[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Rainjack, I think this radical left you speak of is a figment of collective, conservative imagination. The majority of Democratic voters are not leftist liberals. And as of yet, you’ve been completely unable to come up with a list of radical, liberal politicians and illustrate it by articulating their policies.
While I don’t think the Democratic leadership or most Democrats buy into what the fringe left is selling, they rarely or never speak against it.
They are more than happy to let the fringe lunatics speak for them.
The Republicans often denounce what the fringe right is saying although they may do it quietly. A good example is the White House denouncing Pat Robertsons call for assasination of Hugo Chavez.
The Democrats have to do a better job distancing themselves from the kooky left if they want my vote in a presidential election.[/quote]
The GOP NEVER denounces what the fringe right is saying.
i.e. Shiavo, Justice Sunday, Justice Sunday II, Pat Robertson, Dobson, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
The present day Democrats are more like the communist party from 50 years ago.[/quote]
Huh?
The Democrats = a failed government?
Please explain.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
The GOP NEVER denounces what the fringe right is saying.
i.e. Shiavo, Justice Sunday, Justice Sunday II, Pat Robertson, Dobson, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
[/quote]
Hell, they basically have orgasms over anything stated and then just stay quiet if it goes the wrong way.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Damici wrote:
Reddog, EVERYTHING you just said illustrates my whole freaking point. YOU feel that way about the issue. YOU feel that it’s the same as killing people in mental hospitals. YOU think it’s terminating a life. YOU think that life begins at conception. I – yes me – might even agree with you. But AT LEAST FIFTY-ONE PERCENT OF THE FREAKING POPULATION DOESN’T!! Therefore: NO LAW OUTLAWING IT!!
If 90-something percent, or maybe even 80 percent, of the population agreed with you, that would be one thing. But they don’t. As a matter of fact, more people in this country DISagree with you than agree with you. Therefore, it is not your right, or anyone else’s, to force YOUR view of things down everyone else’s throats. (And I essentially agree with your thinking on the heart of the issue)!
The massive PROBLEM that this staunch “let’s-outlaw-abortion” stance creates, as I mentioned, is that it prevents the BEST, MOST CAPABLE people, who could very ably deal with the REALLY IMPORTANT issues facing the nation (national security, war, terrorism, economy, dependence on oil, etc.) from being allowed to govern. And I’m SO fucking sick of it!!!
LET – GOD – SORT – THEM – OUT. IT’S – NOT – YOUR – LIFE/ISSUE/PROBLEM.
I agree completely. This world isn’t fopr us to force everyone to be Christians and act like one. Most Christians don’t even act like one.
[/quote]
It is always the right time to do the right thing. If you saw somebody killing an innocent person, isn’t it your responsibility to stop it? Popular opinion be damned?
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
The present day Democrats are more like the communist party from 50 years ago.
Huh?
The Democrats = a failed government?
Please explain.
[/quote]
Democrats = Redistribution of wealth, dependance on federal gov’t = similarity to communism
[quote]vroom wrote:
rainjack wrote:
vroom - I am going to side with ZAp here and say that we have managed to fuck up a decent thread. If you want to continue this pissing contest - PM me. But I’m not wasting any more of anyone else’s time on our tangent.
Zap and you are both idiots… and that is what an insult looks like, in case you are wondering.[/quote]
ROTFLMFAO!
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
It is always the right time to do the right thing. If you saw somebody killing an innocent person, isn’t it your responsibility to stop it? Popular opinion be damned?
[/quote]
This is not the same. We all agree that murdering someone walking around is wrong. Half of the country is split over whether abortions relate anywhere near the same level. That means you can’t FORCE your own opinion on someone else just because you think you’re right. That’s retarded and opens the door for other laws based on nothing but the opinion of whatever party may be occupying the most seats in government. That is wrong, no way you want to flip it.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
The present day Democrats are more like the communist party from 50 years ago.
Huh?
The Democrats = a failed government?
Please explain.
Democrats = Redistribution of wealth, dependance on federal gov’t = similarity to communism
[/quote]
What you just wrote looks even dumber typed out. Federal assistance now equals communism? May I suggest 8th grade politics…again?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
The GOP NEVER denounces what the fringe right is saying.
i.e. Shiavo, Justice Sunday, Justice Sunday II, Pat Robertson, Dobson, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
Hell, they basically have orgasms over anything stated and then just stay quiet if it goes the wrong way.[/quote]
You guys either don’t pay attention or are playing Marmadoggs intellectually dishonest game.
The White House denounced Pat Robertsons call for assassination.
Both sides play dirty politics. I won’t deny that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
The present day Democrats are more like the communist party from 50 years ago.
Huh?
The Democrats = a failed government?
Please explain.
Democrats = Redistribution of wealth, dependance on federal gov’t = similarity to communism
What you just wrote looks even dumber typed out. Federal assistance now equals communism? May I suggest 8th grade politics…again?[/quote]
No, thank you. There’s a diffence between gov’t assistance, and 3rd generation welfare families.
[quote]Damici wrote:
If 90-something percent, or maybe even 80 percent, of the population agreed with you, that would be one thing. But they don’t. As a matter of fact, more people in this country DISagree with you than agree with you. Therefore, it is not your right, or anyone else’s, to force YOUR view of things down everyone else’s throats. (And I essentially agree with your thinking on the heart of the issue)!
The massive PROBLEM that this staunch “let’s-outlaw-abortion” stance creates, as I mentioned, is that it prevents the BEST, MOST CAPABLE people, who could very ably deal with the REALLY IMPORTANT issues facing the nation (national security, war, terrorism, economy, dependence on oil, etc.) from being allowed to govern. And I’m SO fucking sick of it!!!
LET – GOD – SORT – THEM – OUT. IT’S – NOT – YOUR – LIFE/ISSUE/PROBLEM.[/quote]
You are making an excellent case for the overturning of Roe. You do know that in Roe, the court completely ripped the right to a democratic determination of the legality abortion away from the various states?
What you are suggesting is that majoritarian legislative responses to the question of abortion is the way to go - that is exactly what conservatives are suggesting is the right response.
The other thing is that your 51% is not even distributed, as there is ability to pass a ‘national’ law outlawing or permitting abortion. Any legislative response will be handled at the state level, so your 51% will be distributed differently among different thinking states - think of what CA would legislate versus MS.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Democrats = Redistribution of wealth, dependance on federal gov’t = similarity to communism
What you just wrote looks even dumber typed out. Federal assistance now equals communism? May I suggest 8th grade politics…again?[/quote]
DEPENDENCE on the gov’t for you existence is a far cry from federal assistance. May I suggest a reading comprehension coure?
-------Edit-------
I’ll probably pass you in the hall going to my spelling class.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
It is always the right time to do the right thing. If you saw somebody killing an innocent person, isn’t it your responsibility to stop it? Popular opinion be damned?
This is not the same. We all agree that murdering someone walking around is wrong. Half of the country is split over whether abortions relate anywhere near the same level. That means you can’t FORCE your own opinion on someone else just because you think you’re right. That’s retarded and opens the door for other laws based on nothing but the opinion of whatever party may be occupying the most seats in government. That is wrong, no way you want to flip it.[/quote]
If we’re talking abouot a human life, wouldn’t it be wise to err on the side of caution? Or is a woman’s convenience more important?
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
It is always the right time to do the right thing. If you saw somebody killing an innocent person, isn’t it your responsibility to stop it? Popular opinion be damned?
This is not the same. We all agree that murdering someone walking around is wrong. Half of the country is split over whether abortions relate anywhere near the same level. That means you can’t FORCE your own opinion on someone else just because you think you’re right. That’s retarded and opens the door for other laws based on nothing but the opinion of whatever party may be occupying the most seats in government. That is wrong, no way you want to flip it.
If we’re talking abouot a human life, wouldn’t it be wise to err on the side of caution? Or is a woman’s convenience more important?
[/quote]
Not a “woman’s convenience”, but the needs of the woman overtake the needs of a fetus that there is much controversy as far as being viable. Have you even considered individual cases where this would difficult to judge correctly? Do you honestly believe all abortions are done by teenagers in place of a condom? If that actually was the case, I would be shouting for a change as well…but it isn’t.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
The GOP NEVER denounces what the fringe right is saying.
i.e. Shiavo, Justice Sunday, Justice Sunday II, Pat Robertson, Dobson, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
Hell, they basically have orgasms over anything stated and then just stay quiet if it goes the wrong way.[/quote]
What has gone the wrong way such that I have gone quiet? I would hardly say that the right is quiet. But if that helps you cope - then knock yourself out.
As for marmaduke’s list - There are very few republicans that fall lock step behind all of these folks. I’ve said what I think about Hannity, and others have voiced their opinions on Rush. Pat Robertson was called on the carpet for his outburst just the other day, and I think everyone sees Coulter for the loud mouth that she is.
What cracks me up is the way the left huddles up and picks a cheerleader everytime one of them thinks they have made a point.
Even if everyone on the right worships every far right-wing pundit out there - so what? We are still the majority party, and none of the idiotic crying you do will change that.
BTW - FOx News/Opinion Dynamics Poll just realeased yesterday;
Cankles Clinton vs. Guiliani(sp) - 36-48
Cankles vs. Condi Rice - dead heat.
But that’s only for those of you the think polls mean dick.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Not a “woman’s convenience”, but the needs of the woman overtake the needs of a fetus that there is much controversy as far as being viable. Have you even considered individual cases where this would difficult to judge correctly? Do you honestly believe all abortions are done by teenagers in place of a condom? If that actually was the case, I would be shouting for a change as well…but it isn’t.
[/quote]
Yes, IMO abortion in cases of rape or incest should be legal. As the woman never had the opportunity to choose WRT having sex. Also in cases where the woman’s LIFE (not health, as commonly worded) is in danger, as trading one life for another is not the right thing to do. If the woman agreed to have sex, then she already made her choice, the baby’s life trumps her right to an abortion. What stage of life the baby is at should be irrelevent.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
What has gone the wrong way such that I have gone quiet? I would hardly say that the right is quiet. But if that helps you cope - then knock yourself out.
[/quote]
Remember these words:
That was one of the things I was referring to. You can add the misrepresentaion of specific quotes by Hannity to that list as well.
Schiavo was not mentally aware, unfortunately. I remember hearing this on FOX news being rallied behind as truth…until the truth came out.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Also in cases where the woman’s LIFE (not health, as commonly worded) is in danger, as trading one life for another is not the right thing to do. If the woman agreed to have sex, then she already made her choice, the baby’s life trumps her right to an abortion. What stage of life the baby is at should be irrelevent.
[/quote]
Then we definitely disagree. How would a baby’s life at birth (assuming complications) trump the mother’s simply because she had sex? Why does a woman lose any rights in that situation in your mind?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
The GOP NEVER denounces what the fringe right is saying.
i.e. Shiavo, Justice Sunday, Justice Sunday II, Pat Robertson, Dobson, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
Hell, they basically have orgasms over anything stated and then just stay quiet if it goes the wrong way.
You guys either don’t pay attention or are playing Marmadoggs intellectually dishonest game.
The White House denounced Pat Robertsons call for assassination.
Both sides play dirty politics. I won’t deny that.[/quote]
Please send me 3 MSM Internet links that show George Bush denouncing Pat Robertson?s call for assassination. I will settle for Cheney or Rove…
Can you give me your explanation of why Democrats = Communists?
Can you tell me how asking a question is ‘intellectually dishonest’?
I made no comments regarding this subject so
Intellectual dishonesty is no game but it sure does make you think your logical fallacies are sound arguements.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
When you say the “right to choose” what you really mean is the right to kill the fetus/baby developing inside the woman.
I hate the term “right to choose”. Abortion is such a morally repugant thing even its most vehement supporters try to hide what it is.
I do not think we should make abortion illegal but I do believe it should be a last resort.[/quote]
But it is a good way of population control. Besides, if the mother doesn’t want it, fuck it , it’s probably doomed anyway. IMO. Personally I don’t see the need for so much debate on this.