Olive Oil Bad? WTF?

Nutrition
21

Lauric Acid is comprises over 50 percent of the coconut oil. Lauric acid is an amazing saturated fat, and very healthy on many levels.

This is a bit of on luaric acid’s ability to increase activation of thyroid hormones that I found online on first google search:

Another use is to raise metabolism, believed to derive from lauric acid’s activation of 20% of thyroidal hormones, otherwise which lay dormant.[citation needed] This is supposed from lauric acid’s release of enzymes in the intestinal tract which activate the thyroid.[citation needed] This could account the metabolism-raising properties of coconut oil.

Coconut oil for cooking. It’s good stuff, taste-wise, and tons of health benefits. Get the virgin organic - A tiny bit goes a long, long way, so go high quality over the cheap stuff.

But I do use Grapeseed oil as my second choice, or when I need an oil without as much flavor.

22

Interestng info :smiley: i will test coco oil for sure then

23

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
No. Monounsaturated fat has its benefits too. Assuming you are getting plenty of Omega3s in your diet, and we all should be, you would be short-changing yourself by avoiding Omega-6 and monounsaturates. It is also wrong to equate unhydrogenated vegetable oil with trans fats. They are entirely different. Trans fats as well as obesity, lack of exercise, and simple sugars are culprits of the things you mention. [/quote]

I know they have their benefits and I never equated vegetable oils with transfats, but rather I said that they perpetuated transfats as a big part of our diet(via processed foods). But with our state of farming it has become increasingly difficult to consume adequate amounts of omega 3’s from meats, dairy and eggs to balance out the 6s.

A tablespoon of olive oil(according to Nutritiondata.com) has 20’000mg of extra omega 6s. Note that a daily serving of Flameout has just over 4’500mg of free fatty acids. Although you can easily offset this by some ALA foods or supplements, it does go to show just how much omega 6’s is in these oils. Switching to canola and/or coconut would be a much better option.

24

[quote]Majin wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
No. Monounsaturated fat has its benefits too. Assuming you are getting plenty of Omega3s in your diet, and we all should be, you would be short-changing yourself by avoiding Omega-6 and monounsaturates. It is also wrong to equate unhydrogenated vegetable oil with trans fats. They are entirely different. Trans fats as well as obesity, lack of exercise, and simple sugars are culprits of the things you mention.

I know they have their benefits and I never equated vegetable oils with transfats, but rather I said that they perpetuated transfats as a big part of our diet(via processed foods). But with our state of farming it has become increasingly difficult to consume adequate amounts of omega 3’s from meats, dairy and eggs to balance out the 6s.

A tablespoon of olive oil(according to Nutritiondata.com) has 20’000mg of extra omega 6s. Note that a daily serving of Flameout has just over 4’500mg of free fatty acids. Although you can easily offset this by some ALA foods or supplements, it does go to show just how much omega 6’s is in these oils. Switching to canola and/or coconut would be a much better option. [/quote]

I prefer an even distribution of fat. 1/3 saturated, 1/3 polyunsaturate, and 1/3 monounsaturate. I eat a ton of fish and pop fish oil like it’s candy. I feel that I feel better when adding sources of monounsaturated fat to my diet. I do agree that you probably can’t get enough Omega 3 from meat and poultry. You really need to eat fish and supplement your iet.

25

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I prefer an even distribution of fat. 1/3 saturated, 1/3 polyunsaturate, and 1/3 monounsaturate. I eat a ton of fish and pop fish oil like it’s candy. I feel that I feel better when adding sources of monounsaturated fat to my diet. I do agree that you probably can’t get enough Omega 3 from meat and poultry. You really need to eat fish and supplement your iet. [/quote]

Yeah, with a setup like that you’ve got it covered. Seems like most fish is farmed, though. Plus mercury, PCB, dioxins and whatnot. Are you getting a specific kind of fish or just getting wild caught? Maybe I should get into the whole sardine-caviar thing…

26

Just couldn’t stop writing. Be prepared to challenge some wide-spread beliefs as we enter… The Fat Zone.

Guys, I hope you realize just how truly out of whack we are on the omega-6:omega-3 ratios.

Check NutritionData.com for fat statistics on many of our favorite animal friends. This is my main food group. It’s scary, but they’re all out of balance toward omega-6. Every one of them, except for fish. (All below are for 100 grams, raw:)

chicken leg (no skin) - omega6: 730mg, omega3: 100mg
chicken leg (skin on) - omega6: 2340mg, omega3: 170mg
pork loin - omega6: 448mg, omega3: 19mg
grass fed beef (sirloin) - omega 6: 311mg, omega3: 152mg
wild salmon - omega6: 200mg, omega3: 1500mg
wild blue mussels - omega6: 18mg, omega3: 483mg
farmed tilapia - omega6: 210mg, omega3: 220mg

Yes, this even includes the venerable grass fed beef. A 2:1 ratio is still throwing us off double, if it’s a 1:1 ratio that is the ideal.

Now, you add vegetable oils on top of that, and we’re digging an even bigger hole.

Except for flax oil, they’re all way in favor of omega-6. Yes, this includes canola, walnut and grapeseed oil. It includes olive oil. Only flax is omega-3, and in a big way too, thankfully. (For 1 cup of oil:)

flax oil - omega6: 28 grams, omega3: 116 grams

I would use flax wherever an unheated oil is possible, like on raw salads, or on vegetables having already been steamed.

For cooking, I would use coconut oil. It has no omega-3, so it’s ratio is 1:0 in favor of omega-6.

But it has hardly any omega-6 either!

Get on NutritionData, and you will see. (All below are for 1 cup of oil:)

coconut - omega6: 4 grams, omega3: 0 grams
palm - omega6: 20 grams, omega3: 0 grams
olive - omega6: 21 grams, omega3: 2 grams
canola - omega6: 41 grams, omega3: 17 grams
walnut - omega6: 115 grams, omega3: 23 grams
corn - omega6: 117 grams, omega3: 3 grams
grapeseed - omega6: 152 grams, omega3: 0 grams

If you notice, the ratios mean absolute nothing, as far as harm is concerned. Sure, canola and walnut are better than corn oil. And they have a better ratio than coconut’s 1:0.

But you look at the total number of the omega-6 that you’re putting in your body from these oils, and the answer for a cooking oil becomes obvious. Coconut all the way, baby!

In fact, I would rather use olive oil than walnut oil, to avoid the omega-6 that I don’t need.

But I wouldn’t use olive oil either. There’s the argument for monounsaturates. So what. You can get those from nuts. Hell, you can get monounsaturates from chicken. (All below are for 100 grams, raw:)

chicken leg (no skin) - mono: 1.2g, sat: 1.0g
chicken leg (skin on) - mono: 4.9g, sat: 3.4g
pork loin - mono: 1.8g, sat: 1.5g
grass fed beef (sirloin) - mono: 5.4g, sat: 5.1g
wild salmon - mono: 2.1g, sat: 1.3g
wild blue mussels - mono: 0.8g, sat: 0.6g
farmed tilapia - mono: 0.7g, sat: 0.8g

Apparently, we are already swimming in monounsaturated fat. We’re not doing too badly with the saturates either.

I learned a lot in writing this, and doing the research. Here’s the points I’m taking home:

  1. Other that fish, animals are screwing up our omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Even grass fed beef.
  2. As a confirmed carnivore, I therby question the 1:1 ratio that is supposedly ideal. In fact, I did some more research on paleodiet websites, and they suggest 1.5:1 Thank god.
  3. Even if you eat only grass fed beef, you’re still 2:1. Gotta eat the seafood!
  4. Blue mussels are a better source of omega-3 than salmon. More minerals too. That’s cool, because I love them to death. Mollusks are a whole food. They look like vaginas.
  5. I’m more apt to believe that story of human evolution, the one where the gatherer women collected mollusks to grow big baby brains full of DHA. (Anyone know where I can find a woman who meets that description?)
  6. Ok, back to the main story, we need to stop feeding our animals grains. In fact, we should stop growing grains. Grains are for the birds.
  7. Speaking of birds, I will hereby remove the skin from chicken. I think I just died a little inside… But that was only my spirit dying. My body will grow stronger, avoiding all those unnecessary omega-6.
  8. Flax oil is the god of vegetable oils, when not used for cooking. If you don’t like the taste, be glad it isn’t fish oil being drizzled onto your greens. There’s no other way to add omega-3 while avoiding omega-6.
  9. So, apparently, coconut oil kicks palm oil’s omega-6 proliferating ass. In fact, it kicks all cooking oils’ omega-6 proliferating asses! Why did I ever stop buying it? Coconut for cooking. Flax for garnish.
  10. Olive oil is unnecessary. Monounsaturates are everywhere already.

Good night, and good luck.

27

WHOA WHOA WHOA

All this time, I’ve been frying my eggs with extra virgin olive oil… wtf? lol

28

[quote]Majin wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I prefer an even distribution of fat. 1/3 saturated, 1/3 polyunsaturate, and 1/3 monounsaturate. I eat a ton of fish and pop fish oil like it’s candy. I feel that I feel better when adding sources of monounsaturated fat to my diet. I do agree that you probably can’t get enough Omega 3 from meat and poultry. You really need to eat fish and supplement your iet.

Yeah, with a setup like that you’ve got it covered. Seems like most fish is farmed, though. Plus mercury, PCB, dioxins and whatnot. Are you getting a specific kind of fish or just getting wild caught? Maybe I should get into the whole sardine-caviar thing…
[/quote]

I get most of my fish at Trader Joes. Frozen. Orange roughy, mahi mahi, cod all come with noseasonings. Salmon too. Ahi tuna comes in a sauce [of a little olive oil and spices and lemon juice].

29

I metioned this in another thread, but it’s approriate here too. If your cncerned about farmed fish, and you should be to some extent, there is a cheap alternative. (to salmon, at least)

There is a canned Wild Alaskan Salmon produced by a company called Demming’s. It comes in a blue can. it’s 14 or 16oz, can’t recall of hand. The cost is less than 2 dollars. and at that size can, it’s around 90g of protien and lots of Omega-3’s.

Hunt around for it. I haven’t found a cheaper way to eat salmon. Salmon steaks are good for sure, but wild caught filets are expensive.

cueball

30

[quote]futuredave wrote:
xvsanta42 wrote:
yeah what would you use for cooking?

Grapeseed oil. Google it. Much higher smoke point than EVOO.[/quote]

For me, I never EVER cook with EVOO. And here’s how I typically use oils when cooking:

For < medium heat: Regular olive oil (not the EV)
For medium heat: Organic unrefined Coconut oil
For > medium heat: Organic refined coconut oil

And here’s another tip: When stir-frying, add a tablespoon of water to the pan/wok BEFORE adding the oil. This prevents the oil from getting too hot and can slow the destruction of the fragile fats.

31

Judging by those numbers, we’re hardly swimming in monounsaturated fat. In fact, we would not really be getting very much from protein sources alone. The Omega 3/Omega 6 balance is important. Therefore, eating seafood is important. Flax is good to incorporate into your diet. And fish oil is essential.

None of this suggets olive oil, avocado, nuts or other monounsaturates should be avoided. A lot of research shows that olive oil and especially avocado oil have health benefits that monounsaturates from animal protein do not. Avocado oil/avocadoes have even been shown to increase the absorbtion of micronutrients from vegetables to a good degree.

These foods have little Omega6 fatty acid and don’t throw off the balance. I’d like to see the research showing the monunsaturates promote inflammation or lead to health problems the way a poor Omega3/Omega6 balance can. No, if you have 1/3 saturated, 1/3 monounsaturated, and 1/3 polyunsaturated with a focus on getting plenty of Omega3s as your polyunsaturated sources, you should be good to go.

[quote]Kailash wrote:
Just couldn’t stop writing. Be prepared to challenge some wide-spread beliefs as we enter… The Fat Zone.

Guys, I hope you realize just how truly out of whack we are on the omega-6:omega-3 ratios.

Check NutritionData.com for fat statistics on many of our favorite animal friends. This is my main food group. It’s scary, but they’re all out of balance toward omega-6. Every one of them, except for fish. (All below are for 100 grams, raw:)

chicken leg (no skin) - omega6: 730mg, omega3: 100mg
chicken leg (skin on) - omega6: 2340mg, omega3: 170mg
pork loin - omega6: 448mg, omega3: 19mg
grass fed beef (sirloin) - omega 6: 311mg, omega3: 152mg
wild salmon - omega6: 200mg, omega3: 1500mg
wild blue mussels - omega6: 18mg, omega3: 483mg
farmed tilapia - omega6: 210mg, omega3: 220mg

Yes, this even includes the venerable grass fed beef. A 2:1 ratio is still throwing us off double, if it’s a 1:1 ratio that is the ideal.

Now, you add vegetable oils on top of that, and we’re digging an even bigger hole.

Except for flax oil, they’re all way in favor of omega-6. Yes, this includes canola, walnut and grapeseed oil. It includes olive oil. Only flax is omega-3, and in a big way too, thankfully. (For 1 cup of oil:)

flax oil - omega6: 28 grams, omega3: 116 grams

I would use flax wherever an unheated oil is possible, like on raw salads, or on vegetables having already been steamed.

For cooking, I would use coconut oil. It has no omega-3, so it’s ratio is 1:0 in favor of omega-6.

But it has hardly any omega-6 either!

Get on NutritionData, and you will see. (All below are for 1 cup of oil:)

coconut - omega6: 4 grams, omega3: 0 grams
palm - omega6: 20 grams, omega3: 0 grams
olive - omega6: 21 grams, omega3: 2 grams
canola - omega6: 41 grams, omega3: 17 grams
walnut - omega6: 115 grams, omega3: 23 grams
corn - omega6: 117 grams, omega3: 3 grams
grapeseed - omega6: 152 grams, omega3: 0 grams

If you notice, the ratios mean absolute nothing, as far as harm is concerned. Sure, canola and walnut are better than corn oil. And they have a better ratio than coconut’s 1:0.

But you look at the total number of the omega-6 that you’re putting in your body from these oils, and the answer for a cooking oil becomes obvious. Coconut all the way, baby!

In fact, I would rather use olive oil than walnut oil, to avoid the omega-6 that I don’t need.

But I wouldn’t use olive oil either. There’s the argument for monounsaturates. So what. You can get those from nuts. Hell, you can get monounsaturates from chicken. (All below are for 100 grams, raw:)

chicken leg (no skin) - mono: 1.2g, sat: 1.0g
chicken leg (skin on) - mono: 4.9g, sat: 3.4g
pork loin - mono: 1.8g, sat: 1.5g
grass fed beef (sirloin) - mono: 5.4g, sat: 5.1g
wild salmon - mono: 2.1g, sat: 1.3g
wild blue mussels - mono: 0.8g, sat: 0.6g
farmed tilapia - mono: 0.7g, sat: 0.8g

Apparently, we are already swimming in monounsaturated fat. We’re not doing too badly with the saturates either.

I learned a lot in writing this, and doing the research. Here’s the points I’m taking home:

  1. Other that fish, animals are screwing up our omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Even grass fed beef.
  2. As a confirmed carnivore, I therby question the 1:1 ratio that is supposedly ideal. In fact, I did some more research on paleodiet websites, and they suggest 1.5:1 Thank god.
  3. Even if you eat only grass fed beef, you’re still 2:1. Gotta eat the seafood!
  4. Blue mussels are a better source of omega-3 than salmon. More minerals too. That’s cool, because I love them to death. Mollusks are a whole food. They look like vaginas.
  5. I’m more apt to believe that story of human evolution, the one where the gatherer women collected mollusks to grow big baby brains full of DHA. (Anyone know where I can find a woman who meets that description?)
  6. Ok, back to the main story, we need to stop feeding our animals grains. In fact, we should stop growing grains. Grains are for the birds.
  7. Speaking of birds, I will hereby remove the skin from chicken. I think I just died a little inside… But that was only my spirit dying. My body will grow stronger, avoiding all those unnecessary omega-6.
  8. Flax oil is the god of vegetable oils, when not used for cooking. If you don’t like the taste, be glad it isn’t fish oil being drizzled onto your greens. There’s no other way to add omega-3 while avoiding omega-6.
  9. So, apparently, coconut oil kicks palm oil’s omega-6 proliferating ass. In fact, it kicks all cooking oils’ omega-6 proliferating asses! Why did I ever stop buying it? Coconut for cooking. Flax for garnish.
  10. Olive oil is unnecessary. Monounsaturates are everywhere already.

Good night, and good luck.[/quote]

32

in re: cooking
Get yourself a good Circulon pan. No oil required for frying anything, including eggs & cheese! Although if you’re a caveman in the kitchen it’s prolly not the pan for you as it requires specific handling…

33

The only problem with that is that rarely is anybody actually getting that much seafood and fish oil. Offsetting large amounts of omega-6 may prove quite expensive if you don’t watch your other foods. If you take conscious people’s diets and add up all the fatty acids it would be something like 10:1 in favor of omega-6. Because even if a person takes a supplement or two they still only get maybe 10-15g of omega 3’s. That’s just one tablespoon.

That’s why I maintain that part of the strategy should be to cut back on vegetable oils and choose the one’s that have a decent omega3/omega6 ratio, such as Flax, Canola, Walnut, Coconut, Perilla and Hemp oils.

There are still some decent fish that don’t cost a fortune:
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html

Also omega-3 eggs, some whole milk dairy and certain nuts. All with ratios which, although not ideal, can take care of most of their own omega6’s and help seafood, fish oil and ALA omega-3 supplements take care of business.

So a basic reevaluation of fat-sources in one’s diet IMO should be paramount.

34

[quote]Majin wrote:
There are still some decent fish that don’t cost a fortune:
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html [/quote]

lol - page updated Feb. 2006. With what - fresh data from 1978?? Man - I really hope the Govt. is keeping closer tabs on mercury levels than this would indicate. But then I suppose not many folks eat anchovies, mackerel, or herring…

35

Alaskan canned salmon is just about all wild caught and mostly from smaller specimens because that’s what fits through their automated cleaning machines. I worked for Peter Pan seafoods in Valdez and was fortunate enough to witness the whole process from the seining vessel to the can.

I would not hesitate to eat their canned salmon which is an exceedingly beautiful thing because it’s sold from the very cannery I worked in a half mile from my house =] Sardines, 2 cans a for a buck cannot be beat either. 60 grams of quality protein, some calcium, b vitamins, omega 3’s for a damn dollar.

BTW, I agree that bombarding the foodstuff you put in your body with microwave radiation cannot possibly be a good thing. NOBODY is convincing me that the quality of the food is not changed by this and most assuredly not for the better.

36

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Alaskan canned salmon is just about all wild caught and mostly from smaller specimens because that’s what fits through their automated cleaning machines. I worked for Peter Pan seafoods in Valdez and was fortunate enough to witness the whole process from the seining vessel to the can.[/quote]

I think Peter Pan is that same Deming’s brand that another poster mentioned. I had a can of it today! I’ll tell you, it’s superior to the Meijer brand, and only 20 cents more.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
None of this suggets olive oil, avocado, nuts or other monounsaturates should be avoided.[/quote]

I’ll only avoid them because flax oil is superior. It’s the only vegetable oil I researched that has more omega-3 than omega-6! And coconut is the only vegetable oil that had near zero polyunsaturates, and is therefore neutral.

Otherwise, of the omega-6 oils, olive and palm oil are best, followed by avocado oil and nuts.

But, you see, I’ll eat flax oil so that I CAN eat nuts! Sorry, olive oil, you’re just not welcome in me anymore…

[quote]Majin wrote:
That’s why I maintain that part of the strategy should be to cut back on vegetable oils and choose the one’s that have a decent omega3/omega6 ratio, such as Flax, Canola, Walnut, Coconut, Perilla and Hemp oils.[/quote]

Dude, did you see what I found out about canola and walnut oil? They are 4:1 and 5:1, respectively. Hemp oil is still twice what it should be, at 3:1. And they contain significantly more omega-6 than relatively tame olive or plam oil; twice as much for canola and SIX times as much for walnut! Forget that crap about walnut being an omega-3 source. It’s much more an omega-6 source.

Vegetable oils per Kailash:
Stick to flax oil to get omega-3 (offset terrestial meat and nuts), coconut for omega-3 and omega-6 neutrality, or olive oil and palm oil for marginal omega-6 overload.

Maybe eat more fish if you choose that last option, and eschew the chicken and pork? It’s your call. But I’d rather spend my “omega-6 points” on whole foods than olive oil, spank you very much!

37

I thought I read a correlation between flax oil and increased risk of colon or prostate cancer? I think I read it on the Mens Health forums, anybody know anything about it?

38

[quote]Kailash wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alaskan canned salmon is just about all wild caught and mostly from smaller specimens because that’s what fits through their automated cleaning machines. I worked for Peter Pan seafoods in Valdez and was fortunate enough to witness the whole process from the seining vessel to the can.

I think Peter Pan is that same Deming’s brand that another poster mentioned. I had a can of it today! I’ll tell you, it’s superior to the Meijer brand, and only 20 cents more.

jsbrook wrote:
None of this suggets olive oil, avocado, nuts or other monounsaturates should be avoided.

I’ll only avoid them because flax oil is superior. It’s the only vegetable oil I researched that has more omega-3 than omega-6! And coconut is the only vegetable oil that had near zero polyunsaturates, and is therefore neutral.

Otherwise, of the omega-6 oils, olive and palm oil are best, followed by avocado oil and nuts.

But, you see, I’ll eat flax oil so that I CAN eat nuts! Sorry, olive oil, you’re just not welcome in me anymore…

[/quote]

How much Omega-3 do you need? I take 3 flameouts, 15 pills of normal fish oil, eat fish, and use some flax oil. And I still have room in my diet for olive oil, avocado, and nuts. And I think I’m better off for it. I suppose that’s fine if nuts are the only source of monounsaturated fat for you, but I think you’d likely be better off with more. Olive oil and avocado have very LITTLE Omega6 fat. They are mostly monounsaturated Omega9 fats. Many nuts do have more. Walnuts have a lot of Omega6 fat, for example. So, in fact, if you are concerned with getting too much Omega6, you would probably be better swapping some of your nut consumption for things like olive oil and avocado. Not that nuts aren’t healthy too and don’t have a place in your diet.

39

[quote]bw1985 wrote:
I thought I read a correlation between flax oil and increased risk of colon or prostate cancer? I think I read it on the Mens Health forums, anybody know anything about it?[/quote]

Fairly certain the was a study on really old guys. Best thing for a healthy prostate: stimulation & utilization (aka: the orgasm)

40

[quote]Kailash wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alaskan canned salmon is just about all wild caught and mostly from smaller specimens because that’s what fits through their automated cleaning machines. I worked for Peter Pan seafoods in Valdez and was fortunate enough to witness the whole process from the seining vessel to the can.

I think Peter Pan is that same Deming’s brand that another poster mentioned. I had a can of it today! I’ll tell you, it’s superior to the Meijer brand, and only 20 cents more.

[/quote]

Yes, Deming’s in the blue can is Peter Pan salmon. It’ll have the “Distributed By: Peter Pan Seafoods Inc. Seattle, Wa. 98121” emblem next to the UPC code. They have very stringent quality control practices. They even had a lab in the Valdez plant with onsite staff that are constantly testing for contaminants. How thorough it is I don’t know, but they were the royal guard on the floor when I was up there.

They held sway over every decision. They had the authority to stop the canning or freezer lines with a word if they suspected anything, which, believe me is no small thing. They were constantly testing samples from the unloading bay. I guess they figure it’s cheaper to go through all that than being sued and having to do a recall.