[quote]BackInAction wrote:
OBoile wrote:
The are being repressed due to their ethnicity and their religion (and not just by Israel) and that really should stop.
Do you have a source for this statement?[/quote]
Uh the 6 o’clock news? I’m pretty sure this is common knowledge. If you really need a source, read the original post.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
BackInAction wrote:
OBoile wrote:
The are being repressed due to their ethnicity and their religion (and not just by Israel) and that really should stop.
Do you have a source for this statement?
Uh the 6 o’clock news? I’m pretty sure this is common knowledge. If you really need a source, read the original post.[/quote]
I know they are being forced off their lands due to settlement building, but I never heard they were being repressed due to their religion. That’s what I was questioning (which I still think is bull).
[quote]pat wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
So you both are arguing that Israel has no right to exist?
Yes and No. Yes as in it has the right to exist, No as in it was established artificially and forced on the indigenous people of the region.
Really? So what about the indigenous people of the U.S.? Or Australia? Or all of Europe? You cannot argue that we have anymore right to exist than Israel. What about the region of Israel before the palestinians? You know who was there for for them? The jews that’s who…How far back do you want to go?[/quote]
The indigenous people of the U.S. have the right to the land, we just happened to have killed most of them. The rest we gave some reservations where they can do what they want long as they let us gamble.
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
OBoile wrote:
BackInAction wrote:
OBoile wrote:
The are being repressed due to their ethnicity and their religion (and not just by Israel) and that really should stop.
Do you have a source for this statement?
Uh the 6 o’clock news? I’m pretty sure this is common knowledge. If you really need a source, read the original post.
I know they are being forced off their lands due to settlement building, but I never heard they were being repressed due to their religion. That’s what I was questioning (which I still think is bull).
[/quote]
That is perhaps the most obvious.
You’ll note it doesn’t say anything about muslims being allowed citizenship.
“The demographic explanation
A second explanation is that in order to increase immigration levels so as to offset the “demographic threat” posed by the continuing presence and growth of the Palestinian population, the law expanded the base group of those eligible to immigrate to Israel.”
I wonder how many Jewish people are being forced off of their land by Israel?
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
I know they are being forced off their lands due to settlement building, but I never heard they were being repressed due to their religion. That’s what I was questioning (which I still think is bull).
[/quote]
Wait what land are they being forced off of? This land was under British rule until 1948 when they created the 2 state nation of Israel and Palestine. Then the arab nations got together and attacked Israel. In the Israeli-Arab the 7 nations backed Palestine and attacked Israel and they lost Israel at that time took over the west bank but gave it back as long as they could pump water out. They were attacked again by the Arab nations and again won taking the west bank again. Israelis and Palestines lived together for years before the PLO stated its war on Israel.
[quote]Slayers wrote:
BackInAction wrote:
I know they are being forced off their lands due to settlement building, but I never heard they were being repressed due to their religion. That’s what I was questioning (which I still think is bull).
Wait what land are they being forced off of? This land was under British rule until 1948 when they created the 2 state nation of Israel and Palestine. Then the arab nations got together and attacked Israel. In the Israeli-Arab the 7 nations backed Palestine and attacked Israel and they lost Israel at that time took over the west bank but gave it back as long as they could pump water out. They were attacked again by the Arab nations and again won taking the west bank again. Israelis and Palestines lived together for years before the PLO stated its war on Israel. [/quote]
dude, Israel is building houses on their land as we speak. How is that not being forced off? If Mexicans started building houses in Texas without permission from the US government to even be there would you be happy?
[quote]OBoile wrote:
Slayers wrote:
BackInAction wrote:
I know they are being forced off their lands due to settlement building, but I never heard they were being repressed due to their religion. That’s what I was questioning (which I still think is bull).
Wait what land are they being forced off of? This land was under British rule until 1948 when they created the 2 state nation of Israel and Palestine. Then the arab nations got together and attacked Israel. In the Israeli-Arab the 7 nations backed Palestine and attacked Israel and they lost Israel at that time took over the west bank but gave it back as long as they could pump water out. They were attacked again by the Arab nations and again won taking the west bank again. Israelis and Palestines lived together for years before the PLO stated its war on Israel.
dude, Israel is building houses on their land as we speak. How is that not being forced off? If Mexicans started building houses in Texas without permission from the US government to even be there would you be happy?[/quote]
Incorrect. The land on which they are building is Israeli land. The occupied terretory’s were booty from the 6 day war. 6 countries declared war on Israel and Israel kicked their ass and took their land. This is how most countries came into existence.
The west, meaning us, keeps forcing them to consider releasing the land back to the palestinians, but it is currently not palestinian land, it is Israeli territory.
As I said before Israel needs to be decisive and do one of two things, let the palestinians have the land, or claim the land fully as Israeli territory and give anybody who doesn’t like it, a one way ticket out of the country. Being in limbo is the worst possible scenario.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
The indigenous people of the U.S. have the right to the land, we just happened to have killed most of them. The rest we gave some reservations where they can do what they want long as they let us gamble.
Off on a rabbit trail here but I simply can’t allow this unchallenged oversimplification of what actually occurred. I have heard this bullshit over and over my entire life usually by big city dorks who only paid attention to history when they were feeling up their girlfriends while watching “Dances With Wolves” on TNT.
And let me clue you in on a simple fact of human civilization: pragmatically, mankind and/or society has never had a “right” to any land they were wholly incapable of holding.
Long before and well after the white man ever first set foot on the Western Hemisphere, native Americans were ruthlessly, inhumanely and efficiently displacing their “brothers” from lands to which they may or may not have had a “right”. The white man ended up prevailing for three primary reasons:
Let me cite one small example. The US government, and the white man in general, has been excoriated for decades now for its actions against the Sioux in the Plains Indian Wars of the late 19th century. Incessant war drum beating that the white man “stole” the land from the Sioux has been drilled into the head of every American born since 1940.
Sorry. It didn’t quite happen that way. It’s rarely mentioned that the facts show the Sioux “stole” the land of the what is now the Dakotas and Montana from many other tribes including the Crows just two to three generations prior to the Little Big Horn. The Sioux were despised and hated far more by their Plains “brothers” than the white man ever was.
The Sioux were stronger militarily, had a more prolific birth rate and were mercilessly sadistic. BTW, the Sioux granted no “reservations” to their vanquished prey; they just wiped men, women and children from the face of the earth on a wholesale scale of genocide often after lengthy sessions of torture. This is the reason the Crows were allies of the U.S. Army at numerous engagements in the 1860s - 1880s.
Even thought this is a bit of a rabbit trail as I mentioned it still is pertinent to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Because stupid people with possession of little to no facts about the pertinent history make erroneous and at best, simplistic remarks about the Jews blitzkrieging Palestine and “stealing” land from its rightful owners.
You knuckleheads who don’t know their history need to tread on the GAL or Rate My Physique forums and stay off these type threads. Your ignorance is overwhelmingly putrefying the discussion.[/quote]
That’s all very true actually. It’s just human nature to act this way, but the latest and best winner of all of this is the White man, so he is now the target and cause of the misery. RRRIIIGGHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. (sarcasm)
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
[/quote]
Explain and Enlighten me to the logic of your one liner criticisms.
Study a little of the history and incremental abuses and marginalization of a group of people under a certain political climate and maybe then you’ll see what i was getting at.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
dude, Israel is building houses on their land as we speak. How is that not being forced off? If Mexicans started building houses in Texas without permission from the US government to even be there would you be happy?[/quote]
Incorrect Israel took it over years ago and they were live together fine until the PLO got kicked out of Jordan then the problems started. The fact that everyone is crying over it is stupid the PLO. Hamas and the rest of them are terrorists they have made Israeli’s fear all of Palestine civilians and when we are attacking Afgan over terror attacks we have not right in telling Israel not to attack who ever attacks them.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
Explain and Enlighten me to the logic of your one liner criticisms.
Study a little of the history and incremental abuses and marginalization of a group of people under a certain political climate and maybe then you’ll see what i was getting at.
[/quote]
Ok then, EVERY people oppresses another…geez. You can’t compare building on questionable land to gas chambers!
[quote]Gregus wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
Explain and Enlighten me to the logic of your one liner criticisms.
Study a little of the history and incremental abuses and marginalization of a group of people under a certain political climate and maybe then you’ll see what i was getting at.
[/quote]
There’s nothing to enlighten. The comparison is waaay off base. There is no genocide, there are no gas chambers, there is no purification of any kind. It is action / reaction. The more the palestinians attack and deliberately murder Israeli people, the more isolated the palestinians have become. Israel does abuse and over step their bounds at time, but they also support and aid the palestinians.
The palestinians can be free and clear of Israeli control and it’s so astoundingly simple to do it just has to make you wonder. They must do two things, stop and renounce violence against Israel and recognize Israel. That’s it, that’s all they have to do. If they did that, problem solved and there would be peace. But their hate is such that they refuse to do the simplest thing. They hate Jews so much that they would rather live in squaller than live peacefully next to them.
Many of the problems they are facing they have brought and are bringing upon themselves. That makes it a little hard to feel sorry for them when they act like that.
[quote]pat wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
Explain and Enlighten me to the logic of your one liner criticisms.
Study a little of the history and incremental abuses and marginalization of a group of people under a certain political climate and maybe then you’ll see what i was getting at.
There’s nothing to enlighten. The comparison is waaay off base. There is no genocide, there are no gas chambers, there is no purification of any kind. It is action / reaction. The more the palestinians attack and deliberately murder Israeli people, the more isolated the palestinians have become. Israel does abuse and over step their bounds at time, but they also support and aid the palestinians.
The palestinians can be free and clear of Israeli control and it’s so astoundingly simple to do it just has to make you wonder. They must do two things, stop and renounce violence against Israel and recognize Israel. That’s it, that’s all they have to do. If they did that, problem solved and there would be peace. But their hate is such that they refuse to do the simplest thing. They hate Jews so much that they would rather live in squaller than live peacefully next to them.
Many of the problems they are facing they have brought and are bringing upon themselves. That makes it a little hard to feel sorry for them when they act like that.[/quote]
Im actually quite correct. You;re wrong because you assume my comparison is to do with the ultimate solution. Before all that started, the Jews were
Forced off their properties.
Forced out of their homes.
Forced out of the country.
The populace had a general dislike for those “jews”
They were heavily marginalized.
HIstorically the Jewish people have been thrown out of quite a few countries. It’s a shame but it’s true, starting back in the time of the Egyptians. They wondered the dessert for a reason.
Based on that history of the Jewish people, how can they now do onto others as was done to them? Haven;t they experienced enough of those trials and tribulations?
[quote]Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
Explain and Enlighten me to the logic of your one liner criticisms.
Study a little of the history and incremental abuses and marginalization of a group of people under a certain political climate and maybe then you’ll see what i was getting at.
There’s nothing to enlighten. The comparison is waaay off base. There is no genocide, there are no gas chambers, there is no purification of any kind. It is action / reaction. The more the palestinians attack and deliberately murder Israeli people, the more isolated the palestinians have become. Israel does abuse and over step their bounds at time, but they also support and aid the palestinians.
The palestinians can be free and clear of Israeli control and it’s so astoundingly simple to do it just has to make you wonder. They must do two things, stop and renounce violence against Israel and recognize Israel. That’s it, that’s all they have to do. If they did that, problem solved and there would be peace. But their hate is such that they refuse to do the simplest thing. They hate Jews so much that they would rather live in squaller than live peacefully next to them.
Many of the problems they are facing they have brought and are bringing upon themselves. That makes it a little hard to feel sorry for them when they act like that.
Im actually quite correct. You;re wrong because you assume my comparison is to do with the ultimate solution. Before all that started, the Jews were
Forced off their properties.
Forced out of their homes.
Forced out of the country.
The populace had a general dislike for those “jews”
They were heavily marginalized.
HIstorically the Jewish people have been thrown out of quite a few countries. It’s a shame but it’s true, starting back in the time of the Egyptians. They wondered the dessert for a reason.
Based on that history of the Jewish people, how can they now do onto others as was done to them? Haven;t they experienced enough of those trials and tribulations?
[/quote]
You are wrong. There is no comparison what so ever. You trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. Even if you get it in the hole, the peg is still square.
If nobody declared war on Israel, nobody would have been displaced. It’s kind of hard to live in peace with people whose purpose in life is to wipe you off the map. Makes things a little tense at times.
Ok, explain why “im wrong”. Like Totally wrong. Elaborate on your point.
This is the holocaust:
and this is the Israeli/ palestinian conflict:
If you can not see the difference, I damn sure, cannot help you.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
Explain and Enlighten me to the logic of your one liner criticisms.
Study a little of the history and incremental abuses and marginalization of a group of people under a certain political climate and maybe then you’ll see what i was getting at.
Ok then, EVERY people oppresses another…geez. You can’t compare building on questionable land to gas chambers! [/quote]
With the consequences it is having on the Palestinians (you know…boom!), sure you can.
Hamas rocket attacks = war crimes.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
Explain and Enlighten me to the logic of your one liner criticisms.
Study a little of the history and incremental abuses and marginalization of a group of people under a certain political climate and maybe then you’ll see what i was getting at.
Ok then, EVERY people oppresses another…geez. You can’t compare building on questionable land to gas chambers!
With the consequences it is having on the Palestinians (you know…boom!), sure you can.[/quote]
Perhaps, the palestinians should look to their elected leaders as to why they cannot have a peaceful coexistence with Israel.
All the palestinians have to do is renounce violence against Israel and recognize Israel’s right to exist and boom, they will be internationally recognized with several countries waiting in the wings to assist them and get them on their feet.
All they have to do is not hate Jews, that’s it. I find it hard to pity a people who put themselves in a jam because they are so attached to their hatred; they just cannot let it go even to the detriment of their own people. The ball is, and has been in the hands of the palestinians.