[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]YEAH!!! When really
I’m the one always doing this.
Pat- read back on my conversation with Tiribulus. Everything you’re saying right now was discussed less than 3 pages ago and I’m tired.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
David Tetlock has a couple great studies and books on the subject.
Basically he shows that people with flexible or open-minds tend to make better predictions/forecasts. He is primarily concerned with big picture stuff, but this follows through to the day to day. The inverse of this is that more dogmatic, less “open-minded” people tend to get big things very right or very wrong (wrong more often, but still).
It largely comes down to whether or not you’re a person who needs a coherent narrative for the world, or whether you can deal with the world being unintelligible and self-contradictory at times.[/quote]
Thanks for such convincing evidence.[/quote]
Read the book if you’re interested. It was a massive project that makes interesting reading, and is not something I could reduce or condense into a forum post.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]
God told me.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]
The part where Pat explains that everything is caused by something else, and that everything had to start somewhere, so something uncaused must have caused the first thing - and that ‘prime mover’ must be the exact anthropomorphic deity explained in the Catholic bible.
“I dont know how the universe started. Must have been God.”
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]
The part where Pat explains that everything is caused by something else, and that everything had to start somewhere, so something uncaused must have caused the first thing - and that ‘prime mover’ must be the exact anthropomorphic deity explained in the Catholic bible.
“I dont know how the universe started. Must have been God.”[/quote]
That’s not a ‘God of Gaps’ argument, and you know it; it’s cosmology. It’s a matter of existence necessitating a reason for it’s existence. That which does not exist cannot cause existence. It still is far more logical than something from nothing…Something from nothing is what does not exist.
It isn’t ‘I don’t know so it must me God’, it’s it doesn’t matter if I know or not, a necessary thing must exist for all else to exist. Nothing exists with out basis.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
Pat- read back on my conversation with Tiribulus. Everything you’re saying right now was discussed less than 3 pages ago and I’m tired.[/quote]
I doubt it, but I will gander.
I often have to repeat myself.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Why should I have to make a leap about a close minded video showing religious people as the dumb unwashed masses who fill every gap with “God”. No he was not referring to the phenomenon on both sides only one side, which shows an epic fail on the part of this ‘person’ who ever the fuck he is.
It’s the same old tactic, show how open-minded you are by painting your adversary as close minded. This is just plain old atheist propaganda. When you refer to personal bias as fact, it’s propaganda. Just because he has a spiffy british accent, doesn’t mean he’s right.[/quote]
Religious people are the dumb unwashed masses. You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know. Yes, it happens to scientists, but far less than it happens with religious idiots.
Propaganda? Oh irony.[/quote]
If you want to what a close mind looks like ^ there ya go. Willful stupidity.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Care to back that up with anything? I am not sure what religion or religions you practiced, but I have not experienced anything you have stated here.[/quote]
Not everyone joined this site at the same point in their lives as you.[/quote]
Huh?
I am really glad your an atheist…We have tirib, atheists are stuck with you…At least tirib is a good person at heart.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]
The part where Pat explains that everything is caused by something else, and that everything had to start somewhere, so something uncaused must have caused the first thing - and that ‘prime mover’ must be the exact anthropomorphic deity explained in the Catholic bible.
“I dont know how the universe started. Must have been God.”[/quote]
That’s not a ‘God of Gaps’ argument, and you know it; it’s cosmology. It’s a matter of existence necessitating a reason for it’s existence. That which does not exist cannot cause existence. It still is far more logical than something from nothing…Something from nothing is what does not exist.
It isn’t ‘I don’t know so it must me God’, it’s it doesn’t matter if I know or not, a necessary thing must exist for all else to exist. Nothing exists with out basis.[/quote]
Instead of admitting a lack of knowledge, God did it. God of the gaps.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:<<< You assume that I’m using the word “know” and “believe” interchangeably. I believe what i feel is right more strongly thsn what i feel is wrong, but i don’t know for sure either way.
I do know that if i stop breathing i’ll die. I believe that if there is a god, it doesnt have a human-like existance, but there is no way to know that for sure. I believe it to be that way because it makes sense to me, but i wouldn’t preach it as unquestionable truth because I can’t honestly say it is.[/quote]Well that is very honest of you my dear and I do genuinely respect that. You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure? I’m not being sarcastic. That’s what you seem to have just said and I wanna understand.
[/quote]
That is what I said and I’m honestly okay with it. I can say that after watching my grandma (who was like a fill-in mother to me) die three weeks ago that I feel peace when thinking about death (only sadness that they aren’t a part of your story anymore). It’s natural and only feels wrong with it comes with a lot of pain. Uncertainty of many things is a part of life and I don’t believe that you have any more of an answer than I ever did before I started exploring away from Christianity; which was also just another guess to distract yourself from the fact that when it comes down to it, you don’t really know. You just believe to the point of blindness because you’re scared.
Relax. It’s okay not to know.
[/quote]This may be the best response I’ve ever gotten here. Didn’t see it til this morning. Fair enough. Conversation’s over. I am very sorry for the loss of your grandmother.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]
The part where Pat explains that everything is caused by something else, and that everything had to start somewhere, so something uncaused must have caused the first thing - and that ‘prime mover’ must be the exact anthropomorphic deity explained in the Catholic bible.
“I dont know how the universe started. Must have been God.”[/quote]
That’s not a ‘God of Gaps’ argument, and you know it; it’s cosmology. It’s a matter of existence necessitating a reason for it’s existence. That which does not exist cannot cause existence. It still is far more logical than something from nothing…Something from nothing is what does not exist.
It isn’t ‘I don’t know so it must me God’, it’s it doesn’t matter if I know or not, a necessary thing must exist for all else to exist. Nothing exists with out basis.[/quote]
False dichotomy and self contradiction.
First, you present the only possible explanations as being “god” or “nothing”. This is a false dichotomy because there are plenty of other possibilities. The chocies are basically “nothing”, “god”, or “something we dont yet understand”. Guess which horse my money is on.
But, of course, once we understand that thing, you will say “Well, what made that?” Which leads me to my second point.
Secondly, you contradict yourself by claiming that “nothing exists without basis”, yet believe in a necessary thing that must exist without basis. You will infinitetly respond with “How did ___ get here, then? What explains ___?” till the person you’re asking is forced to say “I dont know”. And then you’ll respond “I do! Its my totally illogical and unprovable anthropomorphic deity!”
Its a god of gaps argument, now matter how you want to avoid that or say “Well YOU dont know how the unverse started, so my answer must be right!”
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]
The part where Pat explains that everything is caused by something else, and that everything had to start somewhere, so something uncaused must have caused the first thing - and that ‘prime mover’ must be the exact anthropomorphic deity explained in the Catholic bible.
“I dont know how the universe started. Must have been God.”[/quote]
That’s not a ‘God of Gaps’ argument, and you know it; it’s cosmology. It’s a matter of existence necessitating a reason for it’s existence. That which does not exist cannot cause existence. It still is far more logical than something from nothing…Something from nothing is what does not exist.
It isn’t ‘I don’t know so it must me God’, it’s it doesn’t matter if I know or not, a necessary thing must exist for all else to exist. Nothing exists with out basis.[/quote]
Instead of admitting a lack of knowledge, God did it. God of the gaps.[/quote]
Oh? Cosmology is a God of gaps argument? Prove it…Burden of proof is on you, you made the assertion…
I’ll wait, this ought to be good…
How much rope do you require to hang yourself?
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
You fill any gap in your own knowledge with GOD DID IT LOL instead of admitting you don’t know.[/quote]
Where is your proof that Pat has done this?[/quote]
The part where Pat explains that everything is caused by something else, and that everything had to start somewhere, so something uncaused must have caused the first thing - and that ‘prime mover’ must be the exact anthropomorphic deity explained in the Catholic bible.
“I dont know how the universe started. Must have been God.”[/quote]
That’s not a ‘God of Gaps’ argument, and you know it; it’s cosmology. It’s a matter of existence necessitating a reason for it’s existence. That which does not exist cannot cause existence. It still is far more logical than something from nothing…Something from nothing is what does not exist.
It isn’t ‘I don’t know so it must me God’, it’s it doesn’t matter if I know or not, a necessary thing must exist for all else to exist. Nothing exists with out basis.[/quote]
False dichotomy and self contradiction.
First, you present the only possible explanations as being “god” or “nothing”. This is a false dichotomy because there are plenty of other possibilities. The chocies are basically “nothing”, “god”, or “something we dont yet understand”. Guess which horse my money is on.
[/quote]
Oh? Please do explain…
Then you don’t know the argument. As a recap, here you go, go nuts…To help you out it comes complete with counter arguments. You’ve seen it before…How far you want to go?
What you fail is it doesn’t argue about what is unknown, it argues what must necessarily be the case. I thought we went through this, but go ahead and show me the gap and where God is used to fill it…
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cosmological-argument/
It’s not complete, but it’s a fair overview…BTW, you’ll have much better luck using one of the presented counter argument than just trying to make it up…
[quote]
Its a god of gaps argument, now matter how you want to avoid that or say “Well YOU dont know how the unverse started, so my answer must be right!”[/quote]
How the universe started is only part of it, it makes no difference if it’s this universe, a multiverse, a million accordion universes, it’s an inescapable problem…I guess your fresh, so, prove it wrong.
If you manage to prove it a ‘God of gaps’ argument, I’ll concede.
[quote]pat wrote:
Burden of proof is on you, you made the assertion…[/quote]
I postulated a sky wizard?
Damn, I didn’t even know.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Burden of proof is on you, you made the assertion…[/quote]
I postulated a sky wizard?
Damn, I didn’t even know.[/quote]
Don’t be a chump. You know you asserted that Pat used a G-d of gaps argument and that Cosmology was a G-d of gaps argument. So, prove it. Or you going to be chicken shit and avoid having to prove your own accusations?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Burden of proof is on you, you made the assertion…[/quote]
I postulated a sky wizard?
Damn, I didn’t even know.[/quote]
Don’t be a chump. “Cosmology is a God of gaps argument? Prove it…Burden of proof is on you, you made the assertion…” That is what pat told you to prove, since you asserted it, not that you postulated a sky wizard. Don’t be a bitch.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Burden of proof is on you, you made the assertion…[/quote]
I postulated a sky wizard?
Damn, I didn’t even know.[/quote]
Don’t be a chump. “Cosmology is a God of gaps argument? Prove it…Burden of proof is on you, you made the assertion…” That is what pat told you to prove, since you asserted it, not that you postulated a sky wizard. Don’t be a bitch.[/quote]
I never said cosmology was a God of the Gaps argument. I said his assertions were. To say God did it with no proof is a God of the Gaps argument.
Don’t be a retard.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There have been too many logical fallacies on this site concerning religion and science to count, made by individuals allegedly on both sides of the argument. Hopefully, this helps everyone out.[/quote]
Excellent video. But I have never understood why others need to learn how to think critically and evaluate information, but experience has shown me they do.
I don’t believe it’s necessarily a good thing to have too many people able to think for themselves. In the greatest civilisations in history religion and superstition were used as important social control mechanisms by the nobility/upper classes. Socrates explained the concept and coined the term ‘noble lie’. This is why I support the teaching of creationism at schools. Anything that introduces the lower/middle classes to a set of moral values/standards as Judeo/Christian religion does, is a good thing. By lower/middle/upper classes I mean intelletual not socio-economic BTW.
‘It’s a classic debating trick to exagerate and therefore misrepresent another person’s position’. Several people on this forum have deliberately misrepresented what I have said in the last 24 hours. Others have misrepresented what THEY have just said(i.e. murder innocents/kill innocents). I can honestly say I have never used these methods.