-since you led with an insult I can only assume you are friends with my seven year old or you are a card carrying “compassionate christian conservative”
“Those of us who have to pay for others to have that insurance are against it. (eye roll)”
-You pay for the uninsured anyway smart guy. You must be posting from a special planet where hospitals don’t treat the uninsured and pass the cots on to you (via your insurance costs).
"Now tell me again how much more important indurance is over food shelter and a properly running car.
Hey…why don’t we supply those things too? "
ZEB how do you do, welcome to America. We already have programs in place for food and shelter (WIC, food stamps, section 8 etc.) The reason we do these things is because in theory (and usually in practice) they save us money and make us look like something other than Mexico/Thailand/Columbia or other 3rd world party palaces.
Insurance, like food and shelter saves us money in the long term, instead of paying for costly reactive treatments (Chemo/radiation, liver transplants, heart transplants etc.) we can use preventative medicine to catch diseases early in children and adults. the reason we feed and house the poor (besides it being the right thing to do) is that if you had 15,000,000 homeless, hungry desperate people running around your country bad things would happen (murder, disease, theft) on a grand scale.
"Yeah, that’s the ticket. Then we will all be equal. "
I don’t see how giving everyone health insurance somehow bridges the gap between the have and the have nots, you truly are a special breed of ignorant.
“HA …”
-Double HA, now explain away your lack of knowledge of food stamps and housing programs as well as the cost of the uninsured being passed on to you.
-since you led with an insult I can only assume you are friends with my seven year old or you are a card carrying “compassionate christian conservative”[/quote]
I asked a question. And judging by this post you answered my question - You are an idiot!
[quote]“Those of us who have to pay for others to have that insurance are against it. (eye roll)”
-You pay for the uninsured anyway smart guy. You must be posting from a special planet where hospitals don’t treat the uninsured and pass the cots on to you (via your insurance costs).[/quote]
Wrong, idiot. If Obamacare were to go through, which I doubt the Supreme Court will allow, I would be paying through the nose in my business as well as in other areas. Do the math Einstein. Do you even understand how Obamacare would work? No, but that doesn’t stop you from allowing your bleeding heart to drip all over a thread that has nothing to do with national health insurance.
[quote]"Now tell me again how much more important indurance is over food shelter and a properly running car.
Hey…why don’t we supply those things too? "
ZEB how do you do, welcome to America. We already have programs in place for food and shelter (WIC, food stamps, section 8 etc.) The reason we do these things is because in theory (and usually in practice) they save us money and make us look like something other than Mexico/Thailand/Columbia or other 3rd world party palaces. [/quote]
More of your idiocy. I’m aware of the food stamp program and how it is abused. But there are no programs which supply people with cars. And there are not programs which guarantee a free house to anyone. Oh Barny Frank and liberal company tried to do that but you saw what happened with that catastrophe. Here’s an idea, if someone wants a car or to own a house they can work and save for it…Oh my gosh what a concept!
Yeah, I get it we can get in there ahead of time and take care of everything. That way we’ll save money huh? And that way we’ll encourage people to do things on their own and not become reliant upon government.
LMAO! You are an idiot!
[quote], that’s the ticket. Then we will all be equal. "
I don’t see how giving everyone health insurance somehow bridges the gap between the have and the have nots, you truly are a special breed of ignorant.[/quote]
And you truly are a special breed of liberal scum. Where does it say in the constitution that the government has a right to make me purchase helath insurance. And on top of that to make me buy it for people I don’t even know? Move to a socialist country idiot. This is still America, barely…but it still is America.
[quote]“HA …”
-Double HA, now explain away your lack of knowledge of food stamps and housing programs as well as the cost of the uninsured being passed on to you.
[/quote]
Giving people food stamps helped to create a permanent underclass that is reliant on the government…or hadn’t you noticed? And GIVING people things is the wrong way to help them. Did you notice that we are the only country in the world where our “poor” are fat, and have their own cell phone’s and computers? And it’s idiots like you that have ZERO understanding of government and its limited role that applaud when government does more for people instead of what they should be doing.
I could give you a list of books to read before you post back, but you wouldn’t read them. But why don’t you give the constitution a good going over at least once in your life. Because right now you are truly clueless!
“I asked a question. And judging by this post you answered my question - You are an idiot!”
Once again, childish.
"Wrong, idiot. If Obamacare were to go through, which I doubt the Supreme Court will allow, I would be paying through the nose in my business as well as in other areas. Do the math Einstein. Do you even understand how Obamacare would work? No, but that doesn’t stop you from allowing your bleeding heart to drip all over a thread that has nothing to do with national health insurance. "
-Apparently you don’t know how costs are transferred now. I will help you. Example 1- Dave has no insurance, he is not poor or rich but he is uninsured, he also has Pancreatic cancer, it is stage 4 and is going to kill him, it will cost Dave about $70,000 to live his final 6 months. He has no assets, but the hospital treats him anyway. The hospital now needs to recoup $70k from this one case they do that by adding a little bit to all of the services they provide, which means insurance pays more, so they charge more, so you pay more etc. It’s really very simple you will pay either way, but one way helps your fellow Americans and one helps rich insurance companies get richer.
“More of your idiocy. I’m aware of the food stamp program and how it is abused. But there are no programs which supply people with cars. And there are not programs which guarantee a free house to anyone. Oh Barny Frank and liberal company tried to do that but you saw what happened with that catastrophe. Here’s an idea, if someone wants a car or to own a house they can work and save for it…Oh my gosh what a concept!”
You seem to have forgotten about the food stamp program earlier when you posted. I never said there were programs that supplied cars, that was your snarky little comment, and I never said a free house, I said section 8, which along with other programs helps provide low cost/affordable housing to people. I like your responses though, they are very easy to make fun of, should a 15 month old child pull himself up by his bootstraps and save up for a house, or should we let him freeze in the street, or should the state take him away and use your tax dollars to pay for him. If you choose anything besides dying in the street then I can’t see what you’re whining about. Paying is paying isn’t it?
"Yeah, I get it we can get in there ahead of time and take care of everything. That way we’ll save money huh? And that way we’ll encourage people to do things on their own and not become reliant upon government.
LMAO! You are an idiot!"
I usually get a chuckle out of people posting about self reliance when they clearly suckle at the teet of the government all day. You claim to be a business owner, if you are robbed who do you call? If your building is on fire who do you call? When you deliver your goods to market how do they get there, roads maintained by the government? If you provide a service and a client refuses to pay how do you collect what is owed to you, small claims court? Contractors lien? If we get “Red Dawned” or “Zombie Apocalypse” would you expect some government intervention? Of course you would, but doing preventative medical exams on a poor child is a sign of weakness, yeah you thought your argument out really well.
“And you truly are a special breed of liberal scum. Where does it say in the constitution that the government has a right to make me purchase helath insurance. And on top of that to make me buy it for people I don’t even know? Move to a socialist country idiot. This is still America, barely…but it still is America.”
When I joined the Army I was not considered liberal scum (Reagan was president). Seriously you’re pissing and moaning about having to be covered by health insurance, or having other people covered by health insurance? that’s not very patriotic of you. It is the governments job to “promote the general welfare…” which it seems would include keeping a growing populace safe from disease.
"
"Giving people food stamps helped to create a permanent underclass that is reliant on the government…or hadn’t you noticed? And GIVING people things is the wrong way to help them. Did you notice that we are the only country in the world where our “poor” are fat, and have their own cell phone’s and computers? And it’s idiots like you that have ZERO understanding of government and its limited role that applaud when government does more for people instead of what they should be doing.
I could give you a list of books to read before you post back, but you wouldn’t read them. But why don’t you give the constitution a good going over at least once in your life. Because right now you are truly clueless!"
You have been wrong about so much, why would your last paragraph be any different. We are not the only country with “fat poor”, most developed nations have the same issue, unhealthy food is cheaper and more easily prepared, if you couple that with poor nutritional education (and lower educations for the poor in general) you can see the problem behind the problem. I don’t always applaud when the government helps the poor, sometimes I just nod knowingly and smile. You should stop typing “idiot” you’re going to wear out those buttons.
-Apparently you don’t know how costs are transferred now. I will help you. Example 1- Dave has no insurance, he is not poor or rich but he is uninsured, he also has Pancreatic cancer, it is stage 4 and is going to kill him, it will cost Dave about $70,000 to live his final 6 months. He has no assets, but the hospital treats him anyway. The hospital now needs to recoup $70k from this one case they do that by adding a little bit to all of the services they provide, which means insurance pays more, so they charge more, so you pay more etc. It’s really very simple you will pay either way, but one way helps your fellow Americans and one helps rich insurance companies get richer.[/quote]
You don’t seem to understand the free enterprise system. I have a choice on where do go and what hospital to visit. And as long as there is competition they will strive to give the best service and prices available. As soon as that is taken out of the equation we will be treated like so much cattle.
[quote]“More of your idiocy. I’m aware of the food stamp program and how it is abused. But there are no programs which supply people with cars. And there are not programs which guarantee a free house to anyone. Oh Barny Frank and liberal company tried to do that but you saw what happened with that catastrophe. Here’s an idea, if someone wants a car or to own a house they can work and save for it…Oh my gosh what a concept!”
You seem to have forgotten about the food stamp program earlier when you posted. I never said there were programs that supplied cars, that was your snarky little comment, and I never said a free house,[/quote]
Yet, both of those things are just as important as medical care. Why don’t you want those supplied as well? Didn’t yet hear it from the liberal medial elite? You’re so easy to figure out.
[quote]"Yeah, I get it we can get in there ahead of time and take care of everything. That way we’ll save money huh? And that way we’ll encourage people to do things on their own and not become reliant upon government.
LMAO! You are an idiot!"
I usually get a chuckle out of people posting about self reliance when they clearly suckle at the teet of the government all day. You claim to be a business owner, if you are robbed who do you call? If your building is on fire who do you call? When you deliver your goods to market how do they get there, roads maintained by the government?[/quote]
You are talking about services that are rendered through tax dollars Einstein. Do you propose that because I am against big government that I not call the Police if someone breaks in? And who has ever argued against having a police or fire department? Is this the best that you have? A silly strawman argument? You’re sad man.
LOL–More straw man arguments. I never said I was against the court system.
Far better than you did apparently. I never even used a straw man to knock down trying to make myself look good (like you did). Now tell me again how I am responsible TO THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES for a sick child who lives 1000 miles from my door step? Tell me how that is my repsonsibility - Is it so that people like you can feel good about yourself? Why don’t you just buy a book on raising your self-esteem instead of trying to over tax me, and those like me, who actually keep the economy moving. National health insurance is without a doubt the nuttiest thing that I’ve ever heard about in relation to government mandates. And you are about to see what the Supreme Court thinks of it and I assure you that you won’t like it.
[quote]“And you truly are a special breed of liberal scum. Where does it say in the constitution that the government has a right to make me purchase helath insurance. And on top of that to make me buy it for people I don’t even know? Move to a socialist country idiot. This is still America, barely…but it still is America.”
When I joined the Army I was not considered liberal scum (Reagan was president). Seriously you’re pissing and moaning about having to be covered by health insurance, or having other people covered by health insurance? that’s not very patriotic of you. It is the governments job to “promote the general welfare…” which it seems would include keeping a growing populace safe from disease. [/quote]
LOL–the more you post the sillier your argument gets. It’s patriotic to take from people who worked hard and give it to someone who didn’t work hard and doesn’t deserve it? Is that what you call patriotism? You didn’t learn much from Ronald Reagan did you? He lowered taxes and by doing so created about 20 million new jobs. What has Obama done? Raised the national debt higher than the previous three Presidents combined. Moved more people onto food stamps than ever before in the history of the country. (Hey that food stamp program really worked out well didn’t it? But then why should they try to get off food stamps when the government takes care of them there is no need to work). And he’s had the highest number of months of unemployment over 8% than any other President since the great depression.
Boy oh boy you lefty’s really know how to do things wrong don’t you? And the funny part is no matter how bad things get you just never learn. Absolutely astounding!
You nod and knowingly and smile when the government takes the money of those who have worked hard for it and gives it to those who now have a feeling of entitlement? Ever take a Psych 101 course? What behavior is repeated? One that is rewarded. DUH! But this last part of your post does speak to your true liberalism. And I guess that’s probably the worst thing that I can call you, far worse than idiot.
I agree with Rush Limbaugh liberalism is truly a mental disorder.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
I wonder who is actually behind the great right wing surge to destroy “Obamacare”? It certainly can’t be the millions of uninsured Americans that spend their days dreading that the cough they’ve had for 2 weeks isn’t emphysema or cancer, I’m sure it’s not the families bankrupted by skyrocketing medical costs and outrageous pharmaceutical co-pays? If it’s not "Joe Sixpack then who is it? Hmmmm, Insurance Companies and their lobbyists protecting their profits, outdated religious institutions protecting their religious dogma, Corporations more worried about decimal points on an earnings statement than the health of their employees, customers, suppliers etc. It is the big man trying to screw the little man (again) and through a cleverly marketed, well designed series of misleading attack ads the people with the $ have convinced the sheeple that their best interest is to be …at risk? If you are against Obamacare I would have to question your patriotism, I question your commitment to your fellow Americans, and I question your sanity, the costs of the uninsured are transferred to you and I anyway, wouldn’t it be better to pay for care that is proactive and preventative rather than reactive and palliative? [/quote]
‘great right wing surge’ ← LOL! Is that what we call the Supreme Court these days…
Help yourself to some free edumacation and learn what the issues are. You think that poor uninsured cougher has issues now, just wait until he has that really lousy insurance…
See right now, he can walk into any ER and get treated completely free. He walks in with his new insurance and he will be so buried under co-pays, he’ll be bankrupt and broke for the next 10 years. He’s better off uninsured, really.
One thing I learned long ago was that arguing with crazy people/zealots/and the willfully ignorant is pointless, you are a lost cause, enjoy four more years of Obama and stock up on your blood pressure medication.
One thing I learned long ago was that arguing with crazy people/zealots/and the willfully ignorant is pointless, you are a lost cause, enjoy four more years of Obama and stock up on your blood pressure medication.[/quote]
Obama has a great chance of being reelected, the MSLM is out there for him every day. And in addition to that there are mindless knukleheads like yourself walking around thinking they are just wonderful people for wanting to continue to enable the poor by handing them free things - You’re so wonderful!
Now about that Psych 101 class what about it don’t you understand? A behavior that is rewarded is repeated. That is how we’ve gotten so many people on welfare and food stamps. You have no answer for that. We’ve thrown money at the poor in a large way since LBJ’s war on poverty in the mid 1960’s. Now tell me liberal wonder boy, do we have more or less poverty than we did then? You guessed it more! Now why do you suppose that we have more poverty? Do you think it’s because we need to throw even more money at the poor? Or, will you admit that this is not the way to actually help people but only a way to enable them?
While you and your wife (you mentioned her first) are patting yourselves on the back for being such good people and sharing your 180-k yearly income you might want to think about that question. Because if I’m right and throwing money at the poor has not helped them then it just might have harmed them and created generations of those who feel entitled to a government hand out.
Now if you can honestly come back with something that refutes what I’ve written line by line I invite you to do so. But I doubt you can do that because the facts do not exactly line up for your side.
But whatever you do no more liberal cliche’s. Actually try to look at this problem with an eye toward resolving it.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
So, let’s talk about the elephant in the room.
I don’t know if Obama’s stance on gay marriage has been talked about, but do you think it has helped or hurt him ?[/quote]
Didn’t know the elephant was in this room.[/quote]
I think he means the distraction in the room.[/quote]
Ah yes. The government discriminating against its citizens under the law is always such a meaningless and distracting issue. Has no relevance on our lives at all![/quote]
Well first of all, that is what a government does. Every single law there is discriminates. It exists for the expressed purpose of discrimination. It discriminates against pedophiles, murderers, drug users (even ones with a genetic predisposition for addiction), the nation’s enemies, people who speed, est. Discrimination isn’t inherently a bad thing. It can be either good or bad.
Second, I was not pointing it out as a distraction because it isn’t important. I was pointing it out, because it is being used out of political expedience to take people’s minds of being unemployed. It is being used as a distraction.
If tax exemptions were made for those with religious and spiritual convictions with some sort of documentation and/or other evidence of such convictions for the part about contraception, would any of ya’ll then not find it to be trespassing on your individual moral beliefs?
One point I think you’re missing Brian is besides the fact it is unconstitutional as outlined (and about to be proven as so in the SC hopefully), our healthcare system blows and is a big money grab for the pharmaceutical giants. Acute care for injuries/surgeries, etc. hey we are one of the best in the world. Long term chronic illness? You’re fucked going through our current system.
So tell me again why I would want to HAVE to go that route? Tell em again if I have a small business why I have to pay through the nose to provide this broken system to all of my employees? If no one wants to legislate food choices then I damn sure don’t want to pay for some idiot’s down the road illness from drinking soda everyday and stuffing their faces with processed, chemical laden foods.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
I wonder who is actually behind the great right wing surge to destroy “Obamacare”? It certainly can’t be the millions of uninsured Americans that spend their days dreading that the cough they’ve had for 2 weeks isn’t emphysema or cancer, I’m sure it’s not the families bankrupted by skyrocketing medical costs and outrageous pharmaceutical co-pays? If it’s not "Joe Sixpack then who is it? Hmmmm, Insurance Companies and their lobbyists protecting their profits, outdated religious institutions protecting their religious dogma, Corporations more worried about decimal points on an earnings statement than the health of their employees, customers, suppliers etc. It is the big man trying to screw the little man (again) and through a cleverly marketed, well designed series of misleading attack ads the people with the $ have convinced the sheeple that their best interest is to be …at risk? If you are against Obamacare I would have to question your patriotism, I question your commitment to your fellow Americans, and I question your sanity, the costs of the uninsured are transferred to you and I anyway, wouldn’t it be better to pay for care that is proactive and preventative rather than reactive and palliative? [/quote]
You wonder whether it is the 10% or so, which is generous, who have no insurance who are against repealing it?
One thing I learned long ago was that arguing with crazy people/zealots/and the willfully ignorant is pointless, you are a lost cause, enjoy four more years of Obama and stock up on your blood pressure medication.[/quote]
The willfully ignorant?
I expect a brief outline why the individual mandate is highly problematic asap…
One thing I learned long ago was that arguing with crazy people/zealots/and the willfully ignorant is pointless, you are a lost cause, enjoy four more years of Obama and stock up on your blood pressure medication.[/quote]
The willfully ignorant?
I expect a brief outline why the individual mandate is highly problematic asap…
Otherwise you shall be counted among them.
[/quote]
Sorry to be lazy and cut and paste but these two points really sum up why its problematic and what could be done better pretty succinctly.
“t will difficult and expensive for the IRS to enforce a tax penalty on individuals who do not comply with the mandate, which starts in 2014 and is fully phased in on 2016. There are a number of exceptions, including those who cannot afford it and those who oppose it on religious grounds. Also the Senate bill waives criminal penalties and prohibits the IRS from imposing liens on taxpayerâ??s incomes or property for failing to pay. In other words, it invites individuals to flaunt the law and may well be unenforceable.”
A better approach to health reform would focus on removing, or mitigating the effect of, existing mandates that drive up insurance premiums. States that genuinely want to help the uninsured ought to repeal some or all of their mandated benefit laws, allowing firms to offer low-priced catastrophic care policies to their customers. If special-interest pressures hamper this solution, the federal government could assist by using its power â?? under the Constitution’s interstate commerce clause â?? to guarantee customers the right to buy insurance policies offered in any state, not just their own. That would enable patients to patronize firms in states with fewer costly mandates. As an added bonus, state legislatures might feel pressure to ease regulations to attract more insurance business from out-of-state customers. Removing mandates would do far more to expand health care coverage than adding new mandates ever could.
When you can honestly debate the merits of having healthcare run at gunpoint, by scum of the earth like Obama no less, that is the end of civilisation.
Just the fact that the ‘citizens’ (LOLOLOL!) sat there and took when criminality was declared legal, when FORCE became acceptable in rational exchange, bespeaks your doom.
Healthcare administered by doctors, working with a pistol shoved in their backs…
