[quote]Oleena wrote:<<< What is this in reference too? I can’t find where i said i dont believe in reference to anything on this thread. As for the topic of god, i already stated that my responses to you here have been based on the way i feel, not on what i know to be truth. So my answer to anything based on our discussion on this thread would be ‘because that’s how it made itself know to me’.[/quote][quote]Oleena wrote:<<< I don’t believe a god-force would even make decisions, let alone biased ones because it’s presence couldn’t be described by the word “existence” due to the dichotomy implied of "non-existence.[/quote]You said you don’t believe this, but it makes no difference what specifically. Fill in the blank with anything was my point. There actually is a further significant point coming. So lets try the underlined above. What DO you know to be true and how? Name anything.
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You assume that I’m using the word “know” and “believe” interchangeably. I believe what i feel is right more strongly thsn what i feel is wrong, but i don’t know for sure either way.
I do know that if i stop breathing i’ll die. I believe that if there is a god, it doesnt have a human-like existance, but there is no way to know that for sure. I believe it to be that way because it makes sense to me, but i wouldn’t preach it as unquestionable truth because I can’t honestly say it is.
To the person that told me to ignore him you were right, but I saw a comment… 2000 years > 40 years. The 2000 years of experience says truth is absolute.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
To the person that told me to ignore him you were right, but I saw a comment… 2000 years > 40 years. The 2000 years of experience says truth is absolute.[/quote]
And the +2000 year experiences which say your truth is false? Lets just ignore the rest of the globe on the one, I guess.
[quote]Oleena wrote:<<< You assume that I’m using the word “know” and “believe” interchangeably. I believe what i feel is right more strongly thsn what i feel is wrong, but i don’t know for sure either way.
I do know that if i stop breathing i’ll die. I believe that if there is a god, it doesnt have a human-like existance, but there is no way to know that for sure. I believe it to be that way because it makes sense to me, but i wouldn’t preach it as unquestionable truth because I can’t honestly say it is.[/quote]Well that is very honest of you my dear and I do genuinely respect that. You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure? I’m not being sarcastic. That’s what you seem to have just said and I wanna understand.
[quote]Oleena wrote:<<< You assume that I’m using the word “know” and “believe” interchangeably. I believe what i feel is right more strongly thsn what i feel is wrong, but i don’t know for sure either way.
I do know that if i stop breathing i’ll die. I believe that if there is a god, it doesnt have a human-like existance, but there is no way to know that for sure. I believe it to be that way because it makes sense to me, but i wouldn’t preach it as unquestionable truth because I can’t honestly say it is.[/quote]Well that is very honest of you my dear and I do genuinely respect that. You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure? I’m not being sarcastic. That’s what you seem to have just said and I wanna understand.
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Tiribulus is trying to prey on feelings of uncertainty and fear you may have, Oleena.
This is like watching a bad commercial for religion. “How do you know anything? You cant… except with God! Do you really want to spend your life cold and miserable and ugly and alone and “not really knowing anything”… or do you want to know things? Its easy with God!”
But I suppose since such promises are what led Tirib to God!, its understandable he wants to project that on to others.
What are you her father? She can’t speak for herself without you there coaching her along you arrogant chauvinistic clod? I am asking absolutely honest questions and she has rather admirably thus far given me honest answers. Sounds like something you’re afraid of.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What are you her father? She can’t speak for herself without you there coaching her along you arrogant chauvinistic clod? I am asking absolutely honest questions and she has rather admirably thus far given me honest answers. Sounds like something you’re afraid of.[/quote]
Nothing angers a charlatan like being called out on their shit before they can dig some hooks in.
Let me guess, you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts and were going to “honestly” explain that you used to feel the same way …until you discovered product!..er, I mean, God!"
Really, like a marketing tutorial.
First you ask some personal questions, make them feel like you’re listening to them. Make them feel like they’re in control. Sound surprised or concerned… try to get them to admit a fear or insecurity. This will open them up. Be warm and project empathy - but with strength. You want them to see you as someone who cares about them, who knows what its like to be where they are, but can help them. They will still have some of the sense of being in control, but now you’re leading them. Now, tell them about what you’re selling and how it will absolutely solve their problem - remember: they are weak and unsure, you are strong and confident. Tell them it will work for them.
Sound familiar? “God is God and will not leave you recovering forever”
Oh, and if anyone else voices opposition, use this to your advantage. Say something like “What s/he cant think for themselves?” Make the intruder a common enemy between you and your target. Make siding with you feel like an act of independence and siding with them an act of cowardace and followership. The target must feel like you are on their side and a common enemy is a GREAT way to engender that.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
If the student had came to the professor with something credible then he would have listened.
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Then you should have worded your story a little better.[/quote]
Absolutely , I have no knowledge in your area , the story you told me was of an impatient teacher[/quote]
Which is my entire point. You are horrible at telling if someone is close minded unless you have knowledge in the subject area or know the person well.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know how to differentiate between a good teacher and one that is not, and an open mind is
truley essential [/quote]
Again you are acting as if you can easily tell if someone has an open mind or not. Unless you know somebody well, or already have a fair understanding in the area you are discussing, you have no damn idea if they are open minded or not. And it is extremely close minded to think you do.[/quote]
An open mind is an attitude , I believe that not everyone with a closed mind is lacking knowledge .Just as I believe not every one that acts like they know what they are talking about is so.
I believe it is easier to spot a closed mind than an open mind
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
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“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”
[quote]Oleena wrote:<<< You assume that I’m using the word “know” and “believe” interchangeably. I believe what i feel is right more strongly thsn what i feel is wrong, but i don’t know for sure either way.
I do know that if i stop breathing i’ll die. I believe that if there is a god, it doesnt have a human-like existance, but there is no way to know that for sure. I believe it to be that way because it makes sense to me, but i wouldn’t preach it as unquestionable truth because I can’t honestly say it is.[/quote]Well that is very honest of you my dear and I do genuinely respect that. You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure? I’m not being sarcastic. That’s what you seem to have just said and I wanna understand.
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That is what I said and I’m honestly okay with it. I can say that after watching my grandma (who was like a fill-in mother to me) die three weeks ago that I feel peace when thinking about death (only sadness that they aren’t a part of your story anymore). It’s natural and only feels wrong with it comes with a lot of pain. Uncertainty of many things is a part of life and I don’t believe that you have any more of an answer than I ever did before I started exploring away from Christianity; which was also just another guess to distract yourself from the fact that when it comes down to it, you don’t really know. You just believe to the point of blindness because you’re scared.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
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“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”[/quote]
Let’s say that they could keep you from dying but you would be living hell , would death be for sure . They may not be able to do it now , but I think that one is very feasible.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
I can’t remember who said it, but I’ve always been rather fond of the quote: ‘True objectivity is a view from nowhere’.
^As much as I’d like to say I apply this rationale to my own thinking, in reality I often don’t (I’m not convinced it’s even possible to be honest…at least, not consistently).
Take free-will for example, I’ve never seen the existence of free-will as being a logical axiom, though, I do tend to think we somehow possess it. Their is & I imagine always will be a certain clash between what I can rationally/intellectually conclude & what I tend to believe in OR at least, overwhelmingly WANT to believe in (even this yearning is motivated more by the preservation of my sanity as opposed to pure, intellectual honesty).
Basically put, praticality & ego almost always gets in the way.
Tis one of the reasons why I find Buddhism makes a helluva a lot more sense to me than many other ways of thinking.
I personally see no correlation between intelligence and open mindedness I could see how being gullible would effect your intellect as much as being close minded.
It just amazes me how some can tout an intelligent mind is a closed mind
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< you were just “honestly” asking if she has some fears or doubts >>>[/quote]Where did I do this. I asked her what she regards as certain and why. She responded with a list of things she is uncertain of. That is honest and far preferable to someone proclaiming abuncha stuff they haven’t thought through and aren’t prepared to defend. Maybe she’s not as irrationally hostile and insecure as you are.
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“You’re ok with simply not really knowing anything except the certainly of death for sure?”[/quote]
Let’s say that they could keep you from dying but you would be living hell , would death be for sure . They may not be able to do it now , but I think that one is very feasible.[/quote]
Point is he was hoping she was not ok with it, would suddenly feel uncertain and fearful, and he could tell her all about how his religion could save her from all those yucky feelings.
