[quote]apbt55 wrote:
No I am saying you are no better then those you are criticizing, you rationalize as they do, but now you feel superior for no reason. You are not. [/quote]
Let go of the breaking stick this is over. Stick to topic or I am not continuing this with you. I am not participating in a shit slinging over the internet.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
No I am saying you are no better then those you are criticizing, you rationalize as they do, but now you feel superior for no reason. You are not. [/quote]
Let go of the breaking stick this is over. Stick to topic or I am not continuing this with you. I am not participating in a shit slinging over the internet.[/quote]
I think you’ve made a wise choice, fighting over the Internet over this stuff is a waste of time. Do something worthwhile, repent of your sins by accepting Jesus Christ as your savior. Do it before it’s too late, this is no joke my friend. There is a heaven and a hell and eternity is a very long time!
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
Dont forget the free will argument. You know the one where us “sinners” chose to go to hell. An all knowing, all powerful, omnipotent being who created heaven and the earth somehow forgot to put evidence of his existence.[/quote]
He gave his one and only son as EVIDENCE. If you refuse that great gift of forgiveness then you have chosen an eternity in hell.
[/quote]
What EVIDENCE would that be, keeping in mind that evidence is something we can demonstrate, and observe. The bible is no more evidence than is the Koran, I-ching, Veda or any other religious text which make claims that can not be proven[/quote]
What about the fact that of all the historic texts in the world (not just religious texts), it is THE most reliable one?
What about all the papyri fragments, early Church fathers, and over 24’000 manuscripts for the Bible?
What about the fact that there are eye witness accounts for the miracles that have been recorded, such as Christ’s resurrection?
What about all the fulfilled prophesies that have been fulfilled by Jesus concerning the Messiah, which would be a probability of 10 to the power of 17, or 1 in 100’000’000’000’000’000?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
You dont know just like a muslim doesnt know Allah is real. You believe and you believe based on very flimsy “evidence”.[/quote]
Not true my friend. My faith is based on a multitude of real evidence which gives me the faith to know that there is indeed a God. Because YOU have not seen this strong evidence does not mean that it does not exist.
If one person knows then everyone knows? Tell me how does that work? Jesus Christ walked this earth and he came NOT to unite but to divide. Have you read the Bible?
How do you know the world is not flat? Because you’ve been told? Or you’ve seen pictures which have been doctored? Okay, okay don’t fall off your chair I do not believe that the world is flat. But keep in mind most of what you KNOW you’ve either been told and retold so you think it’s true. Or, you’ve done a minor bit of study on the topic and think it’s true. In reality you really don’t know much. You take it all on faith.
Are you at all familiar with the sin sacrifice 5000 years ago? Probably not. But the short answer is a God who would do that loves us very much.
We must first accept Christ as our savior before we are saved of our sins. Have you accepted Christ as your savior? Do you know where you are going when you die? You are one heart beat away from eternity, it’s really something you should think about my friend.
[/quote]
“My faith is based on a multitude of real evidence which gives me the faith to know that there is indeed a God”. And so does every muslim, hindu, jew, catholic, christian, pegan, ext… Anyone who has ever believed in thor, ra, zues, atlas, or any of the other thousand gods which people claim to have existed. They all have the same evidence which they are completely unable to demonstrate. Do you believe that the sun is being held up by atlas…no ill bet, because you are right and they are all wrong.
“But keep in mind most of what you KNOW you’ve either been told and retold so you think it’s true”. Correct. Guess what people do when they want to know whether their beliefs are true or not…they sit back and do a little bit of critical thinking and observation. Ill bet you once believed that santa was real. So why did you stop believing that one? How many of these religions have you actually devoted time to studying so you could determine their validity…dont answer that last one. Just gives you something to think about
“But the short answer is a God who would do that loves us very much”. Wrong and quite honestly if you are someone who believes that sacrificing their child is in any way shape or form acceptable, well you are just a sick misguided person and I pity you. Also on that note, lets say that god did in fact send him to die for us…why? Why could god not simply say “I forgive your sins and I do not require a blood sacrifice”? He makes the rules doesnt he?
“We must first accept Christ as our savior before we are saved of our sins. Have you accepted Christ as your savior? Do you know where you are going when you die?” How funny it is that these religions attach all these rules in order to go to a good place. Its all the same message. Believe as we do or you are fucked. No I have not accepted him as my savior, no I dont know where i am going when I die and NEITHER DO YOU
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
Dont forget the free will argument. You know the one where us “sinners” chose to go to hell. An all knowing, all powerful, omnipotent being who created heaven and the earth somehow forgot to put evidence of his existence.[/quote]
He gave his one and only son as EVIDENCE. If you refuse that great gift of forgiveness then you have chosen an eternity in hell.
[/quote]
What EVIDENCE would that be, keeping in mind that evidence is something we can demonstrate, and observe. The bible is no more evidence than is the Koran, I-ching, Veda or any other religious text which make claims that can not be proven[/quote]
What about all the papyri fragments, early Church fathers, and over 24’000 manuscripts for the Bible?
What about the fact that there are eye witness accounts for the miracles that have been recorded, such as Christ’s resurrection?
What about all the fulfilled prophesies that have been fulfilled by Jesus concerning the Messiah, which would be a probability of 10 to the power of 17, or 1 in 100’000’000’000’000’000?[/quote]
What about the fact that of all the historic texts in the world (not just religious texts), it is THE most reliable one?
Reliable in what way?
What about all the papyri fragments, early Church fathers, and over 24’000 manuscripts for the Bible?
What about them? All you have stated so far is “there is a book and I believe it”.
What about the fact that there are eye witness accounts for the miracles that have been recorded, such as Christ’s resurrection?
Kind of funny how the standards for miracles have dropped over the years dont you think? Some stone age nomads claim someone rises from the dead and you take it as fact, yet now adays all it takes is for some kid to get lost in the woods for a few days and be found. Oh its a miracle. Or 'damnit I cant find my reading glasses…OH WAIT there they are. Thank god. Name one damned “miracle” that has occured in modern times which could only have occured through devine intervention.
“What about all the fulfilled prophesies that have been fulfilled”. Please name one and be specific. None of that ‘oh it says there will be wars and there have been wars’ stuff. Again name something that only a devine being could predict.
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
Dont forget the free will argument. You know the one where us “sinners” chose to go to hell. An all knowing, all powerful, omnipotent being who created heaven and the earth somehow forgot to put evidence of his existence.[/quote]
He gave his one and only son as EVIDENCE. If you refuse that great gift of forgiveness then you have chosen an eternity in hell.
[/quote]
What EVIDENCE would that be, keeping in mind that evidence is something we can demonstrate, and observe. The bible is no more evidence than is the Koran, I-ching, Veda or any other religious text which make claims that can not be proven[/quote]
What about all the papyri fragments, early Church fathers, and over 24’000 manuscripts for the Bible?
What about the fact that there are eye witness accounts for the miracles that have been recorded, such as Christ’s resurrection?
What about all the fulfilled prophesies that have been fulfilled by Jesus concerning the Messiah, which would be a probability of 10 to the power of 17, or 1 in 100’000’000’000’000’000?[/quote]
What about the fact that of all the historic texts in the world (not just religious texts), it is THE most reliable one?
Reliable in what way?
What about all the papyri fragments, early Church fathers, and over 24’000 manuscripts for the Bible?
What about them? All you have stated so far is “there is a book and I believe it”.
What about the fact that there are eye witness accounts for the miracles that have been recorded, such as Christ’s resurrection?
Kind of funny how the standards for miracles have dropped over the years dont you think? Some stone age nomads claim someone rises from the dead and you take it as fact, yet now adays all it takes is for some kid to get lost in the woods for a few days and be found. Oh its a miracle. Or 'damnit I cant find my reading glasses…OH WAIT there they are. Thank god. Name one damned “miracle” that has occured in modern times which could only have occured through devine intervention.
“What about all the fulfilled prophesies that have been fulfilled”. Please name one and be specific. None of that ‘oh it says there will be wars and there have been wars’ stuff. Again name something that only a devine being could predict.[/quote]
I will address your other points later because Im about to go workout, but:
Many Christians on here will disagree with me, but I believe that since the Bible was completed, the need for miracles have ceased, since miracles were first and foremost to validate the words of the prophets.
The “miracles” you are describing that many people claim are occuring today, are in fact not miracles. Miracles by nature (no pun intended) are unnatural and have NO natural explanations. God is still able to help out even today but through natural means, not miraculous.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Faith is part of life[/quote]
And what would you like to put your faith in? Human logic? Or abstract nothings and/or religious dogma? [/quote]
That is up to the individual, not up to some standard of pleasing YOU.
I don’t know what your beef is. No one is telling you what to believe in, so why are you insisting to tell us what to believe or not to believe ?
OP,
This is what I gather from the bullshit you continue to write…
You insist not to preach, and want people to form their own beliefs. OK, the people have, and since they may not agree with your own, you demonize them.
Those who do not agree with you, you INSIST on imposing your beliefs on them, in which case you are not better than that cursed church “who force fed them us when we were all younger.” Guess what, we are old enough now to either believe or not believe them. It is not up to you to “save” anyone here, from some alleged chains of deceit, that only you seem to suffer from. We are not mentally irregular, like you. I think at this point in life, many of us have either accepted, denied, or dismissed religion, and we accept each other’s opinions about that.
You are pissed off about something with the church. I don’t think this thread has much of anything to do at all with proving or not proving the Bible’s stories to be true. This is about you pissing on anyone who MIGHT think they are true. You came on here to take the joy that believing in a divine power has to offer. Some things can be attributed to a God, to luck, to coincidence, to science, or something else. We as individuals choose, and it is not your place to criticize our choices.
Now, if you want to pout because of something that happened, and you blame it on God, then at least take your position with that. I think you are about to get the discipline your parents ever gave you. We are not your teachers, you will show more courtesy than you have shown. You want to act like a child (which you are), you will be treated like one. If you want to get to the bottom of whatever crawled up your ass, then stop the pissy-fit and articulate yourself better.
Before you scream about people getting off topic, YOU are off topic. Your beef is not with why we might believe the stories of the Bible to be true. You are pissed off about something. Either get to it, or STFU, because many of us are fresh out of Oprah up in here.
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ColumboSteel wrote:
You dont know just like a muslim doesnt know Allah is real. You believe and you believe based on very flimsy “evidence”.[/quote]
Not true my friend. My faith is based on a multitude of real evidence which gives me the faith to know that there is indeed a God. Because YOU have not seen this strong evidence does not mean that it does not exist.
If one person knows then everyone knows? Tell me how does that work? Jesus Christ walked this earth and he came NOT to unite but to divide. Have you read the Bible?
How do you know the world is not flat? Because you’ve been told? Or you’ve seen pictures which have been doctored? Okay, okay don’t fall off your chair I do not believe that the world is flat. But keep in mind most of what you KNOW you’ve either been told and retold so you think it’s true. Or, you’ve done a minor bit of study on the topic and think it’s true. In reality you really don’t know much. You take it all on faith.
Are you at all familiar with the sin sacrifice 5000 years ago? Probably not. But the short answer is a God who would do that loves us very much.
We must first accept Christ as our savior before we are saved of our sins. Have you accepted Christ as your savior? Do you know where you are going when you die? You are one heart beat away from eternity, it’s really something you should think about my friend.
[/quote]
“My faith is based on a multitude of real evidence which gives me the faith to know that there is indeed a God”. And so does every muslim, hindu, jew, catholic, christian, pegan, ext… Anyone who has ever believed in thor, ra, zues, atlas, or any of the other thousand gods which people claim to have existed. They all have the same evidence which they are completely unable to demonstrate. Do you believe that the sun is being held up by atlas…no ill bet, because you are right and they are all wrong.[/quote]
Someone does have to be right and the others wrong. You draw the incorrect conclusion that because of their shear number and the fact that they’re wrong, Christianity is wrong.
That’s what I have done. I’ve studies many of the worlds great religions. I’m also a student of history. And I’ve come to the conclusion that Christianity is quite real. Someday you will know this for yourself.
Answered above.
That’s why I asked you if you were familiar with the atonement sacrifices done thousands of years ago. They are well documented in the Jewish religion and in history books as well. When there was sin there had to be atonement for that sin. Sometimes it was a goat, or a bull. But every time there was blood involved. There must be shedding of blood to atone for sin. That’s why Jesus Christ was sent to die for our sins. However, in order to benefit from this gift we must accept it first.
As I said there are many religions and they cannot all be correct. I have made my choice based on my own studies. Hopefully everyone searches for some sort of enlightenment in their lives. I cannot say for a fact where YOU are going when you die because I have no idea where your path will take you before you pass on.
But I do know where the Bible clearly states a person will go who have been introduced to Christ (as I just did with you) and then rejects him. And trust me my friend you don’t want to go there!
I will ask you again, have you ever read the Bible? What spiritual studies have you done which leads you to your current belief?
Honestly I change my mind. I insist that everything I have said has been verbose lies and slanting of logic. Ignore it all as you are inclined to do. Profess your bible’s victory and continue to rape the minds of your children with it all you want. I care not.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Honestly I change my mind. I insist that everything I have said has been verbose lies and slanting of logic. Ignore it all as you are inclined to do. Profess your bible’s victory and continue to rape the minds of your children with it all you want. I care not.[/quote]
Your bitch card has officially been pulled…
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Honestly I change my mind. I insist that everything I have said has been verbose lies and slanting of logic. Ignore it all as you are inclined to do. Profess your bible’s victory and continue to rape the minds of your children with it all you want. I care not.[/quote]
Your bitch card has officially been pulled…[/quote]
Oh great call there! Good one! Bless this forum with your logic all you want; but please B my nuts are already sore from you hanging off them and my dick can’t shoot any more semen on your face, please stop jerking me off.
Please wipe it off by the way. I know you think it makes a great facial cleansing mask but it is skeeving me out. It’s getting all hard and crusty looking.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Honestly I change my mind. I insist that everything I have said has been verbose lies and slanting of logic. Ignore it all as you are inclined to do. Profess your bible’s victory and continue to rape the minds of your children with it all you want. I care not.[/quote]
Your bitch card has officially been pulled…[/quote]
Oh great call there! Good one! Bless this forum with your logic all you want; but please B my nuts are already sore from you hanging off them and my dick can’t shoot any more semen on your face, please stop jerking me off.
Please wipe it off by the way. I know you think it makes a great facial cleansing mask but it is skeeving me out. It’s getting all hard and crusty looking.[/quote]
Fail for the way you are describing your departure.
Seems applicable to this thread
Oh no I couldn’t possibly give another cumshot? Oh god I told you guys I’m not a porn star stop jerking me off. Ohhh ohhhhhho ohhhhhh god oh god oh god!!!
splert
Damn you guys jerk a dick too well. Awwww you guys been practicing on each other for little ol’ me?? Please no more though. Go back to your debate stop stroking my ego.
Yeah haha you guys got trolled… Yea that’s what this was. Like I said ignore it then? Don’t feed the troll you guys know the rules, why is that so hard? Stop jerking me off it really hurts guys. My dick is all red and sore and I swear I still feel B down there latched on to my left nut.
ok maybe not flawless…
[quote]pat wrote:
I sense anger issues here…[/quote]
More like a lot of time sitting in front of the TV watching the History Channel and reading straw-man atheist books.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Blind faith is the driving mechanism of self-deceit - the ultimate sin in my bible.[/quote]
I think I just quoted your entire bible, too bad you stole it from someone else.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
My point is to shed light on the other side of this great struggle. Since your births, you were force fed the one side and I understand that this is a hard chain to break. I am trying my best to put the hatchet in your hands, hoping you can break your own chains. I ain’t swinging no goddamn axes for anybody.[/quote]
Must have had a bad relationship with your father.