I think Sagat is making a poor argument for Rack Pulls by saying they’re a better upper back exercise even though you can’t use as much weight.
The best argument for Rack Pulls being as good as or better than Shrugs is that you can handle more weight than you can with a Shrug.
If you are doing Rack Pulls for your traps, and not for your Deadlift, then you might as well be doing them above the knee.
[/quote]
I was not trying to make an argument of which one is better. When i said i think they are the best upper back exercise i talk about hitting more than just the upper traps.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Professor X wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sagat wrote:
What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,
Why?
The usual argument: heavier weights.
I think Sagat is making a poor argument for Rack Pulls by saying they’re a better upper back exercise even though you can’t use as much weight.
The best argument for Rack Pulls being as good as or better than Shrugs is that you can handle more weight than you can with a Shrug.
If you are doing Rack Pulls for your traps, and not for your Deadlift, then you might as well be doing them above the knee.
The best upper back exercise is the one that specifically targets your traps. Nothing does that better than heavy shrugs.
You may be able to use more weight doing some other exercise, but what other exercise involves you literally shrugging the weight up?
Shrugs is the best upper back exercise?[/quote]
What do you think comprises your “upper back”? Between shrugs and rows of various angles, there isn’t much else for your upper back. I know people around here get off on acting like deadlifts are the GOD of all weight lifting movements…but let’s see pictures of some of you with such awesome trap development from deadlifts alone.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Professor X wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sagat wrote:
What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,
Why?
The usual argument: heavier weights.
I think Sagat is making a poor argument for Rack Pulls by saying they’re a better upper back exercise even though you can’t use as much weight.
The best argument for Rack Pulls being as good as or better than Shrugs is that you can handle more weight than you can with a Shrug.
If you are doing Rack Pulls for your traps, and not for your Deadlift, then you might as well be doing them above the knee.
The best upper back exercise is the one that specifically targets your traps. Nothing does that better than heavy shrugs.
You may be able to use more weight doing some other exercise, but what other exercise involves you literally shrugging the weight up?
Shrugs is the best upper back exercise?[/quote]
This thread is about Shrugs, not about “the best exercise for overall upper back development”. Shrugs work your traps, therefore we are talking about what works the traps the best - and that’s shrugs.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
Professor X wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sagat wrote:
What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,
Why?
The usual argument: heavier weights.
I think Sagat is making a poor argument for Rack Pulls by saying they’re a better upper back exercise even though you can’t use as much weight.
The best argument for Rack Pulls being as good as or better than Shrugs is that you can handle more weight than you can with a Shrug.
If you are doing Rack Pulls for your traps, and not for your Deadlift, then you might as well be doing them above the knee.
The best upper back exercise is the one that specifically targets your traps. Nothing does that better than heavy shrugs.
You may be able to use more weight doing some other exercise, but what other exercise involves you literally shrugging the weight up?
Shrugs is the best upper back exercise?
What do you think comprises your “upper back”? Between shrugs and rows of various angles, there isn’t much else for your upper back. I know people around here get off on acting like deadlifts are the GOD of all weight lifting movements…but let’s see pictures of some of you with such awesome trap development from deadlifts alone.[/quote]
I was gonna say that Pull-ups were the best, but whatever.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
as far as racks and shrugs are related, i dont think its very easy to do shrugs after a set of racks. not even because of how fatigued your traps are, but because of how shot your grip is. [/quote]
why not use straps for the shrugs then? why let trap development suffer because you cant hold the bar anymore- just use the straps so you can keep working. its no different than using ‘set extending’ techniques, like drop sets, partial reps, etc.
[quote]hypnotoad wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
as far as racks and shrugs are related, i dont think its very easy to do shrugs after a set of racks. not even because of how fatigued your traps are, but because of how shot your grip is.
why not use straps for the shrugs then? why let trap development suffer because you cant hold the bar anymore- just use the straps so you can keep working. its no different than using ‘set extending’ techniques, like drop sets, partial reps, etc.
[/quote]
Better question, why do rack pulls unless they serve a specific function?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hypnotoad wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
as far as racks and shrugs are related, i dont think its very easy to do shrugs after a set of racks. not even because of how fatigued your traps are, but because of how shot your grip is.
why not use straps for the shrugs then? why let trap development suffer because you cant hold the bar anymore- just use the straps so you can keep working. its no different than using ‘set extending’ techniques, like drop sets, partial reps, etc.
Better question, why do rack pulls unless they serve a specific function?
[/quote]
indeed. it seems the same line of thinking when people claimed that direct arm work was useless, because heavy benching would build bigger tris than any direct triceps work would. sure, deadlift variations work traps, but trap exercises work traps better. why would a bodybuilder rely on the secondary effects of an exercises, if he hopes to fully develop a muscle?
Deadlifts do work the traps very well. However, I think a lot of people (not all) don’t deadlift with enough volume to get the most out of the trap development they offer.
Once you start handling some massive weight for a decent amount of volume, you’ll have some damn good traps. But, this may still not be enough for some people.
Personally, even though I can pull, say, 5x5 with 565, I don’t think my traps are as developed as they should be, so I will start incorporating more shrugs.
More importantly, if your traps are lagging in spite of what you’re doing, then if you want to get them bigger, train them directly!!!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hypnotoad wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
as far as racks and shrugs are related, i dont think its very easy to do shrugs after a set of racks. not even because of how fatigued your traps are, but because of how shot your grip is.
why not use straps for the shrugs then? why let trap development suffer because you cant hold the bar anymore- just use the straps so you can keep working. its no different than using ‘set extending’ techniques, like drop sets, partial reps, etc.
Better question, why do rack pulls unless they serve a specific function?
[/quote]
Why do anything unless it serves a specific function?
I can’t think of a big deadlifter that doesn’t do shrugs.
Personally, even though I can pull, say, 5x5 with 565, I don’t think my traps are as developed as they should be, so I will start incorporating more shrugs.
[/quote]
That is because the DL / RP load is too heavy to get full ROM on the traps. And while DL / RP do help traps they need to have full ROM to really grow. So using a load light enough to be able to get full ROM with enough volume is really what builds traps and shrugs or some form of them is the primary method of being able to do that.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Why would you not do shrugs? I’ve never understood totally eliminating a movement from your training if you are a bodybuilder. Shrug. Bust your ass trying to shrug more every time you go into the gym to shrug. Make it your mission in life for those 10-15 minutes.
One day you’ll have big shoulders because of what I said, and I didn’t even make you buy a book. Now tell me I’m not philanthropic.[/quote]
I don’t do them anymore because my traps already completely dominate my upper body from all the oly lifting I used to do and the deadlifting I do now. I’ll maybe go back to them one day if my traps aren’t dispoportionately large.
Rack pulls are great if your having trouble locking out your deadlift. Being able to handle more weight through the last 1/2 of the range of motion will mean when you go back down to your deadlift weight from the floor, you’ll be able to handle it off the floor and through the lock out.
Shrugs are great for upper traps but you SHOULD be able to deadlift more than you shrug and that means more weight on the traps and more weight is always king no matter what your training for. An awesome addition to trap developement is doing a shrug at the end of your deadlift as in a “clean pull” Google it. Try it. They’re fun. Just get your technique right with a few lighter days at first before you go all out. Nothing worse for trap developement than tearing it off the bone!
Message came through loud and clear. Thanks all for the feedback, I worked shrugs into my routine this morning and will keep it up.
Any tips on technique? Should you keep your shoulders low and back through the full ROM to emphasize traps, or is it better to focus on the shoulders through a more vertical plane with higher ROM?
[quote]forlife wrote:
Message came through loud and clear. Thanks all for the feedback, I worked shrugs into my routine this morning and will keep it up.
Any tips on technique? Should you keep your shoulders low and back through the full ROM to emphasize traps, or is it better to focus on the shoulders through a more vertical plane with higher ROM?[/quote]
The shoulders are not worked by keeping the ROM up and down - its your traps that are working. Not sure what you mean about keeping the shoulders low and back. It’s a simple movement - just lift the traps straight up so you feel the most powerful contraction there.
