I think you’re right. And I believe, back in 1998, Hammer Strength was purchased by another company.
Your attempt to appear “hardcore” has made you look nothing more than ignorant. I don’t know that anyone on this thread is saying that they train solely with machines or even mostly with machines; however, they do recognize that they do have their place.
Yes, compound movements should comprise the bulk of any training regimen, but to say that machine and/or isolation type movements have no place in a trainees workout is just silly. You can do 100 sets of squats, but you'll never fully fatigue your quads, nor will you maximally recruit the fibers in this region. Training with only compound movements is not optimal...there are a number of ways to incorporate isolation movements into a bulking cycle, preferably after compound work is done to ensure maximum fiber recruitment and fatigue. I don't see the need to use these type of tactics on a cutting cycle, however.
D-END I’m not a trainer or renegade. I would use the Nautilus pullover if my gym had one, as I have used them before and they work better than bar pullovers, and I use the Hammer Strength Iso-Lat machine. Have you ever used one of these? They’re not very ‘pussy’ for machine, and only one movement of one day for my current workout uses a machine, the rest is all free weights.
this discussion is kinda silly.
You are correct.
depends on your goals, if you are strictly a bodybuilder or body-4-lifer then some machines have their place in a structured training program. If you are an athlete, and most definitely a renegade training athlete, then D_END is right on the money, machines are about as useless as a 3 dollar bill, and any athlete who trains with them (or trainer who uses hammer machines and such with their “athletes”) has not a clue what he/she is doing. Just depends if you want to look the part or BE the part!
I could name you hundreds of undisputed great athletes of our time that include “some” machines in their training. If you think the act of doing DB snatches [or whatever other lifting exercise] will turn you into an athlete you are sadly mistaken [unless of course you wish to be an olympic lifter]. Play of the game, knowledge of the game, reading opponents will always be a greater aspect than any type of lifting routine. Hate to burst everyone’s bubble.
This thread got me to thinking. Being military, I have been at gyms (if ya can call them that) that have been on both ends of the spectrum. I have been to places where all we had was free weights, sometimes dumbells and sometimes only bars. I have also been to places where all we had was a universal machine that does like 12 different exercises, kinda like the old ones in Jr High :-). Now given the choice I would take the free weights only gym over the machine only, but, I still had some great workouts in ALL of them. And all of them were for 90 days at the least! Even on the old Universal machine for 3 months was cool, better than nothing and I didnt lose any weight during that 3 months either. I say hell as long as you have SOMETHING to get your “swole on” then do it. Hell we all come here because we love to lift for one reason or another. Who gives a shit if not everyone else is doing what you might be doing? Lift big, eat bigger, and sleep whenever you can. Other than that, who cares?
If I may change course a bit and address a more interesting topic, one of the traditional knocks against machines is that they can cause overuse injuries by locking you into a certain plane of movement. How many people feel as though they’ve actually injured themselves directly as a result of overusing machines? Or is this knock against them perhaps overplayed?
you may be right, some athletes may have had success by incorporating machines into their training. However you may just be referring to the genetic freaks who could get by with any training whatsoever. Most renegade athletes are not born with superior genetics, yet they are crushing the competition. They got there through no nonsense training which does not include (or need to include) machines. If you start with a rolls royce its easy to make it better, not the same story when starting with the average chevrolet.
Machine vs Free Weights. Both work, if you work at them. That is the key. How you train should reflect you goals. I am currently doing a verison of the 5x5 routine and have choosen to include machine laterials before my Top Half Presses. Problem is the one more plate and I have maxed out the machine. So I plan to try doing uni-laterial movements starting with half the weight stack and working my way back up. If that doesn’t work I will just keep adding reps until I reach twelve reps for all five sets.
Best of Luck.
I wasn’t trying to be hardcore. I really don’t have much interest in bodybuilding anymore. And for my strength training, I find myself using machines (not counting the reverse hyper) about 0.7% of the time. Most serious strength coaches have also gone this route.
I don’t see the need to incorporate any machine or isolation movements into a strength-based program either. Keep training hard,
-JM
I could be very happy simply squatting, benching, deadlifting, barbell rowing and doing a few other basic compound lifts, to the exclusion of all isolation movements, for the rest of my life. However I recently had an MRI on my shoulder which shows much of the cartilage in the rotator cuff is shredded. The pain is constant and considerable when lifting. Due to our wonderful health system, up here in Canada, it will be Sept. before my appointment with an orthopedic surgeon. Needless to say I’m quite thankful for machines right now. Other than dumbbell bench press and deadlifts, I can do zero free weight work. Just trying to hold the bar on my back for squats (my favourite excercise) is hell. If it was’nt for machines my summer would be shot, as far as training goes. While free weight lifting is preferable, machines have there place, especially when injured.
I too started with machines, but have long since switched to free weights. The only machine I use is the Cybex hack squat (plate loading) machine.
I think some people equate using machines with being soft. Charles Staley’s EDT routines are made of a majority of machine excercises, even for the main compound movements for major muscle groups. And his program is great! Some responses in this thread have sounded that it is impossible to make good gains (size or strength) with machines, but look at the results of EDT (with the original excercises).