Overconsumption of Protein on High Cals

Nutrition
1

I’m trying to bulk (currently 162 at 5’9"). I’ve gained 1lb in the past month at 4000 day/training day, 3300 on off days. I’ve recently upped it to 4500 a day, 3500 on off days.

Macro breakdown comes down to about 40-45% carb, 30% protein, 25-30% fats (on training days). What I’m asking about is the high protein intake. It comes out to over 2g/lb of bodyweight…a bit excessive. I know that Waterbury and Thibs have both stated that 1.25-1.5 should be the limit and that protein can be used as fuel. Should I just up the other macros and forgo the protein at each meal? I’m eating 8 meals/day plus snacking on almonds and the counted protein is inclusive of meats, whey, milk, oats, vegies, legumes, nuts, eggs, cottage cheese.

I feel like one of those guys we love to hate by asking this…you know who I’m talking about.

2

I’ve seen Thibs tell people to stop thinking in terms of calories, and instead recommend X g / lb body weight for each macro. When I use this approach, I don’t hit anywhere near 3000 kcals (more like 1900-2000) and I’m 150 lbs at 5’7, wanting to gain mass.

That’s what gets confusing, honestly. I see more authors recommending 1.5-2.0 g /lb protein intake, then there’s an article from CW saying that 1 g /lb is plenty. Who is right? Is it how many % of caloric intake from a macro that determines what the body might prefer for fuel, or is it an actual rate limit (X g /lb) ?

Personally, I would think that as long as the majority energy intake came from fats - 40% or higher - that the body would adapt to using that macro for fuel. For instance, I would think that a macro breakdown of 30/10/50 (p/c/f) would be good for someone with lots of bodyfat and little muscle mass to gain LBM while having their body use mostly fat for fuel in the process.

I could be completely wrong since I’m new to the ‘game.’ Someone enlighten me, and I’m not one to simply ask questions without doing some reading on my own. I ask because there is conflicting information out there.

3

It really breaks down to what works for you. This might sound ambigous but if I were to undertake such a bulk my calories would be mainly comming from protein and healthy fats. My break down would be around 50% protein 25% fats and 25%carbs. Thats 562.5grams of protein and 281.25 grams of carbs. That puts me at 2.6grams of protein per pound of bodyweight with the amount of calories you’re consuming. I would blow up and be Sumo ready if I were to consume 560grams of carbs.

4

Just a general guideline, the more calories you eat, the less protein you need, relatively. There’s a variety of opinion of what the “Right” amount is, but if you’re looking to gain, and you’re at 2g/lb already, I would add carbs and/or fat. Btw, gaining one pound is within your daily fluxuation, so consider 4000/3300 calories a day your maintenance level, and build from there.

5

Check out the latest Poliquin article, he goes into some detail on this and generally recommends 2g/lb.

I’d check your training.On a tried and true program you should be gaining a lot with that much protein, calories and meal frequency.

6

[quote]Trenchant wrote:
I’m trying to bulk (currently 162 at 5’9"). I’ve gained 1lb in the past month at 4000 day/training day, 3300 on off days. I’ve recently upped it to 4500 a day, 3500 on off days.

Macro breakdown comes down to about 40-45% carb, 30% protein, 25-30% fats (on training days). What I’m asking about is the high protein intake. It comes out to over 2g/lb of bodyweight…a bit excessive. I know that Waterbury and Thibs have both stated that 1.25-1.5 should be the limit and that protein can be used as fuel. Should I just up the other macros and forgo the protein at each meal? I’m eating 8 meals/day plus snacking on almonds and the counted protein is inclusive of meats, whey, milk, oats, vegies, legumes, nuts, eggs, cottage cheese.

I feel like one of those guys we love to hate by asking this…you know who I’m talking about.[/quote]

If you only gained 1lbs in an entire month, what makes you think you are eating “high cals”? You can’t even accurately track a one pound gain in body weight since your body weight fluctuates all day long.

CALORIES are your primary concern, not protein. You are making this too complicated by even worrying about some EXACT number to shoot for while completely missing the bigger picture…that you should have made more progress than that.

7

I was at 4,000 cals/day for a few weeks, gained nothing. Thought it could be a multiple of other factors.

I upped it to 4500-4700/day and 1 lb/wk each week there after :wink:

I also, don’t cut calories on “off” days. My body is repairing. I want to give it all the nutrients it needs to do so.

They say you grow when you’re not in the gym, yet you’re supposed to eat less?

8

I doubt you are getting the cals you think you are. I had a fast metabolism back in the day and the only way I could gain weight was to eat until it hurts.

9

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
<<< I also, don’t cut calories on “off” days. My body is repairing. I want to give it all the nutrients it needs to do so.

They say you grow when you’re not in the gym, yet you’re supposed to eat less?[/quote]

When attempting to gain I couldn’t agree with this more. Unless you train once every 2 weeks you are in a CONSTANT state of repair and recovery. You may need those calories even more on off days.

I also agree with PX that anything less than a consistent several pound move in scale weight over weeks means practically nothing. Weigh yourself at the same time every day, like first thing in the morning and when you have a few to several pounds more all the time and you’re not much or even no fatter than you’re making gains. I can fluctuate 5 pounds from morning to afternoon, it tells me nothing.

People don’t like hearing this, but in my view it’s better to OVERDO the food until you KNOW you’re growing and scale back if need be than to trickle up for months and wasting all your work in the meantime.

10

Well I’ve been weighing in each morning before eating, so I believe that its without too many variables.

I have the digital scale that I’ve really been using a lot during this past month and a half to ensure that I’m eating this much. Believe me, I am eating till it hurts and spooning down the flax/olive oil, too.

I am in a constant state of soreness (doing OVT) and my strength has been steadily increasing on most lifts.

I’ll try eating more on off days and paying attention less to the grams of protein.

Apologize for the late response, but I’m an intern at the Naval Undersea Warfare Center - I’m either away from the computer or on secure lines.

11

[quote]Trenchant wrote:
Well I’ve been weighing in each morning before eating, so I believe that its without too many variables.

I have the digital scale that I’ve really been using a lot during this past month and a half to ensure that I’m eating this much. Believe me, I am eating till it hurts and spooning down the flax/olive oil, too.

I am in a constant state of soreness (doing OVT) and my strength has been steadily increasing on most lifts.

I’ll try eating more on off days and paying attention less to the grams of protein.

Apologize for the late response, but I’m an intern at the Naval Undersea Warfare Center - I’m either away from the computer or on secure lines.

[/quote]

That is specifically why trying to “eat clean” at the expense of eating enough when you have a fast metabolism needs to be put to sleep.

12

I’d say no amount of protein is excessive. It might be more convenient to switch to fat though. It will make very little difference either way.

Try counting your total cals for one day. I believe you that you are eating until it hurts, but even that sometimes isn’t enough. You may have to get creative with high calorie foods such as cream.

13

I can eat clean with preparation…I think I just need to eat more now.

As for the counting, I mentioned I’m using the scale and I’m sure of the amount of calories I’m eating.

Thanks for the responses

14

You can only process so much of anything, period. You have to create the optimim metabolic environment for your given goals.
I don’t care if you’re a walking pharmacy like most BB’ers, you just aren’t going to fully utilize supraphysiological amounts of protein, i.e. 400g+!

I’m certainly no expert, but at 162lbs, i’d suggest at least 200g+ of QUALITY protein, and adjust upwards from there. If you feel bloated, lethargic, loose bowels, etc. I’d add some fiber supplementation such as Benefiber or Metamucil, digestive enzymes, ginger root, etc and re-evaluate.

I’ve never been fond of becoming a fatass in the process of bulking, so I’d recommend roughly 250g protein, 250g carbs, and 125g fat, which is roughly 3125 kcal. I’d cautiously adjust upwards as necessary. Good luck.

15

Looks like you should up the carbs, sounds like your getting plenty of protein. Sometimes high of a protein ratio just won’t pack on weight, may even make you lose it.

There was another bodybuilding competitor on here who after bulking stated that he went on a cut to lose around 40lbs, and ate 500 grams of protein a day I believe. Another article by Thib, showed he was eating 500g of protein a day while trying to cut fat.

So basically your on a cut diet, but your eating enough not to cut so you may be gaining weight just slowly.

If you’ve been sore for the entire month, you may want to take a week off, or switch up your routine for a 2 weeks, to let your body recover and hopefully overcompensate the muscle you’ve broken down over the last month.

16

[quote]Radjxf wrote:
You can only process so much of anything, period. You have to create the optimim metabolic environment for your given goals.
I don’t care if you’re a walking pharmacy like most BB’ers, you just aren’t going to fully utilize supraphysiological amounts of protein, i.e. 400g+!

I’m certainly no expert, but at 162lbs, i’d suggest at least 200g+ of QUALITY protein, and adjust upwards from there. If you feel bloated, lethargic, loose bowels, etc. I’d add some fiber supplementation such as Benefiber or Metamucil, digestive enzymes, ginger root, etc and re-evaluate.

I’ve never been fond of becoming a fatass in the process of bulking, so I’d recommend roughly 250g protein, 250g carbs, and 125g fat, which is roughly 3125 kcal. I’d cautiously adjust upwards as necessary. Good luck.
[/quote]

I’ve was at 3500 for about 8 months and stayed at around 9-10% (could still see top 4 abs)…so the 3125 is certainly not going to cut it.

I get about 4-5 servings of meat a day, cottage cheese 1x a day, and whey 2x a day (around lifting). I’d most definately loose on that diet.

As for the week off, I’ll see how eating more on the off days goes for a couple weeks. I had just take a deloading week about 6 weeks ago and I usually don’t take one for at least 12 weeks (which is usually when I start to feel lethargic).

Thanks.

17

[quote]Trenchant wrote:
Radjxf wrote:
You can only process so much of anything, period. You have to create the optimim metabolic environment for your given goals.
I don’t care if you’re a walking pharmacy like most BB’ers, you just aren’t going to fully utilize supraphysiological amounts of protein, i.e. 400g+!

I’m certainly no expert, but at 162lbs, i’d suggest at least 200g+ of QUALITY protein, and adjust upwards from there. If you feel bloated, lethargic, loose bowels, etc. I’d add some fiber supplementation such as Benefiber or Metamucil, digestive enzymes, ginger root, etc and re-evaluate.

I’ve never been fond of becoming a fatass in the process of bulking, so I’d recommend roughly 250g protein, 250g carbs, and 125g fat, which is roughly 3125 kcal. I’d cautiously adjust upwards as necessary. Good luck.

I’ve was at 3500 for about 8 months and stayed at around 9-10% (could still see top 4 abs)…so the 3125 is certainly not going to cut it.

I get about 4-5 servings of meat a day, cottage cheese 1x a day, and whey 2x a day (around lifting). I’d most definately loose on that diet.

As for the week off, I’ll see how eating more on the off days goes for a couple weeks. I had just take a deloading week about 6 weeks ago and I usually don’t take one for at least 12 weeks (which is usually when I start to feel lethargic).

Thanks.
[/quote]

I was assuming that an individual that’s only 162lbs and trying to “bulk” would obviously reduce other extraneous energy output.
Are you engaging in a lot of physical activity as well? Cardio, sports, manual labor job, etc?
If not, then perhaps you do indeed have a raging metabolism that requires many more calories than the rest of us.
Eons ago, when I was your age/size, my best gaining template was around 3500-4000 cal, training with weights 3-4x/week, very basic compound movements, and minimal to no cardio. It was the only way I could efficiently gain lean mass.