My bad. I was riffing on the 20 guys in a mall theme. Specifically about how the mall scenario was inefficient if the desire is to cause major damage with a minimum amount of personnel and resources. No, not our biggest immediate threat. Definitely not. But a very real possibility. [/quote]
My bad too. I’m just particularly touchy to the terrorist thinig these days. I live in an area who cheers martial law and total police state any time something bad happens. Scares the shit out of me…
I’m GLAD that is scares the shit out of you It SHOULD scare the shit out of everyone. It sure scares me.
We had some “folks” milling around our state reservoir a while ago. Got swept under the rug, and after 911 had national guard posted and roaming the forest for months. I think your fear is shared.
[/quote]
I live not far from Toledo, OH. Our recent water issues opened the eyes of a few. Sadly, many folks have already closed their eyes and went back to sleep. I think one of the saddest things about our country is it’s very short memory. The vast majority live in willful ignorance.
My bad. I was riffing on the 20 guys in a mall theme. Specifically about how the mall scenario was inefficient if the desire is to cause major damage with a minimum amount of personnel and resources. No, not our biggest immediate threat. Definitely not. But a very real possibility. [/quote]
My bad too. I’m just particularly touchy to the terrorist thinig these days. I live in an area who cheers martial law and total police state any time something bad happens. Scares the shit out of me…
I’m GLAD that is scares the shit out of you It SHOULD scare the shit out of everyone. It sure scares me.
We had some “folks” milling around our state reservoir a while ago. Got swept under the rug, and after 911 had national guard posted and roaming the forest for months. I think your fear is shared.
[/quote]
I live not far from Toledo, OH. Our recent water issues opened the eyes of a few. Sadly, many folks have already closed their eyes and went back to sleep. I think one of the saddest things about our country is it’s very short memory. The vast majority live in willful ignorance.
[/quote]
Part of me is okay with that to a degree, because one of the alternatives is a police state and living in constant fear…
My bad. I was riffing on the 20 guys in a mall theme. Specifically about how the mall scenario was inefficient if the desire is to cause major damage with a minimum amount of personnel and resources. No, not our biggest immediate threat. Definitely not. But a very real possibility. [/quote]
My bad too. I’m just particularly touchy to the terrorist thinig these days. I live in an area who cheers martial law and total police state any time something bad happens. Scares the shit out of me…
I’m GLAD that is scares the shit out of you It SHOULD scare the shit out of everyone. It sure scares me.
We had some “folks” milling around our state reservoir a while ago. Got swept under the rug, and after 911 had national guard posted and roaming the forest for months. I think your fear is shared.
[/quote]
I live not far from Toledo, OH. Our recent water issues opened the eyes of a few. Sadly, many folks have already closed their eyes and went back to sleep. I think one of the saddest things about our country is it’s very short memory. The vast majority live in willful ignorance.
[/quote]
Part of me is okay with that to a degree, because one of the alternatives is a police state and living in constant fear…[/quote]
I disagree. It would be fairly easy for a terror cell to legally obtain a dozen rifles and sidearms, plus their respective accessories. [/quote]
This is just not true. Not at all.
You’re talking faking identities, finding a gun shop that will sell this arsenal to people who “look like terrorist” (lmao) and thousands and thousands of dollars. Not to mention coordination, communication, etc etc etc.
Homegrown cell? Maybe. Foreign born cell? Nope… Not at all.
Again, you’re assuming federal laws don’t apply, and local shops are just going to sell an arsenal to random individuals they don’t know in that capacity. Leeland Ye maybe, but not your LGS. [/quote]
Do you honestly believe that Jonny Jihad is going to walk into a gun shop sporting a shemagh and a prodigious beard and request a dozen high capacity semiautomatic rifles and a pallet of ammo? A patient cell could surreptitiously and legally build an arsenal over time. Such an operation would be months, if not years, in the making. Funding is not an issue. Tens of thousands of dollars is a drop in the bucket that would yield huge gains for relatively little investment, especially for an organization with the wherewithal of ISIS.
Because I look at fact patterns. Deranged mental cases shoot up theaters, loonytoon cowards shoot little kids. People looking for TERROR use bombs.
Why? I don’t fucking know, maybe it has to do with the exponentially bigger boom and fear effect. [/quote]
Abstract generalizations provide little analytical utility. Empirical data is required. Several civilian centric terrorist groups have extensive experience with small arms and small unit tactics. They aren’t limited to improvised explosive devices.
Do you honestly believe that Jonny Jihad is going to walk into a gun shop sporting a shemagh and a prodigious beard and request a dozen high capacity semiautomatic rifles and a pallet of ammo? [/quote]
Anyone who doesn’t buy FTF has to pass a background check. If you or any one doesn’t think there is a database listing every firearm you’ve bought is laughably stupid. I’d venture to guess 12+ rifles with a pistol grip being bought by anyone other than a licensed local dealer with a last name that isn’t smith is about to have their “communications monitored”.
So outside of straw purchase, or buying every standard capacity magazine (Because the drums jam a lot and weigh an awful lot for tactical movement) and rifle on Craig’s List they can find, this isn’t nearly as easy as getting the materials to make the homemade bombs we’ve seen in the States the last couple decades.
I just have a hard time believing we at TNation are that much smarter than anyone else and this is the first anyone’s thought of this.
Abstract generalizations provide little analytical utility.[/quote]
Then you might want to stop talking about the “gathering of small arms” then?
[quote] Empirical data is required. Several civilian centric terrorist groups have extensive experience with small arms and small unit tactics. They aren’t limited to improvised explosive devices.
[/quote]
And again, for like the 14th time now, in the STATES our biggest immediate threat seems to continue to be fucking bombs, not a group of Jonny Rambo. As much as you’d love it to be true so you could strip the people of their firearms, it isn’t.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
As much as you’d love it to be true so you could strip the people of their firearms, it isn’t.
[/quote]
Whoa. Ok. I see why your panties are in a bunch over this. Sorry, I was missing your point. I just disagree that the fact that the threat is plausible would justify further encroachment into the 2nd.
Do you honestly believe that Jonny Jihad is going to walk into a gun shop sporting a shemagh and a prodigious beard and request a dozen high capacity semiautomatic rifles…[/quote]
Dude, not all terrorists are Muslims. Why do you keep bashing Muslims man? Just tone it down okay?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
As much as you’d love it to be true so you could strip the people of their firearms, it isn’t.
[/quote]
Whoa. Ok. I see why your panties are in a bunch over this. Sorry, I was missing your point. I just disagree that the fact that the threat is plausible would justify further encroachment into the 2nd. [/quote]
That is part of it for sure. But my overall point is:
If this small arms fire is so easy, and so effective and devastating, why the fuck do they keep using bombs?
Do you honestly believe that Jonny Jihad is going to walk into a gun shop sporting a shemagh and a prodigious beard and request a dozen high capacity semiautomatic rifles and a pallet of ammo? [/quote]
Anyone who doesn’t buy FTF has to pass a background check. If you or any one doesn’t think there is a database listing every firearm you’ve bought is laughably stupid. I’d venture to guess 12+ rifles with a pistol grip being bought by anyone other than a licensed local dealer with a last name that isn’t smith is about to have their “communications monitored”.
So outside of straw purchase, or buying every standard capacity magazine (Because the drums jam a lot and weigh an awful lot for tactical movement) and rifle on Craig’s List they can find, this isn’t nearly as easy as getting the materials to make the homemade bombs we’ve seen in the States the last couple decades.
I just have a hard time believing we at TNation are that much smarter than anyone else and this is the first anyone’s thought of this.
So either:
Bombs are more effective/preferred
This isn’t as easy as you’ve been lead to believe
People have been stopped in their tracks. [/quote]
I know, I know, Wikipedia. It’s a straightforward format and provides citations at least.
From a quantitative standpoint, IEDs lacking military grade explosives weren’t terribly effective, as demonstrated in the above case study. Explosives are a modus operandi for terrorists, but they have proved to be unreliable. Surely anyone wanting to bring militant jihadists to American soil has observed the efficacy of lone gunmen carrying out mass shootings. How much more effective would a dozen, well trained individuals operating as a small unit be?
It’s less difficult than you’ve been led to believe. You’re vastly underestimating the resourcefulness and operational capabilities of FTOs.
Yes, the intelligence community has done an exemplary job in preventing attacks on the homeland post 9/11. This success will incentivize innovation, however.
Seriously though, the hatred and outrage expressed towards snackbars is misplaced. They don’t have moral agency. They’re just like sharks. The real enemy are the ruling class and academia who are letting the sharks into the tank. They’re the ones I hate; quite literally.
Abstract generalizations provide little analytical utility.[/quote]
Then you might want to stop talking about the “gathering of small arms” then?
[quote] Empirical data is required. Several civilian centric terrorist groups have extensive experience with small arms and small unit tactics. They aren’t limited to improvised explosive devices.
[/quote]
And again, for like the 14th time now, in the STATES our biggest immediate threat seems to continue to be fucking bombs, not a group of Jonny Rambo. As much as you’d love it to be true so you could strip the people of their firearms, it isn’t.
[/quote]
I provided a case study illustrating how effective such an attack might be. Your position, on the other hand, has been nebulous to say the least.
Please demonstrate anywhere in this thread where I’ve advocated a modicum of firearm restrictions. I’ve expressed nothing but pro-gun sentiments in my posting history. I suppose I’m an easier target than my argument.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
As much as you’d love it to be true so you could strip the people of their firearms, it isn’t.
[/quote]
Whoa. Ok. I see why your panties are in a bunch over this. Sorry, I was missing your point. I just disagree that the fact that the threat is plausible would justify further encroachment into the 2nd. [/quote]
Do you honestly believe that Jonny Jihad is going to walk into a gun shop sporting a shemagh and a prodigious beard and request a dozen high capacity semiautomatic rifles…[/quote]
Dude, not all terrorists are Muslims. Why do you keep bashing Muslims man? Just tone it down okay?[/quote]
To be fair, I was responding to Bean’s skepticism that weapons would be sold to terror cell operatives who for some reason would be procuring their equipment while “looking like terrorists.”
Do you honestly believe that Jonny Jihad is going to walk into a gun shop sporting a shemagh and a prodigious beard and request a dozen high capacity semiautomatic rifles…[/quote]
Dude, not all terrorists are Muslims. Why do you keep bashing Muslims man? Just tone it down okay?[/quote]
To be fair, I was responding to Bean’s skepticism that weapons would be sold to terror cell operatives who for some reason would be procuring their equipment while “looking like terrorists.”[/quote]
You might want to re-read that post in case you missed the whole part where I clearly show I’m aware they wouldn’t be carrying a flag into the store.
Off topic, but did anyone see the report of the U.S. Air Marshall who was attacked by an unknown group of men in Lagos Nigeria and injected with an unknown substance?
From a quantitative standpoint, IEDs lacking military grade explosives weren’t terribly effective, as demonstrated in the above case study. Explosives are a modus operandi for terrorists, but they have proved to be unreliable. Surely anyone wanting to bring militant jihadists to American soil has observed the efficacy of lone gunmen carrying out mass shootings. How much more effective would a dozen, well trained individuals operating as a small unit be? [/quote]
Like I said in my original response to this thread. It sure seems they need the fighter capable of doing the amount of damage that would have a similar effect bombs do in the ME rather than here which results in little but a news story and more bombs dropped on their families.
Except for the two unsophisticated dolts in Boston? Where they just too dumb, or not focused enough on “small arms” to get noticed?
Please demonstrate anywhere in this thread where I’ve advocated a modicum of firearm restrictions. I’ve expressed nothing but pro-gun sentiments in my posting history.[/quote]
ummmm, I seem to remember something about surrender the monopoly of force to the state… Am I wrong here?
Your argument falls on itself. We’ve had the same basic rifles for decades, same basic procedures for getting them for decades, and people have been training for centuries… Yet they still keep using bombs. (Or jet planes that act as a bomb.)
It SHOULD scare the shit out of everyone. It sure scares me.