Of Mice and Men

Off Topic
21

[quote]RIT Jared wrote:
“You know, its really too bad.”

That’s what I say to myself about 50% of the time that I log onto T-Nation these days. Why? Because it sucks, thats why. It doesn’t suck because of Biotest. Biotest makes great products. It doesn’t suck because of the articles. The writers are top notch. It certainly doesn’t suck because they give away a bunch of free stuff, so amen to T-Jack, and all the recent contests (Grip God) and giveaways (Grow! Bars).

You know why it sucks? It sucks because of us. We as a collective forum have completely forgotten what it is to be hardcore, much less “Dangerously Hardcore”.

Dangerously Hardcore is not making fun of defenseless people. The “Jared from Subway is a Loser” thread? Get real. The same for whichever thread that guy’s younger brother was calling everyone names on.

Dangerously Hardcore is not David fucking D’angelo.

A-FUCKIN-MEN!!!

Dangerously Hardcore is not the powerful image, or the direction the forums have been taking lately. Give me a break. I understand what testosterone is all about. Some girl with giant tits in a skirt doesn’t exactly scream of test to me. I saw the “Best Ass Ever” thread. I saw the Vegita + Xen + Whoever else, T&A battle thread. Maybe one of you can tell me what’s so hardcore about a couple guys posting pictures where we can allllllmost see some twat, or maybe a little nipple, and then 15 other guys patting them on the back. Yea boy, there sure isn’t anything more hardcore than traipsing around T-Nation with your cock at half mast from looking at scantily clad babes. Run for cover, because I’ve almost got a little bit of a boner.

We’ve successfully scared off most of the serious people who used to frequent this site. Goldberg? Haven’t heard from him in a while. Jackass? Rarely, very rarely. Patricia? Probably gone for good.

And we’re in danger of scaring off many more. Do you think that any amateur or semipro woman bodybuilder is going to post pictures on here? Doubtful. Any women powerlifters? Also doubtful… unless they post in their lingere, and then it’s okay. Or maybe even then they’d be accused of having “gross veins” or a humongous clitoris.

So maybe we could bring back a little of that old T-Mag grit, back from when the articles came out on fridays, and when it was cool to have muscles whether you’re a boy or a girl.[/quote]

Applause to you RIT…I was just wondering the same things…but lack the clout you do to make it stick as successfully as you did.

My version was "stop mental mastrubating…live and enjoy life…DO something (there is a WORLD out there…enjoy and experience it) instead of spending hours drooling over finding some scantily clad beeotches. Hell, better yet: find a REAL one (if you have enough T then as many as you want…TRUST me…REAL ones are MUCH better than pictures on the web).

However RIT, you phrased it better, with more conviction, and more meaning that I could have at present time…

Thanks for the bitch slap to everyone, man.

22

Nicely done Jared!

I don’t have much time to post right now, just want to say that you explained everything that bothers me about these forums more succinctly than I could have done, and I’m in complete agreement with the sentiment.

23

I think this whole thread is mental masturbation. If you have a problem with this site you’re probably spending way too much time on it.

Give me a break on the “good ole days” in T-Nation. What a bunch of whiny crap. I agree with Neophorn, a lot of the “ole timers” were prima donnas anyways.

We put these people on pedestals like they were Gods and then cringe in fear that we may have said or done the wrong thing to make them leave. They left because the poured too much of their lives into this site and were disappointed when it didn’t always measure up to the “hardcore” standards; kinda like what some of you are starting to experience that are complaining on this thread.

As for all of the “off” topics, don’t read them. Well, you say, they’re in the Top 10 thread hits. I say that after reading maybe 2 sentences on the thread you can decide whether to finish it or not. And if you have a problem with the discussions going on I have a newsflash for you: create your own. This is a free site. As long as you don’t piss off the mods you can contribute anything you want.

As for the chick pics, get over it. If you don’t like them, turn them off. Everyone is making way too big of a deal over it. Yes, I like looking at chick pics but it doesn’t dominate my agenda of why I frequent this site. I say you’re making a mountain over a molehill. I still like the fact that TC doesn’t apologize for these pics. If he was trying to attract the entire female population, he would have linked T-Nation off of this site: www.oxygen.com.

And for all you who posted chic pics. Don’t apoligize for it and cower in fear just because someone complains about it. You guys act like every other thread on this forum is displaying chic pics when they’re not. I enjoyed those threads like I enjoy a lot of other threads on this forum. Don’t apoligize for wanting to see and post pics of the female body. And for the other female lifters that I do respect on this forum: I would have no problem with you posting your own “hot guy” pics in g-strings. I can tell you I won’t be following the thread but it wouldn’t offend me.

So Jared, your post just came across to me as very whiny and melodramatic and I will be one person on this thread that won’t give you the “attaboys” and “bravos” a few others have felt compelled to give.

24

[quote]randman wrote:
I think this whole thread is mental masturbation. If you have a problem with this site you’re probably spending way too much time on it. [/quote]

Au contraire, my friend. I basically took a month long hiatus from coming here in the hopes that the deluge of meaningless posts and verbal diarrhea would pass.

So what is your solution? That all the “hardcore” people ship out? Give me a break. If T-Nation is not serious/hardcore enough for me, it’s only a matter of time before it becomes too panty-waisted for the likes of you.

[/quote]
As for all of the “off” topics, don’t read them.

As for the chick pics, get over it. [/quote]

Again, it’s not the off topic posts or the chick pics, its that they seem to rival or even surpass the “on topic” posts. I don’t know how to better explain this to you, so you can understand.

[quote]
So Jared, your post just came across to me as very whiny and melodramatic and I will be one person on this thread that won’t give you the “attaboys” and “bravos” a few others have felt compelled to give.[/quote]

Yeah, you’re right. I’m just really whiny and melodramatic. Next week everyone’s invited over to my place to watch “The Notebook” and drink daquiris. You too, ya big lug.

25

rit,

much respect…

what’s the solution?

26

Interesting reading. You all have valid points. I’m not much of a techno type person so I’m surprised to learn that no one else has noticed that if you hold your mouse curser over a topic title in the top ten list it will display the first couple lines of the topic. Where I work, pics of the nature mentioned are very very taboo so I’m real careful exactly where it is my mouse travels.

When I was first referred to this site 3 years ago it was just articles. At least that was all I remembered. Life happened and I am just now getting back to T-Nation and lifting. I was happy to see the forums. I was also incredibly awestruck by the vast knowledge base here. Although I read more in the diet, training type forums I generally don’t reply since I know there are those waaaaaay more knowledgable in the subject than I, who are/will reply.

I think the reason one would see more traffic in the off-topic/sex threads has to do with the fact that the general population has more knowledge and experience in those areas thusly more to contribute. IMHO one of the major reasons I work so hard taking care of myself has to do with sex. Things are much more fun when one is in shape. The likelihood one will find another in which to engage in such activity increases when one is appealing to the eye. In my mind the two travel hand in hand (BB and sex). So I’m not surprised or offended to find it as a part of a site dedicated to BB.

The forums and article discussions played a huge role in my breaking down and purchasing some of the Biotest products. I was pretty happy with the stuff I was using when I first joined up and didn’t really see a need to break the routine. It’s easy for a newcomer to write off much of what is written as slick salesmanship. Which to some extent it is, the discussion and testimonies help validify the claims in the articles. Conversely, once the product articles are read you find yourself looking at articles about routines and nutrition without mention of product and you find yourself thinking that maybe there is something more going on here.

Just my .02$

27

I for one like the variety.

Pick and choose and read what you like. Post a comment if you have a strong feeling about it.

As to losing old timers. Big deal. People move on and choose new directions. As to some of them. Not all. I think primadona was a good word. I mean you would ask a question and get ripped because you didn’t ask it the right way. Or worse some 21 yr. old college kid would dress you down. Give me a break. a lot more variety now.

People make choices all the time and the options these days are endless. I for one like the site and the direction it has now.

28

I guess it all depends on what you are looking for and what your interests are. I for one, would like to see more articles like the very fine benching article and less of the how to pick up girls articles. I realize that TC is trying to make a locker room atmosphere here, but there is a difference between the locker room at Ballys and the locker room at a real gym. I have an analogy for this:
As some of you know, I’m into old motorcycles. Yep, I ride an 1940 Indian. But when folks who don’t ride hear I have motorcylces, they immediately think that I’m into the whole Harley thing. Now don’t get me wrong, I have a very nice panhead, but there is a big difference between the folks who ride vintage and the Harley clones. You see, for the vintage folks it’s about the motorcycles. How they work, their history their restoration and getting them back on the road. You haven’t ridden until you’ve been on a tank shift/foot clutch bike. For the Harley folks, it’s about black T-shirts and some kinda-bullshit lifesytle thing and the motorcycles are secondary and just kinda get you into “the club”. So it depends on what you want. You wanna really know about motorcycles, or do you just wanna dress up and be part of some “in crowd”. So what do you want out of this site? Do you want it to be about lifting and training, or just some sort of silly boys club?
I also suggested on the other thread that they do away with the T-Vixen section and instead have a Novice section. The T-Vixen section gets two kinds of posts: how do I get laid/make up with my girlfriend or do I set up a program for my wife/girlfriend. The sex questions could be posted in the sex section and the newbies questions posted in the novice section. I really don’t think women need a separate section as they have the same training questions and problems that the men do. Aside from having less testosterone, our bodies build muscle the same way a mans does.
There’s my input.

29

RIT’s post seems beside the point.

My level of erudition about lifting topics has not suffered because of the off topic and sex threads; even if I were to read only from the top 10 list I would still find interesting topics most of the time. Given that you can browse further (and there are the forum roundtables), it should not be hard to find a good discussion.

The off topic and sex thread proliferation seems like an unlikely whipping boy when you consider that a cornerstone of this site, Atomic Dog, clearly “lives for that shit”. If we wanted to pick on something or someone, I would have expected the recent issue with low-LBM individuals defending their annoying body compostion goals to have taken the prize. To me that is way worse for this site than Vegita’s bottomless pit of nearly nude women.

T-Nation remains my time waster of choice. I’m not sure what your expectations are, but mine are largely met.

30

RIT

Your whining supplication was ‘dangerously hardcore’.

31

[quote]Orbitalboner wrote:
Your whining supplication was ‘dangerously hardcore’.[/quote]

Are you calling me out or RIT?

32

[quote]dond1esel wrote:
Orbitalboner wrote:
Your whining supplication was ‘dangerously hardcore’.

Are you calling me out or RIT?[/quote]

I’m the only one that’s allowed to “call people out” :slight_smile:

33

I can agree with RITJared on one point. I miss the good ole days of Friday articles. New Atomic Dog, new Reader mail, new articles.

Not that there’s not the same quality of articles, I just miss the anticipation, and the Christmas morning-like excitement when the new ‘issue’ finally loaded.

As for the forum content…

I live in the middle of BFE. With the exception of the school’s football coach, there is not another iron freak within a 100 mile radius of my house - atleast 100 miles.

So I liken T-Nation to a place where I can interact with folks that are at least in the same ball park wrt to training/nutrition/fitness goals. I’m not always going to talk about training and diet.

That’s not to say I don’t read or post in ‘hardcore’ forums, but I post in the political forums on rare occasion because I happen to think that it is one of the best political forums on the net.

I would like to see less of the teen-aged newbie getting on here and basically trolling. I’d like to see a more discussions on AAS beyond, “How does this cycle look?” I’d like to see more pics in the photo section containing BOTH before and AFTER pics. I’d like a disclaimer on the front page of the website that warns that the boy-band look will be persecuted.

But that’s just me.

34

I fully agree with Jared.

[quote]hedo wrote:
As to losing old timers. Big deal. People move on and choose new directions. As to some of them. Not all. I think primadona was a good word. I mean you would ask a question and get ripped because you didn’t ask it the right way. Or worse some 21 yr. old college kid would dress you down. Give me a break. a lot more variety now.[/quote]

Some 21 year-old college kids can and should dress you down. A great many people lift for a few years and read some popular publications, then think they’re informed gurus. They’re usually wrong about most everything.

I’m 21 and a student of Exercise Science at a fairly well-respected university. I’ve also interned and talked training with some of the top strongman guys in the sport, and competed myself. I also take the time to read scientific literature and have learned the basic structure of skeletal muscle and cardiac anatomy. I have a pretty good idea of how the heart and muscles ACTUALLY work and how to prevent disease, as well as biomechanical principles regarding force production and injury prevention. I don’t think I’m going too far when I say I should be listened to above some guy who’s been training in his basement for 5 years reading ONLY this site and a magazine like PL USA (they do have some great articles, though). There are certainly others who know far more than me who should be listened to prior, but all authority should be questioned so that the underlying knowledge and assumptions are known.

That being said, many people without degrees are very smart and well versed in anatomy and physiology, I fully recognize and respect that. The two guys I interned with in strongman don’t have degrees but are very knowledgable in the field, definately moreso than I am right now (I’m gunnin’ for 'em, though).

The problem is the inability to discern the wheat from the chaff on some of these boards. A rating system needs to be established regarding expertise - for example, a 5 star rating system. Noobies get 1 star and can prove their way up to 5 if they show they have the correct knowledge. No grandfather clause.

I personally feel the articles have been mostly slipping lately, too. Maybe 2 of 5 are really intelligent articles that are well written and not muscle mag, superfantasticised, mediocre info. I’d like to see more of the reasoning behind many of the programs rather than a simple layout or some macho blustering.

I plan on doing a study on the effects of weight training on cardiovascular benefits and factors related to heart disease next spring. I’ll submit it for publication here as well as the professional journals when I’m done.

I know I said in another thread I was leaving (for any who really care that much, probably none), but Jared’s thread gave me hope.

I also wish Biotest would be honest about the previous use of the compounds in their supplements and not overblow their effects (the active ingredient in Spike and the micellular casein come to mind).

-Dan

35

Buffalo

Thanks for proving my point. Your credentials are impressive…for a kid.

I am an about twice your age and have been lifting for about as long as you are old. Actually longer maybe about 25 yrs.

You don’t want to go there regarding education…trust me. I won’t bore you with degrees or life experience.

Unfortunately a lot of the old timers on this board were exactly like you. “I almost graduated with a degree…let me give you my expert opinion after you stroke me about how cool I am”

Can and should dress me down. Not in this lifetime son. To me that is truly funny. You’ll get it one day…maybe after you do something important, like getting a job.

Focus on the topic. It was about the website and how it has changed.

36

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
Some 21 year-old college kids can and should dress you down. A great many people lift for a few years and read some popular publications, then think they’re informed gurus. They’re usually wrong about most everything.
[/quote]

I don’t know who you are referring to - but you smell just like a know-it-all college kid. I’ve eaten punks like you for breakfast and you taste just like you smell - like shit.

When you actually accomplish something beyond making it to class on time, then you can strut your tail-feathers in everyone’s faces.

Until then spare me the I’m-smarter than-everyone-on-here-because-mommy-and-daddy-can-send-me-to-a-good-school B.S.

Just the idea that you think you have more to bring to the table than C.W., C.T., Dr. Ryan, or any of the other contributors is laughable.

37

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
I plan on doing a study on the effects of weight training on cardiovascular benefits and factors related to heart disease next spring. I’ll submit it for publication here as well as the professional journals when I’m done.

I also wish Biotest would be honest about the previous use of the compounds in their supplements and not overblow their effects (the active ingredient in Spike and the micellular casein come to mind).

-Dan[/quote]

Life lesson number one, boy. Don’t accuse a company of being dishonest then ask them to pay you for an article. You gripe about Biotest. And how will you be paid for your article? Biotest profits. Except of course it won’t be published because you accused the site of being dishonest and I’m sure they really don’t appreciate that. Dumb fucking kid.

It’s okay. We all knew everything at age 21 too. Reality will hit when you enter the real world. You’ll even look back yourself and think, boy, was I a dumb fucking kid or what?

38

[quote]Orbitalboner wrote:
RIT

Your whining supplication was ‘dangerously hardcore’.[/quote]

I nearly pissed myself after reading that.

39

This thread is great, it’s a bitch and moan fest and everyone is invited! Buffalo, you’ve learned basic anatomy and skeletal structure, and how the muscles ACTUALLY work. Whoa, this guy is a pro, and he’s leaving! Oh no, we’vegottodosomethingquicksomebodystophim!!!

I’m not quite sure what you mean by leaving, but I’m taking it in the ‘disgruntled teenager threatening to leave home’ sense. I still don’t see what the problem is with this site, it’s free, you morons. If you can’t discern the wheat from the chaff, that’s the fault of your own bumbling intellect.

40


On what RIT Jared wrote:
I feel you! It has gotten a bit childish around here. I would love to beat down the doors of some of these low-lifes who have nothing better to do than respond… respond… respond… with insults, ridicual and “Illusions of Grandeaur”.

I would like to see more filtering of useless and systematically worthless responses I have seen of late.

I was turned on to this site from the idea of it being “Testosterone Nation”. What a concept! The “Alpha Male” supplement that reared its intimidating head just drew me in closer. I love the, “My Name is Spike And I’m Here to Blow Your Head Off!”, advertisement as well. Hell, every product is insanely exciting. I can’t sleep because I can’t wait for my 2lbs. of Surge to show up at my doorstep!

I’m a full-blown male with enough testosterone to bulk-up a fucking 1200lb thoroughbred! Let’s talk about being hard-core! Let’s talk about the addrenaline rush you get after weaving your sports-bike through rush-hour doing 145 MPH!!! Let’s talk about how you flipped over your trashy neighbor’s car because it was parked in your spot!!!

Trolls, do me a favor and save your pathetic, rusting, insults toward this entire thread. If you insult this man, you insult yourself as a man!!!