[quote]Deorum wrote:
No, I have a stricter moral code than Christians. It, however is not one founded in keeping my progress chained. You don’t need the Christian Bible to give you morals… STOP with this weak bullshit!
I spit on the idea of blind faith in this piece of shit book and the self deceit that it implies.
Edit: I almost feel guilty as my debating has grown less toying and more serious… It doesn’t quite seem fair. I would honestly almost want a disclaimer on the thread of some sort to keep out any who would not want to hear such a debate on their religion. I can understand that some do not, but seeing as the people who are in here are willing to fight for it, I am feeling less and less moral conflict with giving them the debate they want. They will likely put their fingers in their ears and shout anyway… Regardless I’m done holding back punches for now. I’ll probably take another leave if it gets to the point where it did before where the meaning of the debate was lost in personal attacks.
[/quote]
I presume you’re an atheist then?
If that is the case, then according to your naturalistic materialistic world view, we are the product of evolution just like every other creature. And if thats the case then what is the logic behind morals, considering no other animal has a moral code like we do? According to your view morals shouldn’t even exist. The only thing that is “good” is to make sure that your genes can survive and be passed down to the next generation.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
No, I have a stricter moral code than Christians. It, however is not one founded in keeping my progress chained. You don’t need the Christian Bible to give you morals… STOP with this weak bullshit!
I spit on the idea of blind faith in this piece of shit book and the self deceit that it implies.
Edit: I almost feel guilty as my debating has grown less toying and more serious… It doesn’t quite seem fair. I would honestly almost want a disclaimer on the thread of some sort to keep out any who would not want to hear such a debate on their religion. I can understand that some do not, but seeing as the people who are in here are willing to fight for it, I am feeling less and less moral conflict with giving them the debate they want. They will likely put their fingers in their ears and shout anyway… Regardless I’m done holding back punches for now. I’ll probably take another leave if it gets to the point where it did before where the meaning of the debate was lost in personal attacks.
[/quote]
I presume you’re an atheist then?
If that is the case, then according to your naturalistic materialistic world view, we are the product of evolution just like every other creature. And if thats the case then what is the logic behind morals, considering no other animal has a moral code like we do? According to your view morals shouldn’t even exist. The only thing that is “good” is to make sure that your genes can survive and be passed down to the next generation.[/quote]
… Jesus. So because no other animal is complex enough to develop a moral code for living that means I can’t? Listen if you want to put yourself on the same mental plane as the rest of the animals go ahead but that is a horribly weak argument. Furthermore I do have a god…
“naturalistic materialistic world view” …wtf? HELLLOOOO thaaar oxymoron, nice to meet you!
You don’t have to throw in words that are over your head just to match the vocabulary I might use… My vocabulary doesn’t make my argument any stronger or weaker it is just the language I am most comfortable using. That kind of shit is just going to distract from your argument.
There’s only one way, and that is accepting Christ’s great sacrifice on the cross. He died for your sins so that you wouldn’t have to rely on being “good” because as flawed human beings we can never be good enough.
[/quote]
I went to church every sunday for like 12 years, but this has always been lost on me. I just don’t “get it”. I don’t get the sacrifice. God could always create another son, i mean he sacrificed his only son because it was the only son he decided to create. And I can only assume god had a plan in mind when he did it (who was it that says god doesn’t play dice?), so he knew jesus would end up “at his right hand”. Like, I really don’t understand what the great sacrifice was if jesus was the embodiment of god and was eternal anyway and died but was just gonna be reborn and ascend. I mean seriously, i don’t understand the significance of this.
If that is the case, then according to your naturalistic materialistic world view, we are the product of evolution just like every other creature. And if thats the case then what is the logic behind morals, considering no other animal has a moral code like we do? According to your view morals shouldn’t even exist. The only thing that is “good” is to make sure that your genes can survive and be passed down to the next generation.[/quote]
You know that most disease used to be considered demonic possession or divine punishment, right? (don’t worry, I’m going somewhere with this)
Straw-man, straw-man, straw-man. You should really work on that relationship with your father. Now that I got that out of the way, why don’t I school you on what the actual Seven Deadly sins mean, because your retarded self just made a fool of yourself with your lack of education.
To preface this, it is important to keep in mind the constrictive nature of the Christian religion. Nobody in the Church has your best interest in mind. That is why they have all the riches in the world and your a poor slob.
Greed - what is wrong with wanting more than you already have? All Christians are definitely using this sin everyday in their lives(hell the church is hoarding more gold than any other organization in the world - they definitely aren’t following this principle)
[/quote]
Greed is not wanting more, Greed is the love of money. And, by the way I challenge you to prove that the Church is hoarding more gold than any other organisation in the world. You need to put the Dan Brown books down, in case you’re wondering those are fiction. The Vatican has a budget the size of the entire Diocese of Chicago and runs a deficit every year.
Again, your ignorance shines through. Pride has nothing to do with making sure you look good, or your family name is honorable, or that your son goes to Yale. Pride is the capital sin in which we believe we are our own source of power.
[quote]
Envy - Envy is seeing what other people have and wanting the same, if not better, for yourself. AMBITION is the combination of Envy and Greed. Ambition is the driving force of all humans.[/quote]
Um, no Envy is not seeing what someone has and wanting it or better, that is called jealousy. Envy is is the theological sin in which we wish demise of someone else’s gifts.
Actually, Wrath is what is considered the capital sin, which includes Anger. Anger with the use of reason is not a sin, but wrath the theological capital is a desire of vengeance without reason.
Again your complete and utter ignorance is laughable. Instead of making shit up, maybe you should read what the “Church” says these things are because she is the one that teaches them is she not? Well let’s look at what Gluttony is, Gluttony is the theological capital sin in which one eats or drinks too soon, too expensively, too much, too eagerly, too daintily in a way that injures ones health or impair the mental equipment needed for the discharge of his duties.
No, that is not the theological capital sin of Sloth. That is the sin of lying. If a man is resting, then it is not sloth. The theological capital sin of sloth, is having a don’t care attitude. Or a more clean understanding for those on here, when confronted with right living (eating right, sleeping right, training right, &c.) instead of being filled with joy, you are filled with disgust because it may be harder than going with the flow.
[quote]
Lust - …We all lust for women… or men… Not many of us are enochs but I could honestly care less about this sin. [/quote]
If these were any more backwards, I would presume you were a Satanist as their capital virtues or our capital sins. You do not have to be a eunuch (not Enoch, Enoch is a country) to not commit the capital sin of Lust. Finding a woman attractive is not lust, it is finding a woman attractive. However, the Capital sin of lust is an inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.
Those definitions you used are not sins, that is because you’re an ignorant fool who twists words and has a daddy issue. It’s not your fault, I assure you. But next time you try to prove religion wrong, do your own research and stop listening to other people who have daddy issues.
Brother Chris… You literally built an entire rebuttal on semantics… That was disturbing… Do you have anything pertaining to human thought to say? This is not a word game stop turning it into one.
You literally did not address a single thing that I said… That could not have been a serious response? I do not know if I am supposed to laugh? Was that a joke? Honestly tell me.
It seems the more outspoken you Christians are… the less logical… This is honestly something of a discovery for me. You actually seem to think you have said something marvelous in response to what I have said as well… I do not know what to tell you? I think however, everybody knows how to define those sins for themselves. You do not need to do so for them. That pretty much destroys your whole argument… That was still disturbing though…
And what is this daddy issue that you keep projecting on me? Do you have something you wish to share with us? It is ironic that it is the Christian here desperately trying to attack my person, while I calmly address his illogical ramblings. Another little tidbit you threw out there was that apparently the church is not hoarding riches… Is this a joke as well? Walk into the Vatican and you will see gold in the art pieces alone that is worth more than a small country’s entire national budget… and for what its worth only an estimated 10% is even on display… the other 90% is locked away in vaults… And that is just the ART - Not even the real riches. Now, what on Earth are you even talking about? You seem to be going on with the ramblings of a mad man.
And to clarify, I purposely did NOT define ANY of those sins. I showed how these sins are part of everyday life. The individual knows what they are. Your obsessive need at defining them all is showing of how you in fact are the one trying to twist words… more projection…
In conclusion, I think everybody reading here can look at those sins for themselves, disregarding any definition you gave or I might have implied and see the point of Exhibit B. The point is, Christianity has actually made us think that those sins are BAD somehow. It is clear that they are not. We need greed, we need pride, we need envy, we need anger, we need to be gluttonous, we need to be slothful, we need lust - the use of all of these things are how we as man better ourselves - how we grow, mentally AND physically. And you use all of these sins too Chris. You just like to berate yourself for them.
PS Next time you quote me, quote the whole thing. Your breaking of my words in an attempt to put them out of context, as if I ever tried to define anything, is sickening. Be a man - stop being a boy.
Now I ask, Why are these “sins” again? Somebody inform me why I should avoid these behaviors. Furthermore, tell me as Christians why NONE of you avoid any of these sins - don’t say because you accepted jesus and you don’t NEED to any more. That is the weak minded cop out that I would expect from a Christian. Even if you don’t need to follow these because you accepted Jesus you should still strive to match your god’s image, no? Are you guys really striving to be God-like? If not, why?
Let me repost that for Chris. Actually answer the questions this time. Why are these sins, why should I avoid them, and why DON’T you as a Christian avoid them?
Hint Chris will come back with a question avoiding response, based in semantics - filled with personal attacks and distracting facts intertwined with absolute falsehoods. Regardless it is not about Chris. He is a lost soul. The point is for the rest of you to start thinking using YOUR own brains.
“With that said, I can see this is going no where so I’ll bow out. I’m not trying to make you mad”. Believe me Im not getting mad. Every time I back a christian into a corner to where they realize they can no longer logicaly defend their beliefs and “bow out” I feel a great sense of accomplishment, and actually enjoy having these convos. I know I will see you popping back up in these debates anyways. You cant help but try and preach the word to us lost souls.[/quote]
Don’t pat yourself on your back boy, you’ve done nothing but show your ignorance. The reason I was bowing out was because at this point in your life you’re not interested in listening to what I have to say. I’ve actually had religious debates on this very forum that have lasted for months, literally. So don’t walk away with any sort of feeling of accomplishment all you’ve done is act rudely to my many overtures of graciousness. If this is the way you want to live your life, who am I to stop you?
Here is a question that I love asking christians who use that word. Context. Sense every bad thing that the bible says is apparently taken out of context could you please provide one or two good things which the bible claims which are taken out of context.[/quote]
And what ignorant atheists do is take everything out of context in order to demean the word of God. Lawyers do that as well when they are trying to get their guilty client off with an easier sentence. It’s a very old argumentation tool. The funny part is that you don’t even know you’re doing it because you are ignorant of what the Bible really has to say. As I’ve told you, read the book and then you’ll actually have the ammunition to attack it. If you don’t read it you are bound to say dumb things as you did about those who can enter the kingdom of heaven. I know you think you’re smart but you’re coming off as terribly ignorant. But anyone would with your lack of knowledge.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
I often say things like Jesus Fucking Mary Christ in jest… It’s a sick joke.[/quote]
I understand.
So, tell me who or what is your god?[/quote]
But of course, I am my own god. [/quote]
WOW a 19 year old God. LMAO!
[/quote]
Ain’t that something? Being your own god. Being the creator of your own moral codes. Setting guidelines for yourself to follow, based on what you have experience thus far in your life. Not praying for anybody to do something for you, making it happen yourself. How absolutely insane right!!!
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Now I ask, Why are these “sins” again? Somebody inform me why I should avoid these behaviors. Furthermore, tell me as Christians why NONE of you avoid any of these sins - don’t say because you accepted jesus and you don’t NEED to any more. That is the weak minded cop out that I would expect from a Christian. Even if you don’t need to follow these because you accepted Jesus you should still strive to match your god’s image, no? Are you guys really striving to be God-like? If not, why?
Let me repost that for Chris. Actually answer the questions this time. Why are these sins, why should I avoid them, and why DON’T you as a Christian avoid them?[/quote]
Damn dude, I’m no church goer but your shit is wearing thin with me too. I really don’t like religion either, but it’s been around for some form or fashion forever and it’s not going anywhere.
Anyway, for all practical purposes the way I see it is that they become “sins” when they negatively affect your life or the lives of those around you. If you’re not religious then there’s really no reason to avoid them other than they’ll get you into trouble if taken too far.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
I often say things like Jesus Fucking Mary Christ in jest… It’s a sick joke.[/quote]
I understand.
So, tell me who or what is your god?[/quote]
But of course, I am my own god. [/quote]
WOW a 19 year old God. LMAO!
[/quote]
Ain’t that something? Being your own god. Being the creator of your own moral codes. Setting guidelines for yourself to follow, based on what you have experience thus far in your life. Not praying for anybody to do something for you, making it happen yourself. How absolutely insane right!!!
[/quote]
While I believe as strongly as anyone that you should take responsibility for all aspects of your own life, no man is an island. And you do come off as a little insane.