What do you guys think of the Inzer Squat shoe?
[quote]JohnP64 wrote:
What do you guys think of the Inzer Squat shoe?[/quote]
never tried it, but i think it looks ridiculous. definitely not anywhere close to the top of my list.
Today i found a pair of Nike Oly shoes which appeared to be legit as hell.
these will probably be what i end up getting for squat day, and chucks for deadlift day.
^^^ Anyone have input/experience on those Rogue Do-Wins they sell there too?
I haven’t had time to read all the replies so apologies if I echo anyone else’s advice.
Olympic shoes are great when you want to add variety to exercises as they put more stress onto the actual leg/thigh than hips and hamstrings. I’m very tall with long femur’s so this is important to me, to someone who’s more ‘built to squat’ this may not be as important.
By wearing Olympic shoes I can add variation to my favorite leg exercises (like belt squats, front squats and safety bar squats) and fight against accommodation by not only rotating the exercises but by alternating between Converse and olympic shoes to move the stress from the hips more towards the thighs. Louie Simmons advises this in the ‘Book of methods’ which is where I got the idea from.
My olympic shoes are made by Adidias, and no, they’r not cheap but last YEARS.
[quote]burt128 wrote:
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Most people I know that have switched to them will never switch back. That has not been the case with me. I gave them an honest try for about three months. My squats looked atrocious, my knees began to ache like they never had, and for the life of me I could not stay tight in the hole because my hamstrings would go slack. I tried carrying the bar higher, carrying lower, bringing the feet in, bringing them out, turning the feet out, etc. They’re just not for me, but I acknowledge that I’m probably in the minority.
Now I squat in Safe Squat Shoes. There is a small heel but I barely notice it. It’s a good shoe and I’d recommend it for somebody for whom the higher heel isn’t doing it. [/quote]
I’ll second this. I squatted for several years on oly shoes when I was starting out, including when I started competing in powerlifting. I switch to chucks for probably 7 years or so. When I started doing more raw work, my adductors were getting really beat up. I switch to the Safe shoes, brought my stand in a bit and I don’t think I’ll ever go back to chucks for raw squatting. The Safe shoes have just enough of a heel to drive off of and to help with hitting depth. I love them. The only downside is that they are expensive. But, if you only wear them in the gym, they’ll last forever.
[/quote]
How wide do you guys squat? I’ve been interested in the Safe SST and Crain’s Genesis for a while now, but I wonder how stance width will affect each shoe.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
They look like garbage. If you’re going to shell out $90 for a subpar shoe spend an extra $30 and get a pair with a solid wood heel like Pendlay DoWin’s (what I have and love) or some Safe’s.[/quote]
I really dislike the Safe shoes and this comes from a someone who is friends with the guy who made them. Not to mention, Scott sold the business about 5 years ago.
In my opinion, the sole is just too soft. I have never watched a person squat meaningful weight in a pair of those shoes and not be able to see the heel, flexing causing instability in the feet (mainly side to side up and down movement). As the shoes age, the problem worsens. IMO, a squat shoe should have a hard sole if there is any thickness.
I have a pair of Adistars that are close to 10 years old and still work like the day I got them. I am probably odd in that I put shoe trees in them as soon as I am finished with them. Storing them this way has has maintained the shape of the shoe and allows them to dry out better so they haven’t gotten funky.
They will take some adjustment if you haven’t used them before and some guys just can’t work with them, although this is the exception rather than the rule.
$200 is real money, but in my experience the Adidas last a real long time.
If the price is killing you, Jackals has Polish Oly shoes on sale right now for $119.95. Karl is currently running the store so you couldn’t buy from a better place.[/quote]
How much weight do you consider meaningful? Are you talking about multi-ply? I’ve heard a few times that Safe SST is the best squat shoe for raw and single-ply and I’ve never heard someone say they had soft soles so I’m curious as hell.
Did my first ever squat session this morning in Olympic shoes. It’s a deload week so the numbers weren’t big. That said, I felt like my feet were bolted to the floor! I’ve been squatting over 20 years and have to say it was about the most stable I’ve ever felt. Time will tell, but my immediate reaction was a very positive one.
Shoe model: Polish shoes made by ZPUH
Cost: 119.95 + 15.00 shipping (arrived in 3 days)
Purchased from Jackal’s Gym
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]MElrodR wrote:
Adidas has a new pair called the Power Lift Trainer. They are an olympic style shoe with a slightly shorter heal, and an eva sole vs. wood. They are a good compromise. Most Oly shoes have a .75inch lift in the heel, these are a .5inch. They are light but still pretty stable. Also, around $90. I like them, and I am a medium stance squatter. I still do Oly lifts too, and they really are a good compromise.[/quote]
They look like garbage. If you’re going to shell out $90 for a subpar shoe spend an extra $30 and get a pair with a solid wood heel like Pendlay DoWin’s (what I have and love) or some Safe’s.[/quote]
that is your opinion and are entitled to it, I like my power lift trainers, as stated, they are a great compromise between a shoe that is made especially for the OL and a sturdy shoe for all types of lifting. they IMHO do not look bad at all, I can actually not feel like an idiot wearing a shoe with a nearly two inch heel in a non-OL gym with them, i have had them since August, wear them every day (i train every day) and they are holding up well.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
If you are going to spend that kind of money, why not just get the Metal or the Inzer squat shoes? They are built for squatting. Olympic shoes are built for olympic weightlifting.[/quote]
I don’t know, man. I know tons of great IPF/USAPL squatters who use an oly style shoe whether it’s the Adidas of a Polish/Russian shoe. The reality of things is Oly lifters do tons of squatting. I don’t really agree with that statement. I think they are built for squatting.
The one thing I would say is I rarely box squat because I am one of those guys who squats a lot more to a box than free, but I really get no carry over. It was frustrating, but when I finally just accepted this was when I switched shoes.
Now, if I do a cycle of box squats (about 2X per year), I do them in my Chucks. They feel terrible in my Adidas.
It’s kind of like most things in PL from a gear standpoint. You need to use what works for you. Lately, I have been doing a lot of fronts and high bars (free) because I am trying to bring my convo pull up and feel strongly there is a correlation. There’s no way I would do these in my Chucks. For me, it feels like shit.
A long time ago I was told by someone much more talented than I that in terms of achieving depth you can do two things. Squat deeper or elevate the heel. I think having an elevated heel helps when you have to break parallel and you squat RAW or in gear that has less stopping power.
It’s kinda like ramps for a sumo puller (which the IPF made illegal which is ridiculous IMO). Some lifters do very well in them. Some are totally thrown off.
You just have to try it and see.
[/quote]
This is the major problem I see with olympic shoes:
I hate to bust this out because I think “functional” training is meant to sell books and seats at seminars and is not meant to really help any athletes but, one of the functional movement tests for the FMS is the overhead squat. For those that arent familiar, the FMS uses several movements to identify weaknesses, movement problems, and imbalances in athletes. Each exercise has progressions and are graded on a scale from 0 to 3. 3 being executing the movement perfectly and 0 being the athlete could not complete the movement because of pain.
Back to the overhead squat: a dowel is held overhead, the athlete is instructed to squat, and the tester looks for things like excessive trunk flexion, ankle instability, knee valgus, all kinds of other shit. If the athlete keeps the dowel overhead, drops below parallel, and the hips/feet/upper back/dowel are all lined up, they score a three. If the dowel goes forward, the athlete can’t hit depth, the back caves, the knees valgus, or they do anything wrong (implying some sort of movement problem), the next progression is to elevate the heel. Very rarely does this not immediately “fix” the movement problem. Now, was anything actually fixed? Absolutely not. Stability/mobility problems were masked and the athlete could complete the movement. Now the score is a 2 or lower.
I know a lot of lifters use the shoes. A lot of lifters also have horrible mobility. A quick fix for a major problem is never, ever any good for anyone. Personally, I would rather fix all of the stuff I suck at then mask my lack of mobility for a few hundred bucks and a few more inches on my squat.
[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
[quote]burt128 wrote:
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Most people I know that have switched to them will never switch back. That has not been the case with me. I gave them an honest try for about three months. My squats looked atrocious, my knees began to ache like they never had, and for the life of me I could not stay tight in the hole because my hamstrings would go slack. I tried carrying the bar higher, carrying lower, bringing the feet in, bringing them out, turning the feet out, etc. They’re just not for me, but I acknowledge that I’m probably in the minority.
Now I squat in Safe Squat Shoes. There is a small heel but I barely notice it. It’s a good shoe and I’d recommend it for somebody for whom the higher heel isn’t doing it. [/quote]
I’ll second this. I squatted for several years on oly shoes when I was starting out, including when I started competing in powerlifting. I switch to chucks for probably 7 years or so. When I started doing more raw work, my adductors were getting really beat up. I switch to the Safe shoes, brought my stand in a bit and I don’t think I’ll ever go back to chucks for raw squatting. The Safe shoes have just enough of a heel to drive off of and to help with hitting depth. I love them. The only downside is that they are expensive. But, if you only wear them in the gym, they’ll last forever.
[/quote]
How wide do you guys squat? I’ve been interested in the Safe SST and Crain’s Genesis for a while now, but I wonder how stance width will affect each shoe.
[/quote]
Not terribly wide. I have some video of squats in my log so you can get a sense of my biomechanics. Feet a little outside the hips, moderate sit-back, fairly low bar. Even with the lower heel on the Safe’s, I have to be conscious of my knees from shooting forward at the bottom.
[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
How much weight do you consider meaningful? Are you talking about multi-ply? I’ve heard a few times that Safe SST is the best squat shoe for raw and single-ply and I’ve never heard someone say they had soft soles so I’m curious as hell.
[/quote]
Meaningful is a relative term. I am referring to meaningful relative to the strength of the lifter. As weight gets heavier, stability becomes a bigger issue. This is where I have noticed a lot of movement in the heel of the shoe.
The sole is rubber and not particularly stiff. At lighter weights, the side to side flexion becomes evident and at heavier weights the heel will actually get compressed by the weight.
It’s kind of like when you see a guy in cross trainers squatting and if you watch carefully, you will see a lot of side to side flexion in the sole. It’s not as pronounced with a Safe shoe, but still evident.
My thoughts are energy expenditure is energy expenditure, particularly on a limit lift, and the more stable and efficient the pattern of movement, the better.
IMO,
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I know a lot of lifters use the shoes. A lot of lifters also have horrible mobility. A quick fix for a major problem is never, ever any good for anyone. Personally, I would rather fix all of the stuff I suck at then mask my lack of mobility for a few hundred bucks and a few more inches on my squat.[/quote]
Agree with you completely on masking flexibility issues and the reality of things is I have coached HS lifters whom were very inflexible and in the short term, a raised heel helps but as you said, you have to address the main issue(s) from just a general, “keep the lifter healthy” standpoint. Even with a raised heel I have at times tweaked my calf to the point it hurt to squat for a week or two. This is a definite reminder of what you speak of.
My response was based on your assertion that they aren’t squat shoes.
BTW, your posts that I have read have made me take a closer look at flexibility and other issues I am having and instead of plowing through them, actually addressing them and it has helped.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Not terribly wide. I have some video of squats in my log so you can get a sense of my biomechanics. Feet a little outside the hips, moderate sit-back, fairly low bar. Even with the lower heel on the Safe’s, I have to be conscious of my knees from shooting forward at the bottom. [/quote]
Hey Ramo. I wasn’t trying to be argumentative with you. Just pointing out something I have noticed. I train on and off with probably half a dozen lifters who use the SST’s. A lot of people really like them. I have just been bothered by the heel flexion I have observed. I think if they were redesigned with a stiffer sole, it would be an upgrade. That was kind of my basis for the comment about Scott having sold the business. The design of those shoes has not changed for probably 20 years and I am surprised the sole hasn’t been stiffened.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Not terribly wide. I have some video of squats in my log so you can get a sense of my biomechanics. Feet a little outside the hips, moderate sit-back, fairly low bar. Even with the lower heel on the Safe’s, I have to be conscious of my knees from shooting forward at the bottom. [/quote]
Hey Ramo. I wasn’t trying to be argumentative with you. Just pointing out something I have noticed. I train on and off with probably half a dozen lifters who use the SST’s. A lot of people really like them. I have just been bothered by the heel flexion I have observed. I think if they were redesigned with a stiffer sole, it would be an upgrade. That was kind of my basis for the comment about Scott having sold the business. The design of those shoes has not changed for probably 20 years and I am surprised the sole hasn’t been stiffened.[/quote]
Not at all bud. My take is that the shoe is not perfect…they are not as rock solid as my olympic shoes, and the sole does not grip the floor as well. I agree that pressed wood instead of dense rubber in the sole would be an upgrade, and if somebody would put out a power shoe with a low but denser heel, I’d be first in line. I feel like they cup my heel pretty well, and the height is a good compromise for a raw or single-ply squatter. Enough to help out a little with your biomechanics, but not too high to change them or to beat up your knees too badly. And for what they are, they’re very well made and will last forever.
Ok thanks Ramo and Apwsearch for the answers.
[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
[quote]burt128 wrote:
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Most people I know that have switched to them will never switch back. That has not been the case with me. I gave them an honest try for about three months. My squats looked atrocious, my knees began to ache like they never had, and for the life of me I could not stay tight in the hole because my hamstrings would go slack. I tried carrying the bar higher, carrying lower, bringing the feet in, bringing them out, turning the feet out, etc. They’re just not for me, but I acknowledge that I’m probably in the minority.
Now I squat in Safe Squat Shoes. There is a small heel but I barely notice it. It’s a good shoe and I’d recommend it for somebody for whom the higher heel isn’t doing it. [/quote]
I’ll second this. I squatted for several years on oly shoes when I was starting out, including when I started competing in powerlifting. I switch to chucks for probably 7 years or so. When I started doing more raw work, my adductors were getting really beat up. I switch to the Safe shoes, brought my stand in a bit and I don’t think I’ll ever go back to chucks for raw squatting. The Safe shoes have just enough of a heel to drive off of and to help with hitting depth. I love them. The only downside is that they are expensive. But, if you only wear them in the gym, they’ll last forever.
[/quote]
How wide do you guys squat? I’ve been interested in the Safe SST and Crain’s Genesis for a while now, but I wonder how stance width will affect each shoe.
[/quote]
I’m wider than shoulder width by a decent bit, but not crazy wide. That probably isn’t the best description, but I don’t know how to describe it otherwise. I have a buddy who has the Crain shoes. He likes them quite a bit, but they have a higher heel than the Safe shoes I have. I tried his Crains (we’re roughly the same size) and I like the Safe shoes better. Coming from Chucks, they have enough of a heel that allowed me to bring my stance in a bit but not so much as the oly shoes I used to use when I first started competing.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Not terribly wide. I have some video of squats in my log so you can get a sense of my biomechanics. Feet a little outside the hips, moderate sit-back, fairly low bar. Even with the lower heel on the Safe’s, I have to be conscious of my knees from shooting forward at the bottom. [/quote]
Hey Ramo. I wasn’t trying to be argumentative with you. Just pointing out something I have noticed. I train on and off with probably half a dozen lifters who use the SST’s. A lot of people really like them. I have just been bothered by the heel flexion I have observed. I think if they were redesigned with a stiffer sole, it would be an upgrade. That was kind of my basis for the comment about Scott having sold the business. The design of those shoes has not changed for probably 20 years and I am surprised the sole hasn’t been stiffened.[/quote]
Not at all bud. My take is that the shoe is not perfect…they are not as rock solid as my olympic shoes, and the sole does not grip the floor as well. I agree that pressed wood instead of dense rubber in the sole would be an upgrade, and if somebody would put out a power shoe with a low but denser heel, I’d be first in line. I feel like they cup my heel pretty well, and the height is a good compromise for a raw or single-ply squatter. Enough to help out a little with your biomechanics, but not too high to change them or to beat up your knees too badly. And for what they are, they’re very well made and will last forever. [/quote]
For what it is worth, I haven’t noticed any heel flexion issues and I’ve squatted limit raw (518) and single ply (661) weights in them without noticing stability issues. Now, I’m coming from using Chucks, which I don’t think would probably win any stability awards, so maybe the flexion is there and I just don’t notice it.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]MElrodR wrote:
Adidas has a new pair called the Power Lift Trainer. They are an olympic style shoe with a slightly shorter heal, and an eva sole vs. wood. They are a good compromise. Most Oly shoes have a .75inch lift in the heel, these are a .5inch. They are light but still pretty stable. Also, around $90. I like them, and I am a medium stance squatter. I still do Oly lifts too, and they really are a good compromise.[/quote]
They look like garbage. If you’re going to shell out $90 for a subpar shoe spend an extra $30 and get a pair with a solid wood heel like Pendlay DoWin’s (what I have and love) or some Safe’s.[/quote]
that is your opinion and are entitled to it, I like my power lift trainers, as stated, they are a great compromise between a shoe that is made especially for the OL and a sturdy shoe for all types of lifting. they IMHO do not look bad at all, I can actually not feel like an idiot wearing a shoe with a nearly two inch heel in a non-OL gym with them, i have had them since August, wear them every day (i train every day) and they are holding up well.
[/quote]
Yes it is my opinion - I’m just saying due to the amount of compression that those shoes are going to have in comparison to those with a solid heel is what makes them not worth it - again in my opinion, you’re welcome to spend your money as you want, though if I’m spending 90 bucks for a shoe I’d spend 30 more and get an actual quality oly shoe and leave chucks for every-day use. For the record, most Oly shoes don’t have a 2 inch heel - most are 3/4" and you can’t tell a difference unless you scrutinize it close up.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
If you are going to spend that kind of money, why not just get the Metal or the Inzer squat shoes? They are built for squatting. Olympic shoes are built for olympic weightlifting.[/quote]
I don’t know, man. I know tons of great IPF/USAPL squatters who use an oly style shoe whether it’s the Adidas of a Polish/Russian shoe. The reality of things is Oly lifters do tons of squatting. I don’t really agree with that statement. I think they are built for squatting.
The one thing I would say is I rarely box squat because I am one of those guys who squats a lot more to a box than free, but I really get no carry over. It was frustrating, but when I finally just accepted this was when I switched shoes.
Now, if I do a cycle of box squats (about 2X per year), I do them in my Chucks. They feel terrible in my Adidas.
It’s kind of like most things in PL from a gear standpoint. You need to use what works for you. Lately, I have been doing a lot of fronts and high bars (free) because I am trying to bring my convo pull up and feel strongly there is a correlation. There’s no way I would do these in my Chucks. For me, it feels like shit.
A long time ago I was told by someone much more talented than I that in terms of achieving depth you can do two things. Squat deeper or elevate the heel. I think having an elevated heel helps when you have to break parallel and you squat RAW or in gear that has less stopping power.
It’s kinda like ramps for a sumo puller (which the IPF made illegal which is ridiculous IMO). Some lifters do very well in them. Some are totally thrown off.
You just have to try it and see.
[/quote]
This is the major problem I see with olympic shoes:
I hate to bust this out because I think “functional” training is meant to sell books and seats at seminars and is not meant to really help any athletes but, one of the functional movement tests for the FMS is the overhead squat. For those that arent familiar, the FMS uses several movements to identify weaknesses, movement problems, and imbalances in athletes. Each exercise has progressions and are graded on a scale from 0 to 3. 3 being executing the movement perfectly and 0 being the athlete could not complete the movement because of pain.
Back to the overhead squat: a dowel is held overhead, the athlete is instructed to squat, and the tester looks for things like excessive trunk flexion, ankle instability, knee valgus, all kinds of other shit. If the athlete keeps the dowel overhead, drops below parallel, and the hips/feet/upper back/dowel are all lined up, they score a three. If the dowel goes forward, the athlete can’t hit depth, the back caves, the knees valgus, or they do anything wrong (implying some sort of movement problem), the next progression is to elevate the heel. Very rarely does this not immediately “fix” the movement problem. Now, was anything actually fixed? Absolutely not. Stability/mobility problems were masked and the athlete could complete the movement. Now the score is a 2 or lower.
I know a lot of lifters use the shoes. A lot of lifters also have horrible mobility. A quick fix for a major problem is never, ever any good for anyone. Personally, I would rather fix all of the stuff I suck at then mask my lack of mobility for a few hundred bucks and a few more inches on my squat.[/quote]
I’ll agree with this analysis and my score is currently sitting at a 1 via the FMS. That being said, oly shoes have helped me get my hips under me better and have eliminated a large portion of my hip pain when squatting (though I’m doing a ton of mobility work so that’s helping too if not more so). All and all I think it comes down to preference and honesty. If you’re honest with yourself and realize that some issues may be masked but approach them in a systematic way to remove them then oly shoes can be very enjoyable to lift in with very little downside. On the flip side, it could be as you say and they simply act as a mask for poor mobility (a much more likely scenario).
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]MElrodR wrote:
Adidas has a new pair called the Power Lift Trainer. They are an olympic style shoe with a slightly shorter heal, and an eva sole vs. wood. They are a good compromise. Most Oly shoes have a .75inch lift in the heel, these are a .5inch. They are light but still pretty stable. Also, around $90. I like them, and I am a medium stance squatter. I still do Oly lifts too, and they really are a good compromise.[/quote]
They look like garbage. If you’re going to shell out $90 for a subpar shoe spend an extra $30 and get a pair with a solid wood heel like Pendlay DoWin’s (what I have and love) or some Safe’s.[/quote]
that is your opinion and are entitled to it, I like my power lift trainers, as stated, they are a great compromise between a shoe that is made especially for the OL and a sturdy shoe for all types of lifting. they IMHO do not look bad at all, I can actually not feel like an idiot wearing a shoe with a nearly two inch heel in a non-OL gym with them, i have had them since August, wear them every day (i train every day) and they are holding up well.
[/quote]
Yes it is my opinion - I’m just saying due to the amount of compression that those shoes are going to have in comparison to those with a solid heel is what makes them not worth it - again in my opinion, you’re welcome to spend your money as you want, though if I’m spending 90 bucks for a shoe I’d spend 30 more and get an actual quality oly shoe and leave chucks for every-day use. For the record, most Oly shoes don’t have a 2 inch heel - most are 3/4" and you can’t tell a difference unless you scrutinize it close up.
[/quote]
very well then, we can agree to disagree, I have front squatted 220kg in these shoes and pulled 270kg, felt no compression issues with the heel.