Open-Mindedness: Do You Understand It?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
[/quote]

“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”[/quote]

Let’s say that they could keep you from dying but you would be living hell , would death be for sure . They may not be able to do it now , but I think that one is very feasible.[/quote]

Point is he was hoping she was not ok with it, would suddenly feel uncertain and fearful, and he could tell her all about how his religion could save her from all those yucky feelings.[/quote]

well his premis is flawed by his own religions literature

102

[quote]Oleena wrote:

There have been too many logical fallacies on this site concerning religion and science to count, made by individuals allegedly on both sides of the argument. Hopefully, this helps everyone out.[/quote]

This is about as ad hoc and unscientifically based as I have ever seen. Based purely on emotive bias it seems. He is merely saying that religious folk are close minded and accusatory. That’s bullshit.

That didn’t clear shit up, but thanks for playing.

103

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I am not open minded and have never pretended to be. It is the most horrific of all vices while masquerading as the chief of virtues. The perfect deception. [/quote]

That’s probably the only honest thing you have ever said. Truth is fully elusive to you, that is for sure…

104

People who claim to be open minded are liars. It is some you strive for, not something you achieve. I strive fr it, but you simply cannot know everything. Sometimes you have to rely on your own biases to get by.

If there is a traffic jam, it could be caused by an accident, construction, someone hitting a deer, etc. Now you can sit and investigate it, or you can just assume some dumb-ass hit anther dumb-ass and get around it somehow. It’s not the open minded approach, but it is the necessary and convenient, one.

The biggest mistake people make as evidenced in that video is that religion and science are mutually exclusive. That’s horseshit, they are two different discipline seeking answers to different things. They do intersect, but most people are wrong on where and how. The universe may not have been created in 6 earth days, but that does not mean their isn’t something that brought it into existence which we would call God.

105

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
[/quote]

“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”[/quote]

Let’s say that they could keep you from dying but you would be living hell , would death be for sure . They may not be able to do it now , but I think that one is very feasible.[/quote]

Point is he was hoping she was not ok with it, would suddenly feel uncertain and fearful, and he could tell her all about how his religion could save her from all those yucky feelings.[/quote]

well his premis is flawed by his own religions literature [/quote]

His premise is flawed in that he assumed all religious people are one way, and non-religious are another. I don’t see references to the sociological studies that validate the premise at all

106

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

There have been too many logical fallacies on this site concerning religion and science to count, made by individuals allegedly on both sides of the argument. Hopefully, this helps everyone out.[/quote]

This is about as ad hoc and unscientifically based as I have ever seen. Based purely on emotive bias it seems. He is merely saying that religious folk are close minded and accusatory. That’s bullshit.

That didn’t clear shit up, but thanks for playing. [/quote]

I think that emotive biased goes both ways , What surprises me is that some equate closed mindedness as a virtue , something that can be obtained only through knowledge . NOW THAT IS BULL SHIT:)

107

David Tetlock has a couple great studies and books on the subject.

Basically he shows that people with flexible or open-minds tend to make better predictions/forecasts. He is primarily concerned with big picture stuff, but this follows through to the day to day. The inverse of this is that more dogmatic, less “open-minded” people tend to get big things very right or very wrong (wrong more often, but still).

It largely comes down to whether or not you’re a person who needs a coherent narrative for the world, or whether you can deal with the world being unintelligible and self-contradictory at times.

108

[quote]pat wrote:

His premise is flawed in that he assumed all religious people are one way, and non-religious are another. I don’t see references to the sociological studies that validate the premise at all[/quote]

Did not. My premise is that people who are looking to sell something use predictable tactics.

109

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
[/quote]

“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”[/quote]

Let’s say that they could keep you from dying but you would be living hell , would death be for sure . They may not be able to do it now , but I think that one is very feasible.[/quote]

Point is he was hoping she was not ok with it, would suddenly feel uncertain and fearful, and he could tell her all about how his religion could save her from all those yucky feelings.[/quote]

well his premis is flawed by his own religions literature [/quote]

His premise is flawed in that he assumed all religious people are one way, and non-religious are another. I don’t see references to the sociological studies that validate the premise at all[/quote]

Unless I am on a different page , I believe he said that Death was certain

110

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

His premise is flawed in that he assumed all religious people are one way, and non-religious are another. I don’t see references to the sociological studies that validate the premise at all[/quote]

Did not. My premise is that people who are looking to sell something use predictable tactics. [/quote]

LOL! You know, jumping in late to other peoples conversations are seldom a good idea…

And yes, whether they sell or shove something down your throat, the tactics tend to be typical…

111

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
[/quote]

“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”[/quote]

Let’s say that they could keep you from dying but you would be living hell , would death be for sure . They may not be able to do it now , but I think that one is very feasible.[/quote]

Point is he was hoping she was not ok with it, would suddenly feel uncertain and fearful, and he could tell her all about how his religion could save her from all those yucky feelings.[/quote]

The quest for understanding a religion is often what breaks people away from it. Eventually you learn too much and come face to face with numerous, unresolvable discrepancies that come down to interpretation, which once again place you square in front of uncertainty.

Evolution wouldn’t exist if man hadn’t been trying to understand the Christian god better through studying his “work”. I’ve seen numerous pastor’s sons, who spent their entire lives previous to breaking away from the religion, on a quest for deeper understanding and truth, become more and more disenchanted the harder they worked to find a true interpretation and trace the religion. Eventually you have to be honest about not knowing and about contradictions, quite a few of which can’t be explained by interpretation. Back in the day, we all understood the world as created by god and studied it to come to know him better.

The quote “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free” is pretty damn ironic.

112

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

There have been too many logical fallacies on this site concerning religion and science to count, made by individuals allegedly on both sides of the argument. Hopefully, this helps everyone out.[/quote]

This is about as ad hoc and unscientifically based as I have ever seen. Based purely on emotive bias it seems. He is merely saying that religious folk are close minded and accusatory. That’s bullshit.

That didn’t clear shit up, but thanks for playing. [/quote]

As I’ve stated, the only thing not to like about that video is that he always casts religion on the side of close-minded and science on the side of open, but if you listen, you should be able to make the astounding leap that he’s probably referring to the phenomenon on both sides.

113

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

There have been too many logical fallacies on this site concerning religion and science to count, made by individuals allegedly on both sides of the argument. Hopefully, this helps everyone out.[/quote]

This is about as ad hoc and unscientifically based as I have ever seen. Based purely on emotive bias it seems. He is merely saying that religious folk are close minded and accusatory. That’s bullshit.

That didn’t clear shit up, but thanks for playing. [/quote]

As I’ve stated, the only thing not to like about that video is that he always casts religion on the side of close-minded and science on the side of open, but if you listen, you should be able to make the astounding leap that he’s probably referring to the phenomenon on both sides.
[/quote]

Why should I have to make a leap about a close minded video showing religious people as the dumb unwashed masses who fill every gap with “God”. No he was not referring to the phenomenon on both sides only one side, which shows an epic fail on the part of this ‘person’ who ever the fuck he is.
It’s the same old tactic, show how open-minded you are by painting your adversary as close minded. This is just plain old atheist propaganda. When you refer to personal bias as fact, it’s propaganda. Just because he has a spiffy british accent, doesn’t mean he’s right.

114

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
[/quote]

“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”[/quote]

Let’s say that they could keep you from dying but you would be living hell , would death be for sure . They may not be able to do it now , but I think that one is very feasible.[/quote]

Point is he was hoping she was not ok with it, would suddenly feel uncertain and fearful, and he could tell her all about how his religion could save her from all those yucky feelings.[/quote]

The quest for understanding a religion is often what breaks people away from it. Eventually you learn too much and come face to face with numerous, unresolvable discrepancies that come down to interpretation, which once again place you square in front of uncertainty.

Evolution wouldn’t exist if man hadn’t been trying to understand the Christian god better through studying his “work”. I’ve seen numerous pastor’s sons, who spent their entire lives previous to breaking away from the religion, on a quest for deeper understanding and truth, become more and more disenchanted the harder they worked to find a true interpretation and trace the religion. Eventually you have to be honest about not knowing and about contradictions, quite a few of which can’t be explained by interpretation. Back in the day, we all understood the world as created by god and studied it to come to know him better.

The quote “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free” is pretty damn ironic.

[/quote]

Care to back that up with anything? I am not sure what religion or religions you practiced, but I have not experienced anything you have stated here.
The truth will indeed set you free, but what truth? The greatest error is that people believe they have to either believe science or religious faith, but that’s simply not true. They are two different things. That’s a truth. One is not the other, and vice versa.

115

[quote]pat wrote:
The biggest mistake people make as evidenced in that video is that religion and science are mutually exclusive… They do intersect[/quote]

Right…

116

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

There have been too many logical fallacies on this site concerning religion and science to count, made by individuals allegedly on both sides of the argument. Hopefully, this helps everyone out.[/quote]

This is about as ad hoc and unscientifically based as I have ever seen. Based purely on emotive bias it seems. He is merely saying that religious folk are close minded and accusatory. That’s bullshit.

That didn’t clear shit up, but thanks for playing. [/quote]

As I’ve stated, the only thing not to like about that video is that he always casts religion on the side of close-minded and science on the side of open, but if you listen, you should be able to make the astounding leap that he’s probably referring to the phenomenon on both sides.
[/quote]

It’s the same old tactic, show how open-minded you are by painting your adversary as close minded. [/quote]

Boy , I have never seen that one used before :slight_smile:

117

[quote]pat wrote:
Why should I have to make a leap about a close minded video showing religious people as the dumb unwashed masses who fill every gap with “God”. No he was not referring to the phenomenon on both sides only one side, which shows an epic fail on the part of this ‘person’ who ever the fuck he is.
It’s the same old tactic, show how open-minded you are by painting your adversary as close minded. This is just plain old atheist propaganda. When you refer to personal bias as fact, it’s propaganda. Just because he has a spiffy british accent, doesn’t mean he’s right.[/quote]

Religious people are the dumb unwashed masses. You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know. Yes, it happens to scientists, but far less than it happens with religious idiots.

Propaganda? Oh irony.

118

[quote]pat wrote:
Care to back that up with anything? I am not sure what religion or religions you practiced, but I have not experienced anything you have stated here.[/quote]

Not everyone joined this site at the same point in their lives as you.

119

[quote]pat wrote:
Just because he has a spiffy british accent, doesn’t mean he’s right.
[/quote]

Racist.

120

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
David Tetlock has a couple great studies and books on the subject.

Basically he shows that people with flexible or open-minds tend to make better predictions/forecasts. He is primarily concerned with big picture stuff, but this follows through to the day to day. The inverse of this is that more dogmatic, less “open-minded” people tend to get big things very right or very wrong (wrong more often, but still).

It largely comes down to whether or not you’re a person who needs a coherent narrative for the world, or whether you can deal with the world being unintelligible and self-contradictory at times.[/quote]

Thanks for such convincing evidence.