Obtuse Religious Philosophy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
I need to fix this for you.

You: “Hey God! How can you, who claim to be love itself, send me to this terrible place?”

God: “I provided a way for you to be saved. You rejected it”

You: “Ya well you gave me this brain which you knew in advance that I would use to question things that made no sense to me, and then when I asked for you to give me a sign that you were actually there, more times than I can count I might add, you shunned me. Why did you bother to create me at all knowing in advance you were going to send me to hell?”

God: “…” [/quote]

Everyone has the same opportunity to come to Christ. You and I are no different in that respect. When you ask for a sign he gave you one. Did you miss it?
[/quote]

If he actually gave me a sign then he is a pretty pathetic excuse for a god. [/quote]

First, I always wonder where the hate comes from toward God? I see very few atheists who do not behave this way. If I don’t like something I don’t have to hate it. I don’t eat tomatoes, but I can see why others might like them. I’m not a big fan of Oprah Winfrey but I wish her no harm. Maybe it’s just the young male hubris which must scream out their beliefs, or in this case disbeliefs.

Secondly, your sign was that God gave us Jesus Christ, his only begotten son. Through belief in him all sins are forgiven. There is no greater gift and no greater sign.

[/quote]

I dont hate that which I do not believe in. I dont hate god any more than I do santa. I do, however, hate the people who have the nerve to tell me that I am a bad person and deserve to burn in hell for all of eternity because I dont buy into their belief system. I hate the people who attempt to use religion as an excuse for them to try and control the lives of others, I.E. gay rights for example, but thats a whole different thread. Again, I hate the effects that the belief in god has on people, and the people who take it so to heart they they cause others pain, whether it be physically or emotionally. I do not hate god.

102

Nothing is sacred about the word of any religious text. They are the work of man and nothing more. Using this same man made book as evidence of its holiness is accepting another man as god. This is the weakness that is so clearly projected in the words and actions of Christians - not that they are any weaker than most of their counterparts. However salvation to a higher mental plane is out there… And I’m not speaking in allegory like a certain savior of man. I could not be more direct.

What is this weakness? This weakness is manifested in “Fate” for instance. Instead of being a man of responsibility and action, the christian falls back into “fate” or “god’s divine will” when he deems himself to weak to take any action. Prayer… Oh god. Prayer is another manifestation of this weakness. Instead of actually taking action to better their situation, Christians actually sit by their bed at night and pray… as in they ask somebody else to better their situation for them… I am getting more and more disgusted as I type… Furthermore, and perhaps one of the most important manifestations, is the Christian idea of divine forgiveness. Have you actually forgot that in past times you would only be forgiven by your god if you had enough money? Now, money aside, you still have to ask your god to forgive the mistakes you have made. This is nothing less than absolute zero character. When one makes a mistake(sin - whatever the fuck you want to call it) it is his personal responsibility to forgive himself of the actions - not through grovelling to a higher power, through intelligent reasoning. This idea of being able to personally distinguish your mistakes from your triumphs - with no god but yourself telling you what “sin” is - is the formal precursor to mental growth… something Christians have been limiting their own for eons.

103

Exhibit B:

The Seven Deadly Sins: Greed, Pride, Envy, Anger, Gluttony, Lust, Sloth

To preface this, it is important to keep in mind the constrictive nature of the Christian religion. Nobody in the Church has your best interest in mind. That is why they have all the riches in the world and your a poor slob.

Greed - what is wrong with wanting more than you already have? All Christians are definitely using this sin everyday in their lives(hell the church is hoarding more gold than any other organization in the world - they definitely aren’t following this principle)

Pride - Everyday when you get up and put on your Armani suit, or your polo button up, or whatever you wear - your using this sin to better your outward appearance. Hell this is a BODYBUILDING site. You all love this deadly sin

Envy - Envy is seeing what other people have and wanting the same, if not better, for yourself. AMBITION is the combination of Envy and Greed. Ambition is the driving force of all humans.

Anger - Anger is an evolved device to protect ourselves in times of danger. If somebody else is jeopardizing our self, we grow angry - this is the catalyst and motivating force behind keeping ourselves safe. Christianity would actually have you sit their and let a man put a gun down your throat with no self defensive action… I spit on this.

Gluttony - This is simply eating more than you need to survive… We are a bodybuilding site… Not much more needs to be said. However gluttony is a natural process to keep us alive in times when food might not be so plentiful. It is also a metaphor for other manifestations of similar ideas…(and if you get fat pride will have you lose the weight)

Sloth - When you get up in the morning and call out sick - when your not really sick - this is sloth. There is nothing wrong with taking time to rest your body. The man that wisely rests, wisely grows.

Lust - …We all lust for women… or men… Not many of us are enochs but I could honestly care less about this sin.

Now I ask, Why are these “sins” again? Somebody inform me why I should avoid these behaviors. Furthermore, tell me as Christians why NONE of you avoid any of these sins - don’t say because you accepted jesus and you don’t NEED to any more. That is the weak minded cop out that I would expect from a Christian. Even if you don’t need to follow these because you accepted Jesus you should still strive to match your god’s image, no? Are you guys really striving to be God-like? If not, why?

104

[quote]Deorum wrote:
This idea of being able to personally distinguish your mistakes from your triumphs - with no god but yourself telling you what “sin” is - is the formal precursor to mental growth… something Christians have been limiting their own for eons. [/quote]

With no moral grounding, anything is acceptable. How would you concieve what is right from what is wrong? You might not even feel the need to obey the law. It seems to me this would be the formal precursor not to mental growth, but to mental illness.

So a Christian is wrong in your opinion, but a sociopath is not?

105

No, I have a stricter moral code than Christians. It, however is not one founded in keeping my progress chained. You don’t need the Christian Bible to give you morals… STOP with this weak bullshit!

I spit on the idea of blind faith in this piece of shit book and the self deceit that it implies.

Edit: I almost feel guilty as my debating has grown less toying and more serious… It doesn’t quite seem fair. I would honestly almost want a disclaimer on the thread of some sort to keep out any who would not want to hear such a debate on their religion. I can understand that some do not, but seeing as the people who are in here are willing to fight for it, I am feeling less and less moral conflict with giving them the debate they want. They will likely put their fingers in their ears and shout anyway… Regardless I’m done holding back punches for now. I’ll probably take another leave if it gets to the point where it did before where the meaning of the debate was lost in personal attacks.

106

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Deorum wrote:
This idea of being able to personally distinguish your mistakes from your triumphs - with no god but yourself telling you what “sin” is - is the formal precursor to mental growth… something Christians have been limiting their own for eons. [/quote]

With no moral grounding, anything is acceptable. How would you concieve what is right from what is wrong? You might not even feel the need to obey the law. It seems to me this would be the formal precursor not to mental growth, but to mental illness.

So a Christian is wrong in your opinion, but a sociopath is not?[/quote]

Moral grounding NOT based on stupid book about magical fruit and talking snakes =/= no moral grounding.

Please dont pull the “If you dont get your morals from MY bible, you have no morals at all!” nonsensical false dichotomy.

107

[quote]Deorum wrote:

Anger - Anger is an evolved device to protect ourselves in times of danger. If somebody else is jeopardizing our self, we grow angry - this is the catalyst and motivating force behind keeping ourselves safe. Christianity would actually have you sit their and let a man put a gun down your throat with no self defensive action… I spit on this.
[/quote]

This is scientism. You are using evolutionnary sociology, the theory of evolution to justify an action. Humans are more than animals and this theory fits well with Animal. If you try to justify anything with this it implies that you are an animal. If so then you suck.

108

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
With no moral grounding, anything is acceptable. How would you concieve what is right from what is wrong? You might not even feel the need to obey the law. It seems to me this would be the formal precursor not to mental growth, but to mental illness.

not?[/quote]

I am not religious and I feel the need to obey the law. I know what is right and what is wrong. I am probably straighter than a lot of christians, muslims or whatever. Your construction doesnt stand to reality. You need to get in touch with it.

Religion is a virus of the brain. You were probably introduced to it by your parents when you were a kid and now your brain is permanently molded to it. I am glad it wasnt my case. It’s not your fault tought.

109

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

Whether I have read it cover to cover is irrelevent.[/quote]

And herein lies a good portion of the problem with many atheists. I have read this response many times from those who speak out against Christianity. It only makes sense to me to fully read and understand something before it is rejected out of hand. How foolish this response would be if they were critiquing anything else, be it a workout book, a novel or any other piece of literature. But when it comes to the Bible there are such strong emotions attached to the end point that many simply turn away without looking closely at the rich history and facts that it provides. Rather hiding behind a storm of invective pros.

Question: “Have you read the book?”

Answer: “No but that’s not necessary in order to dedicate part of my life to bashing what it says.”

How very foolish, you’re smarter than that. Take some time and study the book before deciding whether God exists or not. There is no more important decision in your life treat it as such.

[/quote]

Thank you for this response. You just made my point for me. Lets use the workout book comparison sense thats the example you chose. The end result is what we are comparing here. Workout book: Read and practice this book and this will be the end result–> Body builder, t-vixen or what have you.
Bible: Read and practice this book and this will be the end result–> God gives his son up for sacrifice. You are not allowed to work on the sabath, and the punishment for doing so…death by stoning. If your child acts out…death by stoning. If you dont believe in me and worship me…tortured in hell for all eternity. I can go on and on. This type of behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse, all of which are in the bible, can not be justified by saying that some god says itÃ??Ã?¢??s OK. I DO NOT have to read the bible cover to cover to look at the end result and realize how Immoral of a book it actually is.
How very foolish of me you say. Let me clarify for you. Even if this god you believe in does exist, then he is an egotistical tyrant with a taste for blood and an absolutely ridiculous set of rules he expects us to follow, and I have no desire what so ever to worship a being such as that. If you do well thats your prerogative.[/quote]

Hold on there slow down my friend. You are the one who has just proved my point. The stoning’s that you speak of happened in the Old Testament. If you would have read on you would have realized that all of that ended when Jesus Christ entered the scene. It’s not about retribution anymore. With Christ it is about forgiveness. Just as he protected the whore from being stoned to death in the street. He said “let him without sin cast the first stone.” In that statement alone we see that Christ is aware that we are all sinners. He then said “go and sin no more.” In other words turn from your sin life toward the one who saved you, Christ.

You really need to read the book. Honestly you’re a bright guy if you read the book you may not become a Christian, but you would at least have a better understanding of how to bash Christianity.

Seriously give it a read, what can it hurt? Try beginning in Proverbs, very cool stuff.[/quote]

“The stoning’s that you speak of happened in the Old Testament”…and another falls victim to the old/new testament trap. If you want to go that route then let me quote a NEW tesament statement said by jesus. “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” Luke 16:17. He goes on to say that those who break the least of the laws will be the least allowed into heaven. On this same note, if you say that the old testament laws are invalid then that means that the 10 commandments are invalid as they are old testament documents.[/quote]

I never said that the old laws were invalid. What I said was that with Jesus Christ arrival things changed. One more thing Christ was talking to those who had not yet accepted him. In other words one must be perfect (by all laws) to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Now is that possible? No. Therefore, one must accept Christ as the savior.

It really helps if you read the entire book and not take things out of context.

110

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
I dont hate that which I do not believe in. I dont hate god any more than I do santa.[/quote]

Really? How many times have you called Santa hateful? How many times have you attacked his being? There is a reason for your rebellion.

I’m sure you’ve been told this before but it’s not me, or anyone else that is saying it. It is biblical. If you do not accept Christ you will spend eternity in hell. And it has nothing to do with you being a worse person than me or anyone else. We are all sinners. You’ve lied and done other things that are sinful. You need forgiveness, you cannot make it to heaven on your own. That’s why Jesus Christ came, to save. So don’t take it so personally you are choosing what you want to do and there are consequences according to the Christian Bible. Simple.

Here’s a fact, there is right and wrong. You may be right on some issues and wrong on others, the same with me. When people adapt a view that everything is good and it depends on the person, well I have to disagree. As I said there are certain things that are wrong and no matter who you are you cannot change that.

With that said, I can see this is going no where so I’ll bow out. I’m not trying to make you mad. Take care and if you get the opportunity try to read the Bible from cover to cover.

All The Best To You,

Zeb

111

Honestly nobody should even bother debating ZEB. He uses the same book that is in question as evidence of its truth. He has absolutely no logic - this is the end result of Christianity and it is what I am trying to fight. Simply look at him and realize this is the end result of Christianity - lost in self deceit.

Some days I can laugh at them… Other days it disgusts me… Other days it saddens my heart very much to see his type of behavior. I hope those standing at an objective enough perspective are starting to see why I am the way I am… I am not trying to be condescending, honestly.

112

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Nothing is sacred about the word of any religious text.[/quote]

Says the 19 year old from Jersey. In a few years you’ll look back and wonder how anyone could tolerate you.

Bye.

113

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Deorum wrote:
This idea of being able to personally distinguish your mistakes from your triumphs - with no god but yourself telling you what “sin” is - is the formal precursor to mental growth… something Christians have been limiting their own for eons. [/quote]

With no moral grounding, anything is acceptable. How would you concieve what is right from what is wrong? You might not even feel the need to obey the law. It seems to me this would be the formal precursor not to mental growth, but to mental illness.

So a Christian is wrong in your opinion, but a sociopath is not?[/quote]

Moral grounding NOT based on stupid book about magical fruit and talking snakes =/= no moral grounding.

Please dont pull the “If you dont get your morals from MY bible, you have no morals at all!” nonsensical false dichotomy.[/quote]

Like you know what is reall from what is not. LOL …

114

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Deorum wrote:
This idea of being able to personally distinguish your mistakes from your triumphs - with no god but yourself telling you what “sin” is - is the formal precursor to mental growth… something Christians have been limiting their own for eons. [/quote]

With no moral grounding, anything is acceptable. How would you concieve what is right from what is wrong? You might not even feel the need to obey the law. It seems to me this would be the formal precursor not to mental growth, but to mental illness.

So a Christian is wrong in your opinion, but a sociopath is not?[/quote]

Funny, because I think that a Christian who wishes to remain true to his faith might not feel the need to obey the law quite often.

Of course in reality who feel the need for an outside moral authority are often not very discerning where they get their orders from.

115

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
I dont hate that which I do not believe in. I dont hate god any more than I do santa.[/quote]

Really? How many times have you called Santa hateful? How many times have you attacked his being? There is a reason for your rebellion.

I’m sure you’ve been told this before but it’s not me, or anyone else that is saying it. It is biblical. If you do not accept Christ you will spend eternity in hell. And it has nothing to do with you being a worse person than me or anyone else. We are all sinners. You’ve lied and done other things that are sinful. You need forgiveness, you cannot make it to heaven on your own. That’s why Jesus Christ came, to save. So don’t take it so personally you are choosing what you want to do and there are consequences according to the Christian Bible. Simple.

Here’s a fact, there is right and wrong. You may be right on some issues and wrong on others, the same with me. When people adapt a view that everything is good and it depends on the person, well I have to disagree. As I said there are certain things that are wrong and no matter who you are you cannot change that.

With that said, I can see this is going no where so I’ll bow out. I’m not trying to make you mad. Take care and if you get the opportunity try to read the Bible from cover to cover.

All The Best To You,

Zeb
[/quote]

“Really? How many times have you called Santa hateful?” Never. I always thought he was a pretty cool guys sense I thought he was bringing me presents. Turns out that it wasnt him, but whatever feelings I had towards him did not change the reality of him not existing. That statement is based on whether god exists or not. If he does, he is a dick. If not then water under the bridge. OH and please tell me what the reason for my rebellion is. Tell me why I, or any other human for that reason would CHOSE to go to hell.

“I’m sure you’ve been told this before but it’s not me, or anyone else that is saying it. It is biblical”. You follow the god, you follow his teachings, you believe what he says is true, and you believe i deserve to go to hell because of them. Dont try squeaking out of that.

“Here’s a fact, there is right and wrong. You may be right on some issues and wrong on others, the same with me. When people adapt a view that everything is good and it depends on the person, well I have to disagree. As I said there are certain things that are wrong and no matter who you are you cannot change that”.

Here is a few facts. First off you did not actually address what I said at all. Second, right and wrong are simply words we attach to actions that we as a society deam to be helpful or hurtful. Your god says its right to stone a child for being disruptive. Do you? The ancient aztecs believed that ritual human sacrifice was a requirement to appease gods. Do you? Muslim society believes women are just property and are treated as such. Do you? Right and wrong is baseed on society and nothing more.

“With that said, I can see this is going no where so I’ll bow out. I’m not trying to make you mad”. Believe me Im not getting mad. Every time I back a christian into a corner to where they realize they can no longer logicaly defend their beliefs and “bow out” I feel a great sense of accomplishment, and actually enjoy having these convos. I know I will see you popping back up in these debates anyways. You cant help but try and preach the word to us lost souls.

116

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Honestly nobody should even bother debating ZEB. He uses the same book that is in question as evidence of its truth. He has absolutely no logic - this is the end result of Christianity and it is what I am trying to fight. Simply look at him and realize this is the end result of Christianity - lost in self deceit.

Some days I can laugh at them… Other days it disgusts me… Other days it saddens my heart very much to see his type of behavior. I hope those standing at an objective enough perspective are starting to see why I am the way I am… I am not trying to be condescending, honestly.[/quote]

Actually debating people like him is fun as hell. Its circular logic at its best.
Anyone: how do you know the bible is true
ZEB: Because its the word of god
Anyone: How do you know that it really is the word of god.
ZEB: Because it says so right here in the bible.

Then when you debate them logically and show them the contradictions they are making in their arguments using the words from their own book, they leave and ignore you.

117

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

Whether I have read it cover to cover is irrelevent.[/quote]

And herein lies a good portion of the problem with many atheists. I have read this response many times from those who speak out against Christianity. It only makes sense to me to fully read and understand something before it is rejected out of hand. How foolish this response would be if they were critiquing anything else, be it a workout book, a novel or any other piece of literature. But when it comes to the Bible there are such strong emotions attached to the end point that many simply turn away without looking closely at the rich history and facts that it provides. Rather hiding behind a storm of invective pros.

Question: “Have you read the book?”

Answer: “No but that’s not necessary in order to dedicate part of my life to bashing what it says.”

How very foolish, you’re smarter than that. Take some time and study the book before deciding whether God exists or not. There is no more important decision in your life treat it as such.

[/quote]

Thank you for this response. You just made my point for me. Lets use the workout book comparison sense thats the example you chose. The end result is what we are comparing here. Workout book: Read and practice this book and this will be the end result–> Body builder, t-vixen or what have you.
Bible: Read and practice this book and this will be the end result–> God gives his son up for sacrifice. You are not allowed to work on the sabath, and the punishment for doing so…death by stoning. If your child acts out…death by stoning. If you dont believe in me and worship me…tortured in hell for all eternity. I can go on and on. This type of behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse, all of which are in the bible, can not be justified by saying that some god says itÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??s OK. I DO NOT have to read the bible cover to cover to look at the end result and realize how Immoral of a book it actually is.
How very foolish of me you say. Let me clarify for you. Even if this god you believe in does exist, then he is an egotistical tyrant with a taste for blood and an absolutely ridiculous set of rules he expects us to follow, and I have no desire what so ever to worship a being such as that. If you do well thats your prerogative.[/quote]

Hold on there slow down my friend. You are the one who has just proved my point. The stoning’s that you speak of happened in the Old Testament. If you would have read on you would have realized that all of that ended when Jesus Christ entered the scene. It’s not about retribution anymore. With Christ it is about forgiveness. Just as he protected the whore from being stoned to death in the street. He said “let him without sin cast the first stone.” In that statement alone we see that Christ is aware that we are all sinners. He then said “go and sin no more.” In other words turn from your sin life toward the one who saved you, Christ.

You really need to read the book. Honestly you’re a bright guy if you read the book you may not become a Christian, but you would at least have a better understanding of how to bash Christianity.

Seriously give it a read, what can it hurt? Try beginning in Proverbs, very cool stuff.[/quote]

“The stoning’s that you speak of happened in the Old Testament”…and another falls victim to the old/new testament trap. If you want to go that route then let me quote a NEW tesament statement said by jesus. “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” Luke 16:17. He goes on to say that those who break the least of the laws will be the least allowed into heaven. On this same note, if you say that the old testament laws are invalid then that means that the 10 commandments are invalid as they are old testament documents.[/quote]

I never said that the old laws were invalid. What I said was that with Jesus Christ arrival things changed. One more thing Christ was talking to those who had not yet accepted him. In other words one must be perfect (by all laws) to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Now is that possible? No. Therefore, one must accept Christ as the savior.

It really helps if you read the entire book and not take things out of context.
[/quote]

Here is a question that I love asking christians who use that word. Context. Sense every bad thing that the bible says is apparently taken out of context could you please provide one or two good things which the bible claims which are taken out of context.

118

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
I dont hate that which I do not believe in. I dont hate god any more than I do santa.[/quote]

Really? How many times have you called Santa hateful? How many times have you attacked his being? There is a reason for your rebellion.

I’m sure you’ve been told this before but it’s not me, or anyone else that is saying it. It is biblical. If you do not accept Christ you will spend eternity in hell. And it has nothing to do with you being a worse person than me or anyone else. We are all sinners. You’ve lied and done other things that are sinful. You need forgiveness, you cannot make it to heaven on your own. That’s why Jesus Christ came, to save. So don’t take it so personally you are choosing what you want to do and there are consequences according to the Christian Bible. Simple.

Here’s a fact, there is right and wrong. You may be right on some issues and wrong on others, the same with me. When people adapt a view that everything is good and it depends on the person, well I have to disagree. As I said there are certain things that are wrong and no matter who you are you cannot change that.

With that said, I can see this is going no where so I’ll bow out. I’m not trying to make you mad. Take care and if you get the opportunity try to read the Bible from cover to cover.

All The Best To You,

Zeb
[/quote]

“Really? How many times have you called Santa hateful?” Never. I always thought he was a pretty cool guys sense I thought he was bringing me presents. Turns out that it wasnt him, but whatever feelings I had towards him did not change the reality of him not existing. That statement is based on whether god exists or not. If he does, he is a dick. If not then water under the bridge. OH and please tell me what the reason for my rebellion is. Tell me why I, or any other human for that reason would CHOSE to go to hell.

“I’m sure you’ve been told this before but it’s not me, or anyone else that is saying it. It is biblical”. You follow the god, you follow his teachings, you believe what he says is true, and you believe i deserve to go to hell because of them. Dont try squeaking out of that.

“Here’s a fact, there is right and wrong. You may be right on some issues and wrong on others, the same with me. When people adapt a view that everything is good and it depends on the person, well I have to disagree. As I said there are certain things that are wrong and no matter who you are you cannot change that”.

Here is a few facts. First off you did not actually address what I said at all. Second, right and wrong are simply words we attach to actions that we as a society deam to be helpful or hurtful. Your god says its right to stone a child for being disruptive. Do you? The ancient aztecs believed that ritual human sacrifice was a requirement to appease gods. Do you? Muslim society believes women are just property and are treated as such. Do you? Right and wrong is baseed on society and nothing more.

“With that said, I can see this is going no where so I’ll bow out. I’m not trying to make you mad”. Believe me Im not getting mad. Every time I back a christian into a corner to where they realize they can no longer logicaly defend their beliefs and “bow out” I feel a great sense of accomplishment, and actually enjoy having these convos. I know I will see you popping back up in these debates anyways. You cant help but try and preach the word to us lost souls.[/quote]

Good luck in your search for the truth. I know you are smart enough to know that you have not found it yet.

119

[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Honestly nobody should even bother debating ZEB. He uses the same book that is in question as evidence of its truth. He has absolutely no logic - this is the end result of Christianity and it is what I am trying to fight. Simply look at him and realize this is the end result of Christianity - lost in self deceit.

Some days I can laugh at them… Other days it disgusts me… Other days it saddens my heart very much to see his type of behavior. I hope those standing at an objective enough perspective are starting to see why I am the way I am… I am not trying to be condescending, honestly.[/quote]

Actually debating people like him is fun as hell. Its circular logic at its best.
Anyone: how do you know the bible is true
ZEB: Because its the word of god
Anyone: How do you know that it really is the word of god.
ZEB: Because it says so right here in the bible.

Then when you debate them logically and show them the contradictions they are making in their arguments using the words from their own book, they leave and ignore you.[/quote]

I would expect those sorts of mischaracterizations from a 19 year old kid like Deorum, as he knows no better. But quite honestly you’ve disappointed me. I’ve never had the dialouge that you describe with you or anyone else. I always tell people to do their own research. I’ve reached my determination from countless hours studying the many religions of the world. In addition, I’ve also done a careful study of Biblical archeology and have drawn conclusions from that as well. I dare say that I’ve put far more time in becoming a Christian than most atheists have in disregarding Christianity. Yes, ultimately it does come down to faith. But for you to mock that faith with mischaracterizations is inconsistent with your alleged intelligence. What you’ve done is stereotype plain and simple and it’s beneath you.

120

^^ Told ya so. Logic has no meaning to him. There is only finding new ways for him to lie to himself and somehow “prove” his right. This is righteousness - it is the ability to lie to ones self, indefinitely, insuring that you never have to face “wrong”. It is self deceit and it is the direct opponent to growth. He will quite literally never grow any more intelligent then he is at this very moment. He has limited his mental growth to the here and now. This is what I am fighting.