I’m with Israel by far on most aspects of this conflicts. But I agree with this. Israel should not be building new settlements.
Seeing as the entire west bank is Israeli territory I see no problem with the Israelis building there as much as they want. Obama is a naive foreign policy neophyte who should keep his nose out of situations where he can’t help improve them.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.
Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.
Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.
I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.
WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.
Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.
[/quote]
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.
Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.
Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.
I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.
Pat. Agreed.
However, it’s not that simple. The Arab countries do NOT WANT the Palestinian Arabs. During one of the many bloody conflicts between fatah and Hamas, Egypt told their Gaza border guards
to break the legs of any Pal. Arab that tried to get into Egypt. So wghere did they go for refuge? To Israel!
In the last week or so Jordan has rescinded the citizenship of all Palestinian Arabs living there. Kuwait threw out 33000 of them in the early 1990’s Gulf War. The Arab countries do not want them so they can beat Israel around the head with them.
Oh, and the Islamic jihad of course. The one that has Hamas and Hezbollah so enthusiastic abotu dying for Allah.[/quote]
I agree nobody seems to the palestinians, but it really is that simple. Either take the territory completely or let it go. Holding it in permanent limbo is the worst case scenario. I don’t care which option they choose just so long as they do.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.
Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.
Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.
I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.
WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.
Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.
Then you must also believe that we should give the USA back to Mexico and Native Americans and bail.
Dude, you are so all over the map with your posts. I find it impossible to nail down what you really believe in.
Because my beliefs can’t be pinned down. I have a very multi-track mind and have no one direction you can pin me in.
In reagrds to your posts, close but no cigar. This is a different issue and a different time. but overall the essence of what happened is correct, it just happened differently in Israel.
I used that as a very loose analogy.
[/quote]
Well perhaps you should become more linear and you will then make more sense. I don’t think your that hard to pin down…
[quote]pat wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.
Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.
Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.
I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.
WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.
Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
[/quote]
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Organized by the Jewish Agency , the Hidastrut (Union) with own properties, schools and settlements, (just like Hezbollah today) and of course plenty of money from all over the world, the immigration into Palestine starts to grow rapidly since 1933. By 1939 one third of the population and 12 % of the land are in jewish hand. The resistance of the original populace, Huseini of Jerusalem (Mufti) and King Abdallah continues to grow.
In the civil war 1936-1939 the British Aministration supports one time the Arab site and then the Jewish Haganah (jewish self appointed milizia-just like Hezbollah today) .
1939 the british government gives into the demands of the arab government (White paper politic) and limits immigration and purchase of land through the Jewish Agency. Against this politics groups of jewish terrorist fight. (Irgun, Zwai,Leumi)
The Jewish Agency - standing between indirect british antisemitism and german antisemitism takes the british side and starts to turn Palestine into a British Provision Hub and huge military base. The Arab government takes the site of the Axis Powers (Germany-Italy) . With WW 2coming to an end and the Exodus Tragedy Britain and the US pressuring the Arab government into accepting the large immigration waves of jews from across europe , especially however from Russia and Germany. Terror on both sites increases and no solution is found. In 1947 the UNSCOP recommends the divison of Palestine what is approved then by the UN. Approved by the Jewish Agency, rejected by the Arab Government and executed by Britain who in 1948 gave up their Mandate and left Palestine.
This is of course only the beginning of a tragedy and not the end of it as we all know it today. The state of israel was founded of course in its location based on the scripts of the prmosided land and was declared in 1948 by Ben Gurion.
Source(s):
DTV ATLAS OF WORLD HISTORY AND HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE EAST IN THE LAST 100 YEARS.
Say, Gregus, did you enjoy the pictures of haj Amin el Husseini with Hitler and his formation of two Muslim SS units in the Balkans that killed thousands of people, including his pet Islamic bugbear - lots of Jews?
Check it out here.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
[/quote]
Interesting historical read. And no not enjoyable. See here is where you expose yourself for the spoon fed sheep that you are. Because of my differing view point you label me an Anti Semite. That makes you not very intelligent to say the least.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point. [/quote]
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
[/quote]
So you both are arguing that Israel has no right to exist?
[quote]OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
[/quote]
Thank you Sir. And Yes, it’s good that the UN is reacting. The Palestinians that were seen as terrorists can now be seen as real human beings who are in Fact Oppressed and marginalized By Israel. It’s a good thing for Israel to be checked on that.
[quote]pat wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
So you both are arguing that Israel has no right to exist?[/quote]
Yes and No. Yes as in it has the right to exist, No as in it was established artificially and forced on the indigenous people of the region.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
So you both are arguing that Israel has no right to exist?
Yes and No. Yes as in it has the right to exist, No as in it was established artificially and forced on the indigenous people of the region. [/quote]
Really? So what about the indigenous people of the U.S.? Or Australia? Or all of Europe? You cannot argue that we have anymore right to exist than Israel. What about the region of Israel before the palestinians? You know who was there for for them? The jews that’s who…How far back do you want to go?
[quote]pat wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
So you both are arguing that Israel has no right to exist?
Yes and No. Yes as in it has the right to exist, No as in it was established artificially and forced on the indigenous people of the region.
Really? So what about the indigenous people of the U.S.? Or Australia? Or all of Europe? You cannot argue that we have anymore right to exist than Israel. What about the region of Israel before the palestinians? You know who was there for for them? The jews that’s who…How far back do you want to go?[/quote]
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others. [/quote]
LOL!! Totally off base! there is NO comparison.
[quote]pat wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
So you both are arguing that Israel has no right to exist?[/quote]
Israel absolutely has the right to exist. Removing Isreal now would be every bit as unjust as the displacement of all the palestinians.
In short, “two wrongs don’t make a right”.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
Thank you Sir. And Yes, it’s good that the UN is reacting. The Palestinians that were seen as terrorists can now be seen as real human beings who are in Fact Oppressed and marginalized By Israel. It’s a good thing for Israel to be checked on that. [/quote]
The way I see it htere are victims and “bad guys” on both sides of this.
The bad guys are (in order of badness):
- The terrorists (hamas, hezbolla (sp?) etc.)
- The Israelis that keep building settlements, repressing the palestinians etc.
The victims are (in order of suffering):
- The palestinian people
- The Israeli people
Neither one of the “bad guys” is really helping their own people as they just provide an excuse to continue the violence. This is especially true with the terrorists as they are essentially picking a fight with the biggest guy around. That can’t go well for them.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
Incorrect. If anything, Israel is the most legal country in the world as the land was given to them by consensus, by vote in the UN. That land belonged to England before that, and England gave it to them.
See United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181.
Yes, except they forgot to ask the natives. lol. And now you get what you get.
Also it’s curious that people equate Legal with Right. Or legal = correct. Sometimes Legal, is neither right or morally correct.
For example people that broke the law and committed an illegality in having a Marijuana cigarette and got life in prison. A legal sentence for an illegal activity. But it’s not right, it’s not fair, but it’s LEGAL. I hope you see my point.
I’d also just like to add that the same UN that made Isreal “legal” has repeatedly condemned its recent actions.
Anyway Gregus, I do see your point and IMO it was well made.
So you both are arguing that Israel has no right to exist?
Yes and No. Yes as in it has the right to exist, No as in it was established artificially and forced on the indigenous people of the region. [/quote]
Yes exactly. The creation of Israel was at best morally grey. However, after 60 years, they are now the indigenous people and the removal of them would be wrong.
Israel should be allowed to exist free and in peace. But so should the Palestinians.
[quote]Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
[/quote]
I must have missed the news that Israelis are putting the Palestinians in gas chambers or are forcing them into labor camps. I really have to change my news sources from CNN to Ruh-Tard Times.
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Gregus wrote:
We are more enlightened now and need to move forward responsibly from now on. Israel needs to be responsible in how they treat “other” people. They didn’t like what they Nazis did to them and shouldn’t act that way toward others.
I must have missed the news that Israelis are putting the Palestinians in gas chambers or are forcing them into labor camps. I really have to change my news sources from CNN to Ruh-Tard Times.[/quote]
None have been in gas chambers, but many do live in camps and have been killed.
The magnatude is much smaller, and I believe Israel’s intentions are better than Hitler’s, but I don’t think anyone can deny that the palestinians aren’t being treated the way they should be. The are being repressed due to their ethnicity and their religion (and not just by Israel) and that really should stop.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
The are being repressed due to their ethnicity and their religion (and not just by Israel) and that really should stop.
[/quote]
Do you have a source for this statement?