Objectivity

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Ok, you must have a problem with the altruistic parts of the health care bill, but do you think it is ok that health care costs went up 39 percent. Do you think it OK that your ins. Company can drop you because they have spent too much money on you , Is it ok that your son that is presently on your insurance will never be able to get insurance coverage because he has a pre existing condition

[/quote]

39%…oh yes, and it’s all this Ins companies and it stems from greed I suppose. Damn 3% profits.

I agree pre-existing conditions should never DQ anyone. GOP agrees as well.

I think we should have a “Catastrophic Clause” that people should carry for little money. In the event you DO get really sick or hurt, you would pay maybe 3-5k, then benefits kick in.

I believe we all should pay out of pocket for “regular” doctor visits with HSA’s. The biggest problem in rising costs is that we Americans go to the dr for every sniffle, briuse or cough. we scare the nation about the flu. We use the Dr like a gas station or convenience store when we should NOT. Now, bring in all the lame medications doctors push for anyone who “feels” depressed then we have INs companies paying for drugs they should not, performing multitudes of unneeded expensive “tests” to cover their asses because they may be sued for untold amounts.

Leave it up to the customers. If I still have that 3k at the end of the year in my Health Savings Account, then I keep it. If I want to visit the doctor like a candy store, then I’m SOL and pay for that overuse.

Mandated coverage should only be catasrophic in nature so one does not go bankrupt, making true care affordable and my choice. If some dimwit decides not to buy catastophic care, let them be examples of what could happen.

It’s time we all change our habits on this. Health Care is NOT A RIGHT!

[/quote]

Good post rock!

V

42

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
…I would vote Republican

[/quote]You mean Retardican, don’t you?
[/quote]

I will vote republican when they quit acting like they are misssing several genes:)[/quote]

I’ll bet they can hardly wait.[/quote]

The problem with you is you play the role of a child . you say nothing constructive. Just curious what you get out of this ?[/quote]

Usually, the only thing one can say when engaged with you in a “debate” is “nothing constructive.” You’ve got to understand that you bring this on yourself. It’s simply a byproduct of me (or others) considering the source.[/quote]

I do not know what you are referring to when you say I bring it on my self, when I read your posts, I feel nothing, the majority of the time I question your intellect.

43

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Ok, you must have a problem with the altruistic parts of the health care bill, but do you think it is ok that health care costs went up 39 percent. Do you think it OK that your ins. Company can drop you because they have spent too much money on you , Is it ok that your son that is presently on your insurance will never be able to get insurance coverage because he has a pre existing condition

[/quote]

39%…oh yes, and it’s all this Ins companies and it stems from greed I suppose. Damn 3% profits.

I agree pre-existing conditions should never DQ anyone. GOP agrees as well.

I think we should have a “Catastrophic Clause” that people should carry for little money. In the event you DO get really sick or hurt, you would pay maybe 3-5k, then benefits kick in.

I believe we all should pay out of pocket for “regular” doctor visits with HSA’s. The biggest problem in rising costs is that we Americans go to the dr for every sniffle, briuse or cough. we scare the nation about the flu. We use the Dr like a gas station or convenience store when we should NOT. Now, bring in all the lame medications doctors push for anyone who “feels” depressed then we have INs companies paying for drugs they should not, performing multitudes of unneeded expensive “tests” to cover their asses because they may be sued for untold amounts.

Leave it up to the customers. If I still have that 3k at the end of the year in my Health Savings Account, then I keep it. If I want to visit the doctor like a candy store, then I’m SOL and pay for that overuse.

Mandated coverage should only be catasrophic in nature so one does not go bankrupt, making true care affordable and my choice. If some dimwit decides not to buy catastophic care, let them be examples of what could happen.

It’s time we all change our habits on this. Health Care is NOT A RIGHT!

[/quote]

You know I could work with you, I would say ok to that if we outlaw all coverage of doctorâ??s office calls. My biggest complaint was the doctors cover all their costs with Ins. And make all their profit, on their cash customers.

In RE: to your three percent profit, you are not counting the EXTREME salaries and bonuses. It is the same with banks, (THE BEST WAY TO ROB A BANK IS TO OWN AND OPERATE IT)

I do not think you could get Congress to agree to catastrophic coverage though, it is too pro people.

45

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
My biggest complaint was the doctors cover all their costs with Ins. And make all their profit, on their cash customers.

[/quote]

Really?

That is very interesting.

You should expound on this a bit more.

Explain to me how I pay cash and get 2 wisdom teeth pulled for $225.00, or a sinus infection treated for $10.00, no insurance, just a cash transaction of money due for services rendered.

46

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1217

47

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
My biggest complaint was the doctors cover all their costs with Ins. And make all their profit, on their cash customers.

[/quote]

Really?

That is very interesting.

You should expound on this a bit more.

Explain to me how I pay cash and get 2 wisdom teeth pulled for $225.00, or a sinus infection treated for $10.00, no insurance, just a cash transaction of money due for services rendered.
[/quote]

Well I do not any one else that gets an office call for ten bucks, maybe you should expound on it :slight_smile: I beat your tooth extraction 1 tooth $75, Dental is not like the rest of Medical Ins. Most people are cash paying . I must say you must treat that Doc real nice:) $10 office call :slight_smile:

48

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
My biggest complaint was the doctors cover all their costs with Ins. And make all their profit, on their cash customers.

[/quote]

Really?

That is very interesting.

You should expound on this a bit more.

Explain to me how I pay cash and get 2 wisdom teeth pulled for $225.00, or a sinus infection treated for $10.00, no insurance, just a cash transaction of money due for services rendered.
[/quote]

Well I do not any one else that gets an office call for ten bucks, maybe you should expound on it :slight_smile: I beat your tooth extraction 1 tooth $75, Dental is not like the rest of Medical Ins. Most people are cash paying . I must say you must treat that Doc real nice:) $10 office call :)[/quote]

Well, in the case of the office visit, the doc looks up my nose with the rhino thingy, says “Yeah, thats pretty inflamed. These should take care of it. Take Ibuprofen for the pain” and wrote a script for amoxicillin. He brushed off the billing, saying that it was only five minutes and he didn’t even know what to charge. The receptionist recommended 10 bucks. He agreed, and wished me the best.

I think that a lot of cost gets added when you have to have 3 full time employees to collect from an insurance company that delegates what something should cost, and denies coverage or payment for treatment based on actuary tables and their bottom line. It creates a tug of war between the doc, who earned the money, and the insurer- who wants to keep the money.

Simplify the whole process by eliminating the middle for anything less than a major medical intervention. Pay cash.

49

The fact that all the repubs are echoing the “shoving healthcare down your throat” quote (every fox news correspondent has said it repeatedly) just further proves my point in the Official Fox News thread & proves the point of this thread that you only watch fox news and listen to repub radio…Not objective and dont gather all facts and make your own judgements.

50

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
My biggest complaint was the doctors cover all their costs with Ins. And make all their profit, on their cash customers.

[/quote]

Really?

That is very interesting.

You should expound on this a bit more.

Explain to me how I pay cash and get 2 wisdom teeth pulled for $225.00, or a sinus infection treated for $10.00, no insurance, just a cash transaction of money due for services rendered.
[/quote]

Well I do not any one else that gets an office call for ten bucks, maybe you should expound on it :slight_smile: I beat your tooth extraction 1 tooth $75, Dental is not like the rest of Medical Ins. Most people are cash paying . I must say you must treat that Doc real nice:) $10 office call :)[/quote]

Well, in the case of the office visit, the doc looks up my nose with the rhino thingy, says “Yeah, thats pretty inflamed. These should take care of it. Take Ibuprofen for the pain” and wrote a script for amoxicillin. He brushed off the billing, saying that it was only five minutes and he didn’t even know what to charge. The receptionist recommended 10 bucks. He agreed, and wished me the best.

I think that a lot of cost gets added when you have to have 3 full time employees to collect from an insurance company that delegates what something should cost, and denies coverage or payment for treatment based on actuary tables and their bottom line. It creates a tug of war between the doc, who earned the money, and the insurer- who wants to keep the money.

Simplify the whole process by eliminating the middle for anything less than a major medical intervention. Pay cash.
[/quote]

My point was that Ins. Companies demand cash customers pay more than they do and with the amount Ins. Co. pay it is probably necessary. And that includes the extra billing costs. The way things are structured now very few doctors could live with out Ins. companies

51

[quote]SickAbs wrote:
The fact that all the repubs are echoing the “shoving healthcare down your throat” quote (every fox news correspondent has said it repeatedly) just further proves my point in the Official Fox News thread & proves the point of this thread that you only watch fox news and listen to repub radio…Not objective and dont gather all facts and make your own judgements.[/quote]

Holy shit another rational person:)

52

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SickAbs wrote:
The fact that all the repubs are echoing the “shoving healthcare down your throat” quote (every fox news correspondent has said it repeatedly) just further proves my point in the Official Fox News thread & proves the point of this thread that you only watch fox news and listen to repub radio…Not objective and dont gather all facts and make your own judgements.[/quote]

Holy shit another rational person:)[/quote]

Only rational when it fits your needs I guess. Should we compare the other liberal networks that so “objectively” covered senator Bunning blocking unemployment funding until it was paid for(you know as is now mandated by pay go) as opposed to ethics violations by rep Rangel.

53

[quote]snipeout wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SickAbs wrote:
The fact that all the repubs are echoing the “shoving healthcare down your throat” quote (every fox news correspondent has said it repeatedly) just further proves my point in the Official Fox News thread & proves the point of this thread that you only watch fox news and listen to repub radio…Not objective and dont gather all facts and make your own judgements.[/quote]

Holy shit another rational person:)[/quote]

Only rational when it fits your needs I guess. Should we compare the other liberal networks that so “objectively” covered senator Bunning blocking unemployment funding until it was paid for(you know as is now mandated by pay go) as opposed to ethics violations by rep Rangel.
[/quote]

I am trying to have an objective conversation with anybody, all I get is lifty , drinking on Sunday( I hope he gets help with that ) Push Harder acting like he is 10 and like he really matters or like I really care. People making statements that info I supplied was incorrect and when I ask for proof I am struck with silence. There is no rational conversation on this board from the SO CALLED CONSEVATIVES. I give Rock Scar credit I did not think him capable of rational thought .By rational I mean to disagree with me and make sense, not quote Rush Limp Dick or some fairytale from a Russian born Author. Rational thought comes from having a grasp on the subject matter so you can hit it from any side

Fuck Rangle I hope they hang the crooked SOB

54

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]snipeout wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SickAbs wrote:
The fact that all the repubs are echoing the “shoving healthcare down your throat” quote (every fox news correspondent has said it repeatedly) just further proves my point in the Official Fox News thread & proves the point of this thread that you only watch fox news and listen to repub radio…Not objective and dont gather all facts and make your own judgements.[/quote]

Holy shit another rational person:)[/quote]

Only rational when it fits your needs I guess. Should we compare the other liberal networks that so “objectively” covered senator Bunning blocking unemployment funding until it was paid for(you know as is now mandated by pay go) as opposed to ethics violations by rep Rangel.
[/quote]

I am trying to have an objective conversation with anybody, all I get is lifty , drinking on Sunday( I hope he gets help with that ) Push Harder acting like he is 10 and like he really matters or like I really care. People making statements that info I supplied was incorrect and when I ask for proof I am struck with silence. There is no rational conversation on this board from the SO CALLED CONSEVATIVES. I give Rock Scar credit I did not think him capable of rational thought .By rational I mean to disagree with me and make sense, not quote Rush Limp Dick or some fairytale from a Russian born Author. Rational thought comes from having a grasp on the subject matter so you can hit it from any side

Fuck Rangle I hope they hang the crooked SOB[/quote]

Pitt, if you have the time, checkout the back&forth I’m having with everyone in the Official Fox News thread. It’s about 3 pages long now, but I think you’ll enjoy it (especially push having to resort to personal attacks and diverting subject matter to petty ramblings).

55

[quote]SickAbs wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]snipeout wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SickAbs wrote:
The fact that all the repubs are echoing the “shoving healthcare down your throat” quote (every fox news correspondent has said it repeatedly) just further proves my point in the Official Fox News thread & proves the point of this thread that you only watch fox news and listen to repub radio…Not objective and dont gather all facts and make your own judgements.[/quote]

I actually went there, and I see you also calling people names. Let’s be fair and objective before you act like you are so pure.

Holy shit another rational person:)[/quote]

Only rational when it fits your needs I guess. Should we compare the other liberal networks that so “objectively” covered senator Bunning blocking unemployment funding until it was paid for(you know as is now mandated by pay go) as opposed to ethics violations by rep Rangel.
[/quote]

I am trying to have an objective conversation with anybody, all I get is lifty , drinking on Sunday( I hope he gets help with that ) Push Harder acting like he is 10 and like he really matters or like I really care. People making statements that info I supplied was incorrect and when I ask for proof I am struck with silence. There is no rational conversation on this board from the SO CALLED CONSEVATIVES. I give Rock Scar credit I did not think him capable of rational thought .By rational I mean to disagree with me and make sense, not quote Rush Limp Dick or some fairytale from a Russian born Author. Rational thought comes from having a grasp on the subject matter so you can hit it from any side

Fuck Rangle I hope they hang the crooked SOB[/quote]

Pitt, if you have the time, checkout the back&forth I’m having with everyone in the Official Fox News thread. It’s about 3 pages long now, but I think you’ll enjoy it (especially push having to resort to personal attacks and diverting subject matter to petty ramblings).[/quote]

57

[quote]SickAbs wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]snipeout wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SickAbs wrote:
The fact that all the repubs are echoing the “shoving healthcare down your throat” quote (every fox news correspondent has said it repeatedly) just further proves my point in the Official Fox News thread & proves the point of this thread that you only watch fox news and listen to repub radio…Not objective and dont gather all facts and make your own judgements.[/quote]

Holy shit another rational person:)[/quote]

Only rational when it fits your needs I guess. Should we compare the other liberal networks that so “objectively” covered senator Bunning blocking unemployment funding until it was paid for(you know as is now mandated by pay go) as opposed to ethics violations by rep Rangel.
[/quote]

I am trying to have an objective conversation with anybody, all I get is lifty , drinking on Sunday( I hope he gets help with that ) Push Harder acting like he is 10 and like he really matters or like I really care. People making statements that info I supplied was incorrect and when I ask for proof I am struck with silence. There is no rational conversation on this board from the SO CALLED CONSEVATIVES. I give Rock Scar credit I did not think him capable of rational thought .By rational I mean to disagree with me and make sense, not quote Rush Limp Dick or some fairytale from a Russian born Author. Rational thought comes from having a grasp on the subject matter so you can hit it from any side

Fuck Rangle I hope they hang the crooked SOB[/quote]

Pitt, if you have the time, checkout the back&forth I’m having with everyone in the Official Fox News thread. It’s about 3 pages long now, but I think you’ll enjoy it (especially push having to resort to personal attacks and diverting subject matter to petty ramblings).[/quote]
I actually went there, and I see you also calling people names. Let’s be fair and objective before you act like you are so pure.

58

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
My biggest complaint was the doctors cover all their costs with Ins. And make all their profit, on their cash customers.

[/quote]

Really?

That is very interesting.

You should expound on this a bit more.

Explain to me how I pay cash and get 2 wisdom teeth pulled for $225.00, or a sinus infection treated for $10.00, no insurance, just a cash transaction of money due for services rendered.
[/quote]

Well I do not any one else that gets an office call for ten bucks, maybe you should expound on it :slight_smile: I beat your tooth extraction 1 tooth $75, Dental is not like the rest of Medical Ins. Most people are cash paying . I must say you must treat that Doc real nice:) $10 office call :)[/quote]

Well, in the case of the office visit, the doc looks up my nose with the rhino thingy, says “Yeah, thats pretty inflamed. These should take care of it. Take Ibuprofen for the pain” and wrote a script for amoxicillin. He brushed off the billing, saying that it was only five minutes and he didn’t even know what to charge. The receptionist recommended 10 bucks. He agreed, and wished me the best.

I think that a lot of cost gets added when you have to have 3 full time employees to collect from an insurance company that delegates what something should cost, and denies coverage or payment for treatment based on actuary tables and their bottom line. It creates a tug of war between the doc, who earned the money, and the insurer- who wants to keep the money.

Simplify the whole process by eliminating the middle for anything less than a major medical intervention. Pay cash.
[/quote]

My point was that Ins. Companies demand cash customers pay more than they do and with the amount Ins. Co. pay it is probably necessary. And that includes the extra billing costs. The way things are structured now very few doctors could live with out Ins. companies[/quote]

That makes no sense at all. A cash customer has absolutely nothing to do with insurance.

As for cost, how do you run a bureaucracy like an insurance co. without adding to cost? Everybody who works there gets paid. That money comes from the insured person. That is cost that the insured person is paying which is not in any way related to medical treatment.

How could an M.D. not survive. The insurance I have now, group coverage deducted from my pay and supplemented by my employer is several hundred dollars per month. There hasn’t been any need for a procedure or treatment that has cost more than I have paid.

If everybody gave the money that they pay for insurance to the doctors that earn it instead of to insurance companies, it would be professional medical groups and private practitioners who had net worth and holdings in the billions, not insurance companies. If you were more astute, you would know that this is a business model that has emerged in the past few years to provide better coverage to the insured, remove third party administrative expenses, streamline treatment, and ensure that doctors and medical groups are getting paid what they earn instead of what an accounting department, legal department, and a claims department think they should make.

You seem to have a hard time with basic math and circulation of money. You should stay away from topics that involve those concepts.

59

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Scuba19 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
…or you can deny that America is 37th in the category of health care…[/quote]

I really wish people would stop throwing out that completely inaccurate statistic. That ranking was done by the World Health Organization, which by the way is part of the UN. More importantly, they stopped doing those rankings in 2000 because they were very inaccurate due to there being just too many variables to take into account.
[/quote]

The report was dated 2000, but I could find nothing to dis credit the report, I would be interested in seeing some valid proof to your assertion[/quote]

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9236

Seriously, last summer there were a lot more sources stating that the WHO rankings were inaccurate. Wikipedia (yes, I know) even stated that the rankings were stopped because they were inaccurate and there were just too many variable to take into account.

Even if you don’t believe me, you can’t deny that the lifestyles that Americans live compared to other countries don’t come into account. Not to mention that our record keeping practices are vastly different from other nations (infant deaths, etc.).

60

[quote]Scuba19 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Scuba19 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
…or you can deny that America is 37th in the category of health care…[/quote]

I really wish people would stop throwing out that completely inaccurate statistic. That ranking was done by the World Health Organization, which by the way is part of the UN. More importantly, they stopped doing those rankings in 2000 because they were very inaccurate due to there being just too many variables to take into account.
[/quote]

The report was dated 2000, but I could find nothing to dis credit the report, I would be interested in seeing some valid proof to your assertion[/quote]

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9236

Seriously, last summer there were a lot more sources stating that the WHO rankings were inaccurate. Wikipedia (yes, I know) even stated that the rankings were stopped because they were inaccurate and there were just too many variable to take into account.

Even if you don’t believe me, you can’t deny that the lifestyles that Americans live compared to other countries don’t come into account. Not to mention that our record keeping practices are vastly different from other nations (infant deaths, etc.).

[/quote]

While I do have some Libertarian views and think some things especially when it comes to personal freedom would be best if left as Libertarian as possible , You can not (IN MY VEIW) have a Country that is so complicated (NOT) be over sighted by some one looking out for the little guy. I agree our GOV. has way too many problems. But the Free market would rape us all. (IN MY OPINION)

The Cato Institute is A (LIBERTAIRIAN ORGANIZATION) and there for not objective, it would be like going to the GOP or the DMC. for objective info.

Your other link what specifically did you want me to look at, at first glace it appears to bolster my case?

Thanks :slight_smile: