Obama's Racialism

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This whole thing frustrates the shit out of me.

I’ve gotten text messages from people with pictures of Obama holding a sign saying, “I sure loves campaignin’” while “moving on up” plays in the background.

I’ve heard people say, “I won’t vote for a nigger” or “Blacks shouldn’t be president,” and then it normally goes into some viciously racist diatribe.

Many times, it’s said by people who listen to rap and emulate blacks in their style.

I’ve heard, “Oh you can’t trust a guy with the name Barack Obama”, or “I can’t vote for him because he’s muslim.”

And it’s too many of them to just hope that they fall in wells or have heart attacks on the way to the voting booth.

As much shit as I give people here, I respect them because most people hate his proposed economic policies or his stances on issues. That’s fine. But the fact that so many people are not going to vote for him because of the way his name sounds or because he’s black infuriates the shit out of me.

[/quote]

Agree.

Mufasa

McCain is beginning to see some things he doesn’t like either.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
“…I have a hard time believing the number of votes Obama GETS BECAUSE he’s black will be insignificant compared to the number he LOSES because he’s black…”

SM:

We would probably agree that this one is hard to prove…but I believe just the opposite. In other words, there is a much greater number who will vote against him because he is black.

There is a difference.

Mufasa[/quote]

I think my wording made it tough to understand my point – I agree with you 100%

For the sake of being reasonable, I was attempting to be a bit more generous than you by trying to simply state this: The votes he’ll gain by being black will at least negate the ones he’ll lose. He’s actually stated as much – that it evens out. My belief is that his race is HELPING him in no small way.

I don’t know…

This last week was a real eye-opener for me.

The “anti-Obama” vote is strong; vocal; pissed-off; in some cases, “afraid” of an Obama presidency; and for many, there is a very strong feeling that they have “God on their side”.

Rest assured that his isn’t a crowd that’s going to sit at home and watch “Oprah” and “Real Time with Bill Maher” on election day.

Mufasa

[i]President Hugo Chavez, Vice-President Vicente Rangel, Ministers Moncada and Isturiz, invited guests,comrades. I’m honored and humbled to be here with you this morning. I bring greetings and support from your brothers and sisters throughout Northamerica. Welcome to the World Education Forum! Amamos la revolucion Bolivariana!

This is my fourth visit to Venezuela, each time at the invitation of my comrade and friend Luis Bonilla, a brilliant educator and inspiring fighter for justice. Luis has taught me a great deal about the Bolivarian Revolution and about the profound educational reforms underway here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I’ve come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle–I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane. Thank you, Luis, for everything you’ve done.

I also thank my youngest son, Chesa Boudin, who is interpreting my talk this morning and whose book on the Bolivarian revolution has played an important part in countering the barrage of lies spread by the U.S. State Department and the corrupted Northamerican media.

On my last trip to Caracas I spoke of traveling to a literacy class–Mission Robinson–in the hills above the city along a long and winding road. As we made our way higher and higher, the talk turned to politics as it inevitably does here, and someone noted that the wealthy–here and everywhere, here and in the US surely–have certain received opinions, a kind of absolute judgment about poor and working people, and yet they have never traveled this road, nor any road like it. They have never boarded this bus up into these hills, and not just the oligarchy or the wealthy–this lack of first-hand knowledge, of open investigation, of generous regard is also a condition of the everyday liberals, and even many of the radicals and armchair intellectuals whose formulations sit lifeless and stifling in a crypt of mythology about poor people. Everyone should come and travel these roads into the hills, we agreed then–and not just once, but again and again and again–if they will ever learn anything of the real conditions of life here, surely, but more important than that, if they will ever encounter the wisdom and experience and insight that lives here as well.

We arrived at eight o,clock to a literacy circle already underway being conducted in a small, poorly-lit classroom. And here in an odd and dark space, a sun was shining: ten people had pulled their chairs close together–a young woman maybe 19, a grandmother maybe 65, two men in their 40s–each struggling to read. And I thought of a poem called A Poor Woman Learns to Write by Margaret Atwood about a woman working laboriously to print her name in the dirt. She never thought she could do it, the poet notes, not her–this writing business was for others. But she does it, prints her name, her first word so far, and she looks up and smiles–for she did it right.

The woman in the poem–just like the students in Mission Robinson–is living out a universal dialectic that embodies education at its very best: she wrote her name, she changed herself, and she altered the conditions of her life. As she wrote the word, she changed the world, and another world became–suddenly and surprisingly–possible.

I began teaching when I was 20 years old in a small freedom school affiliated with the Civil Rights Movement in the United States. The year was 1965, and I’d been arrested in a demonstration. Jailed for ten days, I met several activists who were finding ways to link teaching and education with deep and fundamental social change. They were following Dewey and DuBois, King and Helen Keller who wrote: “We can’t have education without revolution. We have tried peace education for 1,900 years and it has failed. Let us try revolution and see what it will do now.”

I walked out of jail and into my first teaching position�??and from that day until this I’ve thought of myself as a teacher, but I’ve also understood teaching as a project intimately connected with social justice. After all, the fundamental message of the teacher is this: you can change your life�??whoever you are, wherever you’ve been, whatever you�??ve done, another world is possible. As students and teachers begin to see themselves as linked to one another, as tied to history and capable of collective action, the fundamental message of teaching shifts slightly, and becomes broader, more generous: we must change ourselves as we come together to change the world. Teaching invites transformations, it urges revolutions small and large. La educacion es revolucion!

I taught at first in something like a Simoncito�??called Head Start�??and eventually taught at every level in barrios and prisons and insurgent projects across the United States. I learned then that education is never neutral. It always has a value, a position, a politics. Education either reinforces or challenges the existing social order, and school is always a contested space �?? what should be taught? In what way? Toward what end? By and for whom? At bottom, it involves a struggle over the essential questions: what does it mean to be a human being living in a human society?

Totalitarianism demands obedience and conformity, hierarchy, command and control. Royalty requires allegiance. Capitalism promotes racism and militarism �?? turning people into consumers, not citizens. Participatory democracy, by contrast, requires free people coming together voluntarily as equals who are capable of both self-realization and, at the same time, full participation in a shared political and economic life.

Education contributes to human liberation to the extent that people reflect on their lives, and, becoming more conscious, insert themselves as subjects in history. To be a good teacher means above all to have faith in the people, to believe in the possibility that people can create and change things. Education is not preparation for life, but rather education is life itself ,an active process in which everyone�?? students and teachers�?? participates as co-learners.

Despite being under constant attack from within and from abroad, the Bolivarian revolution has made astonishing strides in a brief period: from the Mission Simoncito to the Mission Robinson to the Mission Ribas to the Mission Sucre, to the Bolivarian schools and the UBV, Venezuelans have shown the world that with full participation, full inclusion, and popular empowerment, the failings of capitalist schooling can be resisted and overcome. Venezuela is a beacon to the world in its accomplishment of eliminating illiteracy in record time, and engaging virtually the entire population in the ongoing project of education.

The great Chilean poet Pablo Neruda wrote a poem to his fellow writers called �??The Poet�??s Obligation�?? in which he instructed them in their core responsibility: you must, he said, become aware of your sisters and brothers who are trapped in subjugation and meaninglessness, imprisoned in ignorance and despair. You must move in and out of windows carrying a vision of the vast oceans just beyond the bars of the prison�?? a message of hope and possibility. Neruda ends with this: it is through me that freedom and the sea will call in answer to the shrouded heart.

Let those of us who are gathered here today read this poem as �??The Teacher�??s Obligation.�?? We, too, must move in and out of windows, we, too, must build a project of radical imagination and fundamental change. Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education�?? a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation. This World Education Forum provides us a unique opportunity to develop and share the lessons and challenges of this profound educational project that is the Bolivarian Revolution.

Viva Mission Sucre!
Viva Presidente Chavez!
Viva La Revolucion Bolivariana!
Hasta La Victoria Siempre![/i]

Nov. 2006
Bill Ayers

And we’re suppossed to believe that Obama just keeps, “oops,” falling in with marxist/socialist kooks?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This whole thing frustrates the shit out of me.

I’ve gotten text messages from people with pictures of Obama holding a sign saying, “I sure loves campaignin’” while “moving on up” plays in the background.

I’ve heard people say, “I won’t vote for a nigger” or “Blacks shouldn’t be president,” and then it normally goes into some viciously racist diatribe.

Many times, it’s said by people who listen to rap and emulate blacks in their style.

I’ve heard, “Oh you can’t trust a guy with the name Barack Obama”, or “I can’t vote for him because he’s muslim.”

And it’s too many of them to just hope that they fall in wells or have heart attacks on the way to the voting booth.

As much shit as I give people here, I respect them because most people hate his proposed economic policies or his stances on issues. That’s fine. But the fact that so many people are not going to vote for him because of the way his name sounds or because he’s black infuriates the shit out of me.

[/quote]

That door swings both ways. However, it’s not socially unacceptable when the shoe is on the other foot (copy+pasted from the ‘rape’ thread as quoted in Newsweek):

"There’s not a lot of anger yet but you can start to sense the potential for it. “I’m going to be mad, real mad, if he doesn’t win,” says Daetwon Fisher, 21, a construction worker from Long Beach, Calif.

Because for him to come this far and lose will be just shady and a slap in black people’s faces. I know there is already talk about protests and stuff if he loses, and I’m down for that."

Do you think Daekwon will be voting for Obama because of, say, the bullet points of his ‘clean energy’ plan? The logistics of Universal Healthcare? Doesn’t sound like it. Sounds more like ‘it’s about time we had a black President’ – meaning he’s voting for Obama based on his race. If so, is Daekwon being racist? Because it sure would be for me to vote for McCain because he’s white…

Just as Obama shouldn’t lose the election due to his race, he damn sure isn’t entitled to win it on behalf of a disgruntled population who feel ‘it’s about time’.

He won’t.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
He won’t.

Mufasa[/quote]

I can take your comment two ways – both of which I agree with:

  1. He (Daekwon) won’t (vote).

  2. He won’t (win or lose based on his race)

As for 2) I agree with you, but apparently it could be cause for protest if he doesn’t win. Which is a ridiculous thought, yet not a far-fetched scenario. I live in SF – I’ve seen large-scale protests for much, much less.

Geeze, SM!

I guess we better write a little clearer for each other!

I’m on record as saying that I do not think Obama will win this election, (for a number of reasons that I want to discuss on this Forum AFTER the election. Hopefully we’ll have some very informative, and probably heated, discussions).

“Riots” in the U.S. have often been no more than an excuse to destroy and loot. They have VERY little to do with the “reason” given.

They also tend to hurt the individuals who can afford the aftermath the least. So anyone who is saying that they will “riot” of Obama loses is just looking for a piss-poor reason to destroy and loot, often in their own neighborhood.

Mufasa

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This whole thing frustrates the shit out of me.

I’ve gotten text messages from people with pictures of Obama holding a sign saying, “I sure loves campaignin’” while “moving on up” plays in the background.

I’ve heard people say, “I won’t vote for a nigger” or “Blacks shouldn’t be president,” and then it normally goes into some viciously racist diatribe.

Many times, it’s said by people who listen to rap and emulate blacks in their style.

I’ve heard, “Oh you can’t trust a guy with the name Barack Obama”, or “I can’t vote for him because he’s muslim.”

And it’s too many of them to just hope that they fall in wells or have heart attacks on the way to the voting booth.

As much shit as I give people here, I respect them because most people hate his proposed economic policies or his stances on issues. That’s fine. But the fact that so many people are not going to vote for him because of the way his name sounds or because he’s black infuriates the shit out of me.

[/quote]

Is the same lying sack of shit who said this about Palin:

…I’m disgusted about that fucking cunt pig who’s doing the attacking. This bitch is the worst thing for America that I’ve ever seen, and the fact that shit like screaming these threats and slurs at presidential rallies speaks volumes about her character and the character of the piece of shit scum who support her.

So which is better being a racist? Or being a fucking sexist?

The worst is being a motherfucking liar, but you already wear those shoes like a fucking champ.

[quote]This whole thing frustrates the shit out of me.
[/quote]

What doesn’t?

[quote]Nov. 2006
Bill Ayers
http://billayers.wordpress.com

And we’re suppossed to believe that Obama just keeps, “oops,” falling in with marxist/socialist kooks? [/quote]

Nothing to see there…That speech could have been written by Obama’s mother.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Obama does not hate whites, nor does he support racism.

Mufasa[/quote]

It amazes me that this forum is so extreme that this needs to be said.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Obama does not hate whites, nor does he support racism.

Mufasa

It amazes me that this forum is so extreme that this needs to be said. [/quote]

LOL@ the bitter faux-conservatives pissing their pants over the widespread lynchings of whites that will undoubtedly start the day Obama gets in the White House.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
This whole thing frustrates the shit out of me.

I’ve gotten text messages from people with pictures of Obama holding a sign saying, “I sure loves campaignin’” while “moving on up” plays in the background.

I’ve heard people say, “I won’t vote for a nigger” or “Blacks shouldn’t be president,” and then it normally goes into some viciously racist diatribe.

Many times, it’s said by people who listen to rap and emulate blacks in their style.

I’ve heard, “Oh you can’t trust a guy with the name Barack Obama”, or “I can’t vote for him because he’s muslim.”

And it’s too many of them to just hope that they fall in wells or have heart attacks on the way to the voting booth.

As much shit as I give people here, I respect them because most people hate his proposed economic policies or his stances on issues. That’s fine. But the fact that so many people are not going to vote for him because of the way his name sounds or because he’s black infuriates the shit out of me.

Is the same lying sack of shit who said this about Palin:

…I’m disgusted about that fucking cunt pig who’s doing the attacking. This bitch is the worst thing for America that I’ve ever seen, and the fact that shit like screaming these threats and slurs at presidential rallies speaks volumes about her character and the character of the piece of shit scum who support her.

So which is better being a racist? Or being a fucking sexist?

The worst is being a motherfucking liar, but you already wear those shoes like a fucking champ.

[/quote]

That’s not being sexist at all. I’m sure I’ve called George W. a fucking cunt, and a bitch.

Is it demeaning? Absolutely. But I don’t like her because she’s a moron, not because she’s a woman.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Obama does not hate whites, nor does he support racism.

Mufasa

It amazes me that this forum is so extreme that this needs to be said. [/quote]

It’s filled with fucking retards. What do you expect?

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:

That door swings both ways. However, it’s not socially unacceptable when the shoe is on the other foot (copy+pasted from the ‘rape’ thread as quoted in Newsweek):

"There’s not a lot of anger yet but you can start to sense the potential for it. “I’m going to be mad, real mad, if he doesn’t win,” says Daetwon Fisher, 21, a construction worker from Long Beach, Calif.

Because for him to come this far and lose will be just shady and a slap in black people’s faces. I know there is already talk about protests and stuff if he loses, and I’m down for that."

Do you think Daekwon will be voting for Obama because of, say, the bullet points of his ‘clean energy’ plan? The logistics of Universal Healthcare? Doesn’t sound like it. Sounds more like ‘it’s about time we had a black President’ – meaning he’s voting for Obama based on his race. If so, is Daekwon being racist? Because it sure would be for me to vote for McCain because he’s white…

Just as Obama shouldn’t lose the election due to his race, he damn sure isn’t entitled to win it on behalf of a disgruntled population who feel ‘it’s about time’. [/quote]

That’s one guy.

I think there’s a lot of blacks that would be upset if he loses. But you’re really going to take the word of one construction worker from Long Beach and use him as an example to all of the blacks who are out there? I know what you mean, I’m just pointing that out.

Either way, I think that there are many people that will not vote for him for the sole reason that he is black, and that is a crime.

To vote for someone because he is like you is to be expected- to vote against them because they’re not is a crime.

The fact that many blacks are going to vote for Obama (and honestly- you don’t know the reasons why) doesn’t justify, in any way, the blatant racism circulating.

And this is racism that’s happening in New Jersey, the supposed liberal bastion. I wonder what it’s like down South.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
“…I have a hard time believing the number of votes Obama GETS BECAUSE he’s black will be insignificant compared to the number he LOSES because he’s black…”

SM:

We would probably agree that this one is hard to prove…but I believe just the opposite. In other words, there is a much greater number who will vote against him because he is black.

Something else to consider for those whom feel that there is a “Tit-for-Tat” in all this. I don’t think that there is NEARLY as significant an “anti-McCain” vote as there is an “anti-Obama” vote.

A lot of the “Kool-Aide” drinking that a lot of people bring up when discussing the Pro-Obama voters is actually FOR Obama…not AGAINST McCain…

There is a difference.

Mufasa[/quote]

agreed.

I think theres a lot of old white people here who think that they know exactly how black America thinks, not even realizing that black America, like white America, is filled with millions of different minds and beliefs. It is ignorance at it’s finest on this board.

Here is a great article by Ta-Nehisi Coates entitled “What if He Loses?”

It appeared in TIME this week, addressing this specific issue.

What if He Loses?

The first time I saw the Obama gear, I knew it had begun. I do not mean the official campaign paraphernalia. I’m talking about the wares hawked here in Harlem, the black tees sold in sizes up to 5XL, with Barack Obama’s head slightly out of proportion. I bought mine on Lenox and 125th–a mustard number with Martin Luther King Jr. and Obama juxtaposed underneath the words ALPHA and OMEGA. That’s when I smelled the air and understood that Obama was running not simply to be President but also to be the next head chiseled on the face of the imaginary black Mount Rushmore. That’s when I knew, for the first time in my life, that it would be a good year to be black.

Consider this fact: the most famous black man in America isn’t dribbling a ball or clutching a microphone. He has no prison record. He has not built a career on four-letter words. So much of our blues boils down to CNN: you go home, you cut on the TV, and always you’re reduced to skyrocketing murder rates, singers on trial for defiling children and overvalued athletes making it rain. All black news is bad news, and lately we’ve just been very tired.

But for more than a year now, we have been treated to a p.r. campaign for our side of the tracks. There is what the world sees in Obama, and then there is what we see. Words like hope, change and progress might seem like naive campaign sloganeering in a dark age. But think of the way those words ring for a people whose forebears marched into billy clubs and dogs, whose ancestors fled north by starlight, feeling the moss on the backs of trees. The sight of the Obama family onstage that first night in Denver was similarly mind-blowing, an image of black families that television so rarely provides. With its quiet class and agility–the beaming beautiful wife, the waving kids–this campaign has confirmed us, assured us that we are more than just a problem.

Compared with all that, an Obama win would be just a start. Surely the next day we would wake up with the scoreboard still the same. Our life spans would still be shorter, our prison rolls longer and our net worths lower than the average American’s. But the psychic impact could be enormous. Young blacks, like me, in particular lived with the burden of having dropped the ball that the civil rights generation advanced. Obama is our particular vindication, in that he can’t win without the votes of young blacks and in his specific mannerisms. He is the start of our contribution to the fight.

But what if Obama, our vessel of what is best in us, comes up short? What if Obama loses? What will it mean for us all?

African Americans have had to cope with disappointment since the days of slavery. With that come certain defense mechanisms, ways of guarding ourselves against disappointment. Frankly, I was perfectly fine with the idea of never seeing a black President in my lifetime. When Obama entered the race, any expectations we had were negative. We started to see the light in Iowa, but even as his support became a popular movement, there was always a kind of disbelief in the idea that America would really vote for a black man. We’d like to be wrong, but we think we’re right. There is no sense in the black community of the kind of entitlement to the presidency felt by some Hillary Clinton supporters. Many of them expressed shock at the sort of sexism that greeted her. But very few black people were shocked that Michelle Obama was called a “baby mama” or that GOP Congressmen seem to have a penchant for referring to Obama as “boy” and “uppity.”

That’s why an Obama defeat would be met with resignation more than rage. No one is more tired of talking about racism than black people. The disenchantment with protest politics, the fatigue from refighting old battles over school integration and affirmative action, even the rise of politicians like Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick point to a shift in the disposition of black America. The big issues of the day aren’t so much racial profiling and police brutality as the achievement gap, the incarceration rate and unemployment. The great race conversation has not only decreased in volume; for black people, it’s also become much more introverted. At this moment, black America is in the grips of a kind of barbershop conservatism that is more concerned with its own progress than with the attitudes of whites.

So, yes, an Obama defeat would be greeted with a loud sucking of the teeth and a deepening of self-doubt. A loss would be hugely disappointing, and to put it crudely, it would also be more of the same. But it is also true that the biggest change has already taken place. The Obama campaign has been the anti–O.J. trial, a 24-hour ongoing drama about a black man cast not as a problem but, potentially, as the solution.

Coates is a contributing editor for the Atlantic. His memoir, The Beautiful Struggle, was published in May

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
This whole thing frustrates the shit out of me.

I’ve gotten text messages from people with pictures of Obama holding a sign saying, “I sure loves campaignin’” while “moving on up” plays in the background.

I’ve heard people say, “I won’t vote for a nigger” or “Blacks shouldn’t be president,” and then it normally goes into some viciously racist diatribe.

Many times, it’s said by people who listen to rap and emulate blacks in their style.

I’ve heard, “Oh you can’t trust a guy with the name Barack Obama”, or “I can’t vote for him because he’s muslim.”

And it’s too many of them to just hope that they fall in wells or have heart attacks on the way to the voting booth.

As much shit as I give people here, I respect them because most people hate his proposed economic policies or his stances on issues. That’s fine. But the fact that so many people are not going to vote for him because of the way his name sounds or because he’s black infuriates the shit out of me.

Is the same lying sack of shit who said this about Palin:

…I’m disgusted about that fucking cunt pig who’s doing the attacking. This bitch is the worst thing for America that I’ve ever seen, and the fact that shit like screaming these threats and slurs at presidential rallies speaks volumes about her character and the character of the piece of shit scum who support her.

So which is better being a racist? Or being a fucking sexist?

The worst is being a motherfucking liar, but you already wear those shoes like a fucking champ.

That’s not being sexist at all. I’m sure I’ve called George W. a fucking cunt, and a bitch.

Is it demeaning? Absolutely. But I don’t like her because she’s a moron, not because she’s a woman. [/quote]

Nice dodge. I guess only conservatives can be hypocritical lying pieces of shit.