[quote]Legionary wrote:<< The vast majority of my friends are Christians. Well, you probably wouldn’t call them that… Oh please tell me God’s will! Its so rare to talk first hand with someone with “knowledge” of such a thing.[/quote]I’m fairly certain you’re right. I wouldn’t. You have no idea what a Christian is. Neither would God whose definitions are found in His word, the bible which I quoted to you. This is the wrong thread for this though
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Typical hubris. Religion and Politics are not compatible, sorry to disappoint you. [/quote]Is that so LOL!!! http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/index3.html
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Lol is Jefferson seriously on that list? The man who divorced Christ from all his supernatural qualities in his The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth? Jefferson, John Adams, Hamilton, Madison, Franklin, and Washington were all deists to one degree or another. Even the Christians among them do not conform to your skewed, archaic view of Christianity.
Tirib, you’re going to have to admit that if good ole TJ (or any of the others listed by Legionary here) came a’postin’ here on T-Nation, you’d accuse him of being a blasphemous heretic.
Jefferson wouldn’t pass as a Christian among most of the religious people on this board. Your argument is incredibly weak.[/quote]I’ve called Jefferson a blasphemous pagan in these forums many times. My point is not to show that the politicians at our founding were true converts. never has been to anybody who’s paid attention to anything I’ve said which is very few which is what I’d expect. The point is that the idea that Christianity did not inform our founding is side splittingly laughable. This discussion has been done 50 times already. The fact of the matter is that ANY of the founders would fall to their knees and weep bitterly at what we’ve done with what they left us. Please know what my argument is before you say it’s weak. It won’t actually matter anyway though so go ahead n say what you want.
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I don’t disagree about our founding having been informed by Christianity. It was a powerful influence on many things at that time, and it remains a powerful influence today, though its bite has been dulled somewhat in my opinion.
Face it folks. The United States wants what Obama is selling. This is a rock solid sizable win. Look around. This is our future. We have now fully embraced what we fought a 60 year cold war to defeat. It has crumbled from within every single country it’s ever been allowed to pollute. My citizenship is not of this world. I DO care, but I ain’t invested here.
My heart goes out to you people for whom this may actually be the end of your world. But even more so to the ones who think they’ve won something. Whose children will have to grow up in the rubble of what was once the most wonderful nation on earth. Rubble that you have left for them. Wadda shame. Again, Romney would have only delayed the inevitable for a little while. Today’s degenerate college kids will certainly put us under for good.
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< I don’t disagree about our founding having been informed by Christianity. It was a powerful influence on many things at that time, and it remains a powerful influence today, though its bite has been dulled somewhat in my opinion.[/quote]No. It has zero influence anymore. Or a baby killing, gay marriage endorsing, muslim loving, anti Christian, American hating abomination like Barack Obama would still be smokin dope in a dirt floor clubhouse somewhere. Not being elected to our highest office. In what amounts to a landslide over another anti Christian flaming heretic cultist like Mitt Romney. Neither one of these men could have been a dog catcher when this nation was founded. No matter what color they were.
So Academia is to blame now? I fail to see how an educated and trained populace leads to moral bankruptcy in and of itself. What degrees did you earn btw?
So Academia is to blame now? I fail to see how an educated and trained populace leads to moral bankruptcy in and of itself. What degrees did you earn btw?[/quote]This country is sex saturated whorehouse. Where faithful marriage is spurned and rank debauchery is celebrated. Even by some claiming to be Christians. Whoredom is what is killing this country. Here. From several months ago: [quote] I am not saying that there ever was a Christian utopian United States wherein maybe even the majority of the populous were actually regenerated members of the body of Christ. However, from the outset Christian models for morality and ethics held sway because the church was far more faithful then. Before the 1960’s it was shameful to get pregnant out of wedlock. There was stigma attached to promiscuity and other related behaviors.
If you’re really interested, read Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America”. The sections where he talks about Christianity, marriage, gender roles, and general interaction between the sexes in the United States during the 1830’s when he was here studying our young country as a political scientist from France.
He talks about how men dare not utter so much as a vulgarity in the presence of a lady lest he be viewed as one who would compromise the virtue of the fairer sex. A boorish non gentleman who’s company may not be wise. Today the women themselves, who are considered mainstream, routinely talk, dress and act like absolute gutter sluts who would have been thought too debased for a brothel in our better days. For instance. Seriously. It’s available online for free. You will think he is describing another planet compared to the whorehouse this country has degenerated into today. The marriage and divorce stats alone inform us as to why we are falling apart. This nation will never be stronger than it’s families. Period.
I don’t have a lotta time now. I’m up for this discussion though if you seriously wanna have it. As best I can. This is a very cursory answer.
EDIT. I wanna make clear that apart from the grace of my beautiful savior? I have been and am every bit as bad as anyone else and probably worse than many. I’ll just say that in my young days before I came to know the Lord I was a pretty boy, long blonde n blue with a serious gift of gab. Not to mention I had drugs and money. I had no problem getting girls to do what I wanted. If God would grant me one wish I would ask Him if I could marry my wife over with both of us being virgins so we could make all those glorious discoveries together just the two of us. I mean that with everything I am man. I am just as guilty as anybody else.[/quote]
[quote]Legionary wrote:<< The vast majority of my friends are Christians. Well, you probably wouldn’t call them that… Oh please tell me God’s will! Its so rare to talk first hand with someone with “knowledge” of such a thing.[/quote]I’m fairly certain you’re right. I wouldn’t. You have no idea what a Christian is. Neither would God whose definitions are found in His word, the bible which I quoted to you. This is the wrong thread for this though
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Typical hubris. Religion and Politics are not compatible, sorry to disappoint you. [/quote]Is that so LOL!!! http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/index3.html
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Lol is Jefferson seriously on that list? The man who divorced Christ from all his supernatural qualities in his The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth? Jefferson, John Adams, Hamilton, Madison, Franklin, and Washington were all deists to one degree or another. Even the Christians among them do not conform to your skewed, archaic view of Christianity.
Tirib, you’re going to have to admit that if good ole TJ (or any of the others listed by Legionary here) came a’postin’ here on T-Nation, you’d accuse him of being a blasphemous heretic.
Jefferson wouldn’t pass as a Christian among most of the religious people on this board. Your argument is incredibly weak.[/quote]I’ve called Jefferson a blasphemous pagan in these forums many times. My point is not to show that the politicians at our founding were true converts. never has been to anybody who’s paid attention to anything I’ve said which is very few which is what I’d expect. The point is that the idea that Christianity did not inform our founding is side splittingly laughable. This discussion has been done 50 times already. The fact of the matter is that ANY of the founders would fall to their knees and weep bitterly at what we’ve done with what they left us. Please know what my argument is before you say it’s weak. It won’t actually matter anyway though so go ahead n say what you want.
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Why did you include him in the link then? When anyone says “the founders would…” I respond with “Which one?” You paint your worldview in very broad strokes of black and white Trib. America was, and is, built upon dissent and compromise. The fledgling nation that defied all odds to survive has become the greatest empire the world has ever known! We have it so bad.
[quote]Legionary wrote:<<< What degrees did you earn btw?[/quote]Don’t try this game with me. I have no degrees. I’m a tenth grade dropout who should not have lived out of my teens and almost didn’t several times. My avatar says “Powered By Jesus”. He’s all I need. I have done a ton of studying on my own. For the record. There’s certainly nothing wrong with education, but it only makes self destruction all the more efficient without morality which is infinitely more important.
So Academia is to blame now? I fail to see how an educated and trained populace leads to moral bankruptcy in and of itself. What degrees did you earn btw?[/quote]This country is sex saturated whorehouse. Where faithful marriage is spurned and rank debauchery is celebrated. Even by some claiming to be Christians. Whoredom is what is killing this country. Here. From several months ago: [quote] I am not saying that there ever was a Christian utopian United States wherein maybe even the majority of the populous were actually regenerated members of the body of Christ. However, from the outset Christian models for morality and ethics held sway because the church was far more faithful then. Before the 1960’s it was shameful to get pregnant out of wedlock. There was stigma attached to promiscuity and other related behaviors.
If you’re really interested, read Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America”. The sections where he talks about Christianity, marriage, gender roles, and general interaction between the sexes in the United States during the 1830’s when he was here studying our young country as a political scientist from France.
He talks about how men dare not utter so much as a vulgarity in the presence of a lady lest he be viewed as one who would compromise the virtue of the fairer sex. A boorish non gentleman who’s company may not be wise. Today the women themselves, who are considered mainstream, routinely talk, dress and act like absolute gutter sluts who would have been thought too debased for a brothel in our better days. For instance. Seriously. It’s available online for free. You will think he is describing another planet compared to the whorehouse this country has degenerated into today. The marriage and divorce stats alone inform us as to why we are falling apart. This nation will never be stronger than it’s families. Period.
I don’t have a lotta time now. I’m up for this discussion though if you seriously wanna have it. As best I can. This is a very cursory answer.
EDIT. I wanna make clear that apart from the grace of my beautiful savior? I have been and am every bit as bad as anyone else and probably worse than many. I’ll just say that in my young days before I came to know the Lord I was a pretty boy, long blonde n blue with a serious gift of gab. Not to mention I had drugs and money. I had no problem getting girls to do what I wanted. If God would grant me one wish I would ask Him if I could marry my wife over with both of us being virgins so we could make all those glorious discoveries together just the two of us. I mean that with everything I am man. I am just as guilty as anybody else.[/quote]
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Please, humanity has always been driven to copulate. It’s any overwhelming biological imperative. Belief didn’t prevent the simple, godly Israelites from committing unspeakable acts against women in war and peace.
Not belittling you, but you can’t criticize Academia (which embodies the forward progress of the nation and the human race) if you have no experience in the realm.
“I fail to see how an educated and trained populace leads to moral bankruptcy in and of itself.”
The German People were an “educated and trained” populace in the 1920’s
and 30’s, and look what happened to them.
My point is just because a populace is “trained and educated” does not necessarily
EQUATE to good morals and compassion among those “trained and educated” Masses, of course you are intelligent
enough to see that.
[quote]Karado wrote:
“I fail to see how an educated and trained populace leads to moral bankruptcy in and of itself.”
The German People were an “educated and trained” populace in the 1920’s
and 30’s, and look what happened to them.
My point is just because a populace is “trained and educated” does not necessarily
EQUATE to good morals and compassion among those “trained and educated” Masses, of course you are intelligent
enough to see that.
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Read IN AND OF ITSELF. Ignorance and prejudice are far more fertile grounds for evil acts. Of course, you are intelligent enough to see that.
[quote]Legionary wrote:<< Why did you include him in the link then? When anyone says “the founders would…” I respond with “Which one?” You paint your worldview in very broad strokes of black and white Trib. America was, and is, built upon dissent and compromise. The fledgling nation that defied all odds to survive has become the greatest empire the world has ever known! We have it so bad.[/quote]Because Jefferson, though a whoring hypocrite himself, recognized the indispensability of the self government provided by Christian convictions if his vision of limited public government were to succeed.
Do as I say not as I do. Just like Franklin. The civil government can be small and limited because you already behave out of private Christian conviction. That’s gone. So is the country. This is NOT the United States they founded. The stars and stripes may still be on the pole, but the moral engine that drove her forward is dead.
Easy there Cowboy…Yes our morals have slipped, but one wonders why other Places
haven’t been Judged or wiped off the Map yet, because were not NEARLY as sex saturated as
Antwerp, Ibiza, Japan with their Panty Vending Machines, legal Child Porn…YES, it’s legal to own but not
to distribute commercially, The way Women are treated in Arab Countries, etc. etc.
Not ‘comparing’ here necessarily, but America has a long way to go be as depraved
as these other places, there’s still hope for us yes, a ‘second wind’ one day…maybe.
So don’t throw in the towel yet, get your Christian friends together, stop lurking here
so much and fight the good fight.
[quote]Legionary wrote:<<< What degrees did you earn btw?[/quote]Don’t try this game with me. I have no degrees. I’m a tenth grade dropout who should not have lived out of my teens and almost didn’t several times. My avatar says “Powered By Jesus”. He’s all I need. I have done a ton of studying on my own. For the record. There’s certainly nothing wrong with education, but it only makes self destruction all the more efficient without morality which is infinitely more important.
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Respectfully,a ton of studying on your own does not equate the expertise gained by formal study in this day and age. Reading is excellent and is to be highly commended but nothing beats hands on experience with a subject matter expert. I say respectfully because as much as we disagree, its painfully obvious that you are a very sharp guy and would have excelled in College had you the opportunity to attend.
[quote]Legionary wrote:Please, humanity has always been driven to copulate. It’s any overwhelming biological imperative. Belief didn’t prevent the simple, godly Israelites from committing unspeakable acts against women in war and peace. >>.[/quote]When they disobeyed God they came under horrific judgement. We’re headed there now. Because we said were a Christian nation. The world saw us as such. Still does. The blindingly holy God will not allow his name to be associated with such filth.[quote]Legionary wrote:<<< Not belittling you, but you can’t criticize Academia (which embodies the forward progress of the nation and the human race) if you have no experience in the realm. [/quote]You have misunderstood which may be my fault. I’ll clarify. I simply meant that that generation, whether they individually ever see the inside of a classroom or not will bury us in it’s flagrant promiscuity. If we last THAT long which is highly suspect. Of course college is the modern headquarters of whoredom in this nation as well as being atheistic indoctrination centers.
Why do I keep dwelling on the abuse of sex as THE primary issue? Because as I said. This nation will NEVER EVER be stronger than it’s families and libertine sexuality both destroys and prevents families. Everything else is a symptom of that foundational disease. Everything. economy, everything. Yes, I have thought this through very VERY carefully.
Legionary typed feverishy: “Read IN AND OF ITSELF. Ignorance and prejudice are far more fertile grounds for evil acts. Of course, you are intelligent enough to see that.”
Read ‘DOES NOT NECESSARILY EQUATE’, and if you think for one moment that there are MANY educated
people who are not ignorant and prejudiced as well, you’re not half as smart as I thought you were.
I apologize, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, my fault, ‘the fuck was I thinkin’?
[quote]Karado wrote:
“This country is sex saturated whorehouse.”
Easy there Cowboy…Yes our morals have slipped, but one wonders why other Places
haven’t been Judged or wiped off the Map yet, because were not NEARLY as sex saturated as
Antwerp, Ibiza, Japan with their Panty Vending Machines, legal Child Porn…YES, it’s legal to own but not
to distribute commercially, The way Women are treated in Arab Countries, etc. etc.
Not ‘comparing’ here necessarily, but America has a long way to go be as depraved
as these other places, there’s still hope for us yes, a ‘second wind’ one day…maybe.
So don’t throw in the towel yet, get your Christian friends together, stop lurking here
so much and fight the good fight.
[/quote]Oh I don’t wonder that at all. Another previous post. [quote] Where the law of the one true and living God is ignored? Or even worse as in the case of the United States, where it was once at least formally honored by the preponderance of the citizenry and then abandoned. Death, is the inevitable result. And here we are. We were the most spectacularly blessed and successful nation in the shortest amount of time in human history because we were the most Christian. The world viewed us as such. Still does largely. God WILL NOT allow His name to be reproached and dishonored in so public and global a fashion. Hence we are dying at his hands. This election is His judgement. Where the only choices are a communist or a cultist.
This is why other little rinky dink whorehouse European and other counties seem to be doing ok for now. God’s reputation is not internationally blasphemed by them like it is by us. [/quote]
[quote]Legionary wrote:<< Why did you include him in the link then? When anyone says “the founders would…” I respond with “Which one?” You paint your worldview in very broad strokes of black and white Trib. America was, and is, built upon dissent and compromise. The fledgling nation that defied all odds to survive has become the greatest empire the world has ever known! We have it so bad.[/quote]Because Jefferson, though a whoring hypocrite himself, recognized the indispensability of the self government provided by Christian convictions if his vision of limited public government were to succeed. Do as I say not as I do. Just like Franklin. The civil government can be small and limited because you already behave out of private Christian conviction. That’s gone. So is the country. This is NOT the United States they founded. The stars and stripes may still on the pole, but the moral engine that drove her forward is dead.
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No, Jefferson as well as Franklin advocated belief in the Creator as a moral foundation in a very general sense. As in Nature’s God of Deism. They weren’t condemning Christian belief as a result. They still believed that man, and Americans especially, had the inherent right to worship (or not worship) as they pleased. I don’t think you have ground to stand on if your going to argue against the views of my mentor, a holder of a PhD in History who also happens to be a devout Christian and ordained Baptist minister. He has no agenda to propagate.
“Read IN AND OF ITSELF. Ignorance and prejudice are far more fertile grounds for evil acts. Of course, you are intelligent enough to see that.”
Read ‘DOES NOT NECESSARILY EQUATE’, and if you think for one moment that there are MANY educated
people who are not ignorant and prejudiced as well, you’re not half as smart as I thought you were.
I apologize, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, my fault, ‘the fuck was I thinkin’?
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Your tangent towards Nazi Germany was completely beside the point if you had sufficient reading comprehension skills friend. No shit? I wasn’t aware that I was advocating that. Yes, you caught me, I am probably the dumbest person to graduate Summa Cum Laude as a dual major in my undergrad… Your thinly veiled sarcasm isn’t contributing anything either.
[quote]Legionary wrote:<<< Respectfully,a ton of studying on your own does not equate the expertise gained by formal study in this day and age. Reading is excellent and is to be highly commended but nothing beats hands on experience with a subject matter expert. I say respectfully because as much as we disagree, its painfully obvious that you are a very sharp guy and would have excelled in College had you the opportunity to attend.[/quote]I truly appreciate your respect. I mean that. Respectfully in return, there is nothing in at least a secular college classroom that I am lacking for what God has me on this planet for. I have been entirely unimpressed where it matters most by the effects of formal education on those with tons of it that I’ve met. Even here. VERY intelligent, VERY educated folks, who I like and do respect very much, but who can’t tell a tenth grade dropout why they believe 2+2=4. Not even Kamui who has come the closest.