the greatest HW in the world, and now he has been tested.
There’s no way for me to prove that the game has evolved at a faster rate than Fedor has, just as there’s no way you can prove to me that its simply due to age. So in that respect, we will likely have to agree to disagree. However, Fedor has fought some of the best competition of his career lately, guys he has never faced before, and the results speak for themselves.
[/quote]
I won’t agree to disagree. What you’re saying makes no sense. Fedor fought everyone at the top of their game in PRIDE when the UFC’s HW division was shit and he beat them all. Once again, Dan Henderson is THE EXACT same fighter he’s always been yet he’s still able to win, and he was never nearly as dominant as Fedor. All that shows is Fedor’s age is catching up with him all at once instead of slowly declining. How you don’t understand this is beyond me.[/quote]
Stylistically, i would have picked Henderson to win this fight anyway.
At the time Fedor was on top, sure the UFC HW division was weak. But even a prime fedor never fought competition like Cain Velasquez, JDS, Dan Henderson, or Antonio Silva. Theres nothing that makes me think that 3 years ago Fedor could have still won those fights. The only guys Fedor has fought that could be put on par with the fighters i just mentioned are Cro Cop and Nog. And that is assuming that age catching up with them is the issue they have faced since coming over to the U.S.
The bottom line is, the most impressive thing about his record is the win streak he was on. He did not consistently face elite level competition. Hell, until his last 3 fights he hadnt faced a top heavy since 2005.
Get over it, he was good, but never as good as everyone wanted to believe.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened. [/quote]
If you agree that he’s past his prime and that now the holes in his game can be exposed where they once couldn’t then how is that the game passing him by? That is him getting old. Henderson still seems to be doing pretty damn well despite being the exact same fighter he’s always been, and he wasn’t near as dominant as Fedor, so what that shows me is age isn’t catching up with him as quickly.
[/quote]
Because as fedor begins facing more complete fighters who ARE at the top of their game, thats when he starts losing. And while i do think Fedor’s age has some effect on this, i dont think he declined all that much from his former self. Ive been saying for years that Fedor hasnt been tested consistently enough to say he’s the greatest HW in the world, and now he has been tested.
There’s no way for me to prove that the game has evolved at a faster rate than Fedor has, just as there’s no way you can prove to me that its simply due to age. So in that respect, we will likely have to agree to disagree. However, Fedor has fought some of the best competition of his career lately, guys he has never faced before, and the results speak for themselves.
[/quote]
I won’t agree to disagree. What you’re saying makes no sense. Fedor fought everyone at the top of their game in PRIDE when the UFC’s HW division was shit and he beat them all. Once again, Dan Henderson is THE EXACT same fighter he’s always been yet he’s still able to win, and he was never nearly as dominant as Fedor. All that shows is Fedor’s age is catching up with him all at once instead of slowly declining. How you don’t understand this is beyond me.[/quote]
Stylistically, i would have picked Henderson to win this fight anyway.
At the time Fedor was on top, sure the UFC HW division was weak. But even a prime fedor never fought competition like Cain Velasquez, JDS, Dan Henderson, or Antonio Silva. Theres nothing that makes me think that 3 years ago Fedor could have still won those fights. The only guys Fedor has fought that could be put on par with the fighters i just mentioned are Cro Cop and Nog. And that is assuming that age catching up with them is the issue they have faced since coming over to the U.S.
The bottom line is, the most impressive thing about his record is the win streak he was on. He did not consistently face elite level competition. Hell, until his last 3 fights he hadnt faced a top heavy since 2005.
Get over it, he was good, but never as good as everyone wanted to believe.
[/quote]
Wow. EVERY FIGHTER of that era said Fedor was basically unstoppable, and he proved it for a fucking decade. Of course you would’ve picked Hendo to win this anyway… Did you really just compare Antonio Silva to Cro Cop and Nog? Dude, you need to go back and do a whole lot of reading and watching a whole lot of footage before you keep spouting off nonsense. You’re coming across as a UFC fanboy with no sense of history.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I won’t agree to disagree. What you’re saying makes no sense. Fedor fought everyone at the top of their game in PRIDE when the UFC’s HW division was shit and he beat them all. Once again, Dan Henderson is THE EXACT same fighter he’s always been yet he’s still able to win, and he was never nearly as dominant as Fedor. All that shows is Fedor’s age is catching up with him all at once instead of slowly declining. How you don’t understand this is beyond me.[/quote]
I tend to agree with this WhiteFlash. One thing I will add is that Henderson is a very good wrestler with a hard punch, and that is the type of fighter that has always given Fedor trouble. Fujita, Coleman, Randleman, evan Lindland all did fairly well against Fedor. Granted Henderson is smaller, but he is the most well rounded and best striker of the elite wrestlers Fedor has faced. He tends to get in bad positions and then gut/skill his way out, but Hendo is a finisher. Honestly, I thought this was an awful match up for him. It was a bad style risk, and even if Fedor won he is beating an oversized 185 pounder. I like Fedor’s chances in a rematch with Nog or even Werdum rather than Hendo.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
I’ll agree with this. And, I don’t want what I’m saying to come off as a diss to Henderson 'cause he’s probably one of my 5 favorite guys to watch and his accomplishments speak for themselves. But, having some kid act like this outcome would’ve happened no matter when they fought is regoddamndiculous.
The way he speaks sounds ilke Fedor record is all padded like Jason Reinhardt’s…
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
I agree, Fedor stood and threw. Where once he had the ability to drag guys to the floor and the physical and technical ability to threaten in all areas, he’s become somewhat one dimensional now.
I’m not decided on whether it’s the game passing him by, or him regressing, but I’d wager it’s both.
He’s not top 5 anymore. Accept it. It’s not like he doesn’t have a legacy, lol.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with “the game passing him by”, it has to do with him getting old. Same thing happened with Cro Cop. There’s a reason fighters don’t have an old timers league.[/quote]
I have to go with Rundymc on this one. I do think Fedor is obviously past his prime, and while i wouldnt necessarily say the game as a whole is passing him by, i do think that as he fights more complete/elite fighters, the holes in his game are exposed. Ive been saying for years that Fedor will have trouble once he comes to the U.S. and starts consistently fighting the high level competition over here, and that is what has happened. [/quote]
If you agree that he’s past his prime and that now the holes in his game can be exposed where they once couldn’t then how is that the game passing him by? That is him getting old. Henderson still seems to be doing pretty damn well despite being the exact same fighter he’s always been, and he wasn’t near as dominant as Fedor, so what that shows me is age isn’t catching up with him as quickly.
[/quote]
Because as fedor begins facing more complete fighters who ARE at the top of their game, thats when he starts losing. And while i do think Fedor’s age has some effect on this, i dont think he declined all that much from his former self. Ive been saying for years that Fedor hasnt been tested consistently enough to say he’s the greatest HW in the world, and now he has been tested.
There’s no way for me to prove that the game has evolved at a faster rate than Fedor has, just as there’s no way you can prove to me that its simply due to age. So in that respect, we will likely have to agree to disagree. However, Fedor has fought some of the best competition of his career lately, guys he has never faced before, and the results speak for themselves.
[/quote]
I won’t agree to disagree. What you’re saying makes no sense. Fedor fought everyone at the top of their game in PRIDE when the UFC’s HW division was shit and he beat them all. Once again, Dan Henderson is THE EXACT same fighter he’s always been yet he’s still able to win, and he was never nearly as dominant as Fedor. All that shows is Fedor’s age is catching up with him all at once instead of slowly declining. How you don’t understand this is beyond me.[/quote]
Stylistically, i would have picked Henderson to win this fight anyway.
At the time Fedor was on top, sure the UFC HW division was weak. But even a prime fedor never fought competition like Cain Velasquez, JDS, Dan Henderson, or Antonio Silva. Theres nothing that makes me think that 3 years ago Fedor could have still won those fights. The only guys Fedor has fought that could be put on par with the fighters i just mentioned are Cro Cop and Nog. And that is assuming that age catching up with them is the issue they have faced since coming over to the U.S.
The bottom line is, the most impressive thing about his record is the win streak he was on. He did not consistently face elite level competition. Hell, until his last 3 fights he hadnt faced a top heavy since 2005.
Get over it, he was good, but never as good as everyone wanted to believe.
[/quote]
Wow. EVERY FIGHTER of that era said Fedor was basically unstoppable, and he proved it for a fucking decade. Of course you would’ve picked Hendo to win this anyway… Did you really just compare Antonio Silva to Cro Cop and Nog? Dude, you need to go back and do a whole lot of reading and watching a whole lot of footage before you keep spouting off nonsense. You’re coming across as a UFC fanboy with no sense of history.[/quote]
Key words: OF THE ERA. The fighters of that era across every weight class dont stand up to the fighters of todays era. I am far from a UFC fanboy, ive been following the sport religiously for about 7 years, and have done my research to know what went on before i started watching.
Look at the guys that Fedor beat. I shouldnt even have to explain anything about the guys he’s fought since 2006. And before that we have Matt Lindland, Mark Coleman, Mark Hunt, Cro Cop, Nog, Randleman, Goodridge, Herring, and thats not including all the C list fighters he fought in between. Give me a fucking break. These fighters IN THEIR PRIME do not stack up to todays fighters, except for Nog and CC.
You said it yourself, everyone said he was dominating the fighters OF THAT ERA, and thats why the game has passed him by, at least to some extent. because the fighters of that era look like a who’s who of B list fighters compared to today’s competition.
We will never know how a pride era Fedor would fare against today’s competition, but i still maintain that todays fighters are too evolved for him to make that kind of run against.
Also, dont act like putting Antonio Silva’s name in the same line as Cro Cop and Nog is such an atrocity. Obviously you have an under-appreciation for his skills. The guy is certainly a premier HW and he will very likely one day have a record as impressive as either of the aforementioned pride fighters.
Let’s also not forget that Cro Cop and Nog were both still considered to be in their prime RIGHT before coming to the UFC in 2007. Now i’ll be the first too admit that neither man is the same fighter they once were today, and this is especially painful to admit since Cro Cop is my favorite all time fighter, but i dont think that age caught up to them in the span of 1 year…
I will make it simple for you:
Fedor from PRIDE age would O B L I T E R A T E every HW UFC has today.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
I will make it simple for you:
Fedor from PRIDE age would O B L I T E R A T E every HW UFC has today.[/quote]
Obliterate may be too strong. I am going to need to see Cain look bad at some point before I assume someone is better. I am not saying he is anywhere near as proven as Fedor was, but he has looked great in every fight I have seen him in.
Regards,
Robert A