Obama Socialism Posters

[anonfactor]

Not because it’s cheaper, but because you are already paying for it. Most people I know don’t like to pay twice for something.

I meant that the total cost of the care, including funding from taxpayer money and fees incurred at time of service, would be cheaper than private insurance. Who’s arguing for paying more for the same care?

Essentially, you have the choice between a red and green sucker. You can have either, but Iâ??m taking your money to pay for the red one either way.

That’s not analogous to the public option at all. I’m not sure I understand your position.

Government care doesnâ??t have to be better or cheaper to put private companies out of business.

What? Are you telling me you’d pay more for worse health care on a failing government plan than buy private insurance that’s better or cheaper? If the public option is no good then no one will buy into it and they will stay with their private insurance, what’s this talk about outlawing private insurance companies and forcing people onto a government plan coming from? Public and private businesses have been able to coexist in other areas of the market, why not health care?

[dk44]

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Michael570 wrote:

First of all, you’re assuming that the only reason we work is because we want money. “Oh! Those capitalists are so damn selfish!” That’s just stupid. People that have at least a little of respect for themselves want to contribute to society, we don’t want to be little useless consumers, we actually want to do something with our live, we are providers of wealth to the society.

Secondly, you said you were rich. Really? Daddy’s boy? It’s no wonder you hate to work so much, you had everything you wanted without doing anything. Unfortunately, when reality will hit ya, you will see that you won’t get what you want because you are a good boy and you deserve it, and that you actually have to work hard to get it.

Oh, and about med school, yeah, I doubt you’ll make it through the first year considering how you consider hard work.

hahaha. I am rich because I am so goddamn cheap. I have 10k in bank.My parent are not rich, I am rich.You can save quite a bit when your parent pay for some of your food and your school. I dont remember the last time I ate at the restaurant or buyed something just because I wanted it. 99% of my pay is going straight to my saving account.

me too I want to do something with my life. But it doesnt involve money. I dont get any satisfaction from material. I just dont give a shit.

If you want to contribute to the wealth of the society why don’t you become a communist?
Don’t try to make me believe that you want money for the ‘‘wealth of the society’’.lol.
And you say that reality hasnt hitted me. Do you really think I work so hard at school just for fun? Right now it is the vacation and I am finishing the books I will study next semester.

good night
[/quote]

10k is rich? holy fucking shit!!! Don’t chime in on this shit until you get out of school and get a fucking real job…no offense to you, but you are lacking on real world knowledge, when you start seeing how much pay you actually get for your work you are gonna flip…you are still living off momma and daddy, wait until you get on your own. You will not like paying for other people’s bad choices…

[Bill_Roberts]

It didn’t sound as if he was planning on producing enough and therefore being paid enough to be on the paying side.

[anonfactor]

Private insurance companies will not be able to compete with the government because the government does not need to make a profit to survive. It’s very simple.

One would imagine the public option would be non-profit or budget neutral, that it wouldn’t need to waste money on advertisements and that it would have drugs available at or cheaper than Medicare prices so that, ultimately, the savings are passed on to the taxpayer.

Would you feel better if it was supposed to make a profit, similar to how the Post Office is run? Also, why would all private insurance companies go out business? Surely a few of them would try to find a niche in the market by covering what the public option wouldn’t cover, offering better quality care, etc.?

Every politician that tells you that private insurance will still be an option once government gets involved in the health care business thinks you are to stupid to realize this. It’s a massive power grab, they know once they control your health care it will be much easier to stay in power, and in essence control you.

Do you believe that all the politicians who support the public option, health care reform in general or even any social welfare program, really just want control over your life?

Health care is not a right. If you claim it is a right, you are stating that you have the right to the services of someone else, which you do not. You did not make the monetary and time sacrifice to learn those skills and you have no claim on someone elses abilities, unless they choose to offer them to you. In this free country, the government cannot hold a gun to a doctors head and make them treat you… Health care is a service you acquire in exchange for money, be it money from your insurance company, you savings, or some other source, or from the charity of the provider.

And what does any of that have to do with the topic at hand?

Socialism and communism don’t work. If you argue this point, you are ignorant of history. I recommend a library card and some history books to solve this lapse in your education.

Socialism is still a valid political economic schema, ask our allies in Europe. Communism, however, does not work and will never work and I speak from experience.

The gap between the wealthy and poor can be fixed very easily. All the poor have to do, is stop the behavior that makes them poor.

Like being born into poverty? While I agree that one’s personal effort is the greatest determinant for one’s success but you shouldn’t forget the effect a person’s environment has on them.

It doesn’t take being smart, privileged, lucky, genetically gifted, or any other non-controllable feature to successful.

But it does make it easier. It’s like comparing the average joe who wants to become a bodybuilder to someone who has great genetics, the funds to hire personal trainers, cooks, the most effective supplements and all the time in the world to pursue that goal. It’s not that the second guy doesn’t work hard but he clearly has an advantage over the first guy.

It just takes hard work. The different between those who succeed, and those who bitch, moan, and seek handouts is nothing more than a mindset.

Hmm, do you disagree with the premise that some can fail at everything and suffer no consequences while others can struggle with every fiber of their being and still never reach their goals?

There will always be people who blame others for their lack of success, and think success is a matter of luck and not hard work. Those people will continue to fail and mire in it, while others may start poor, be poor at times do to difficult circumstances, but will ultimately succeed because instead of bitching, they work hard and start succeeding.

Hard work is the most important factor but it’s not the only factor, hell, even luck has its place.

[Zeke]

The political spectrum is usually talked about in terms of ‘left’ or ‘right,’ ranging from liberal to conservative. But this overlooks the more basic spectrum, and the one that is more important especially to America and Americans. All Americans, Democrat, Republican, Independent, whatever. This is the important spectrum; on one end is totalitarianism and the other is anarchy.

All of the ‘isms,’ such as social, commune, collective, and such are towards the left side of the field towards totalitarianism. I would say that pure democracy is in the middle, with totalitarian democracy to the left of center.

The United States is a republic. It is the longest standing Republic in history. It is as far to the right towards anarchy as is possible while still being strong enough to protect itself and the rights of the individual. Although, with the passing of the 17th Amendment we moved closer to a democracy, and thus slightly closer to totalitarianism. With each big government program, we moved further towards totalitarianism.

(Just a note; Did you know that there is no specific guarantee to vote in a national election in the U.S. Constitution? The conditions and standards for voting in a national election is given to the States. If you haven’t read the Constitution, I recommend it. Kind of dry in places, but worth it.)

You have certain rights that are specifically protected by the Constitution. The government did not give you those rights however. They are inherent in you. Life is in you. Liberty is in you. Your desire to pursue happiness is in you. These things cannot be removed.

But health care, as a right, is not inherent in you. This is something that must be done for your self, or arranged by you or someone else. Consider; if the government passes a law, and declares health care a ‘right’ that you are entitled to, then you have right to demand someone else deliver that as a ‘right.’ On the other side of this is a Doctor, or other health care professional who now must meat your demand, by law, and at whatever rate of exchange you or the government dictates. Your new right strips the rights of someone else. This is a dictate, ( to rule over or make decisions for others with absolute authority) and is found in ‘dictatorships.’

Medicaid, and Medicare, are examples of new rights given. If you work, you must pay for other people’s health care. If you refuse, you will eventually be put in jail. You have lost some of your freedom to do enjoy the fruits of your labors. This is a small step towards totalitarianism. You are being dictated to by your government, lessening your freedom, lessening others responsibility, and moving all of us more towards totalitarianism

A principle of the Constitution is that justice is ‘blind.’ All are supposed to be equal under the law. How true this actually is can be debated. But look at the Statue of Liberty, She has a blindfold. This is a bedrock of American Law. A standard to be striven for. It is the standard that argued against slavery, and won. It is used successfully, not all the time, to right certain social injustice, and assures that fairness is maintained as an ideal.

Since the New Deal programs Americans have gotten used to the idea that justice should not be blind, but should make exceptions for rich, or poor, or mentally challenged, lazy, unfortunate, or based on race. All should be EQUAL under the law. For if all are not equal in the law, then someone will be deciding who is going to be in favor. And this is a dictate from law or leader, dictatorship, and closer to the totalitarian side of the field.

We Americans must find the areas where we can agree on and build on those things, keeping in mind that we must be careful not to demand rights from our Government that are not ours but are actually responsibilities we have for ourselves and for others but should never be forced by the government. That is the route to totalitarianism.

Do we really want to move further towards totalitarianism of any kind? How far can we go before the weight of all those little encroachments carries us past the point of no return and delivers us into some oppressive ‘ism’? Are we already there?

[Big_Boss]

I’m really surprised this thread hasn’t moved to PWI.

[Annihilator]

[quote]Zeke wrote:
All of the ‘isms,’ such as social, commune, collective, and such are towards the left side of the field towards totalitarianism. [/quote]

What about capitalism?

[Unaware]

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Michael570 wrote:
Waa, waa, waaaaa…

Oh, the plight of the rich white man in America!

It’s just so damn hard being on top.

What the hell are you talking about?

All this fight for the top capitalism is bad mental healt. If you want to spend your life fighting with others harder and harder then go for it.Go ahead, work 12hours per day for your stupid sport car. In the end it doesnt even matter. You will just have lost all your time to be ‘‘the one’’. I’ll be enjoying my life without any of the material bullshit

What a mediocre way of thinking.

No, we must not try to do better. We all know it, trying to be better means being selfish! What we must do is remain tiny little human beings with no ambition. I mean, you will be so proud about having done nothing during your entire life! Working is WAY too hard anyway…

It is sad that your province is overwhelmed by that kind of mediocre attitudes, no wonder that in your province, you have the highest debts, pay more taxes and have more unemployement than anywhere (except for the atlantic regions, but they rely on wheater a lot for employement) else in Canada.

Seriously, that kind of socialist BS makes me sick.

lol. You are an idiot. I dont value myself by money and I will never work 30+ hours per week for someone else so I can afford a plasma tv.

done nothing…lol. I would rather do ‘‘nothing’’,sit home reading books and playing music than trying to make money off the market like a clueless materialistic scumbag.My time is worth more than that. Basically I am rich but I dont spend my money. T.Right now I am raising money to travel around the world. After this I am going to med school.You will still be home watching tv, spending the money from your 40+ hours/week stupid job on your car and your house.
[/quote]

Thats awesome, its really cool that you think like that and can enjoy your life “doing nothing”. Thats your right as a human being. Why do you think its O.K. to take stuff from other people who’s idea of enjoying life is going out and earning more money?

[Zeke]

[quote]Annihilator wrote:
Zeke wrote:
All of the ‘isms,’ such as social, commune, collective, and such are towards the left side of the field towards totalitarianism.

What about capitalism?

[/quote]

Annihilator wrote:
Zeke wrote:
All of the ‘isms,’ such as social, commune, collective, and such are towards the left side of the field towards totalitarianism.

What about capitalism?

Capitalism is a loaded term. By ‘loaded,’ I mean it has different meanings, depending on who is using it, so I intentionally did not use it. Its many meanings lead to arguments because of this.

Capitalism in common usage is held to mean an economic system based on private ownership of capital. Capital meaning money. Wealth, money, real estate, things of this nature owned by individuals as opposed to a system where those things are property of the state. Further, those holding the capital are free to trade those items, creating a market.

The meaning of capitalism has a completely different meaning to a banker, especially a national central bank. It is a description of monetary policy, or how money is created and for what purpose. Capitalism to someone who is in this position is this; to create out of thin air, capital, loan that capital at interest, and create wealth without actually producing anything or adding value. This type of capitalist is a parasite on the economy, because this system creates inflation, and pulls value out of the currency. The recipient of value in America is the Federal Reserve, and the Government. This is a hidden tax that everyone who uses American Dollars pays. This expresses itself as inflation.The longer you hold a dollar, the more tax you pay. If you had saved a one hundred dollar bill back in 2000, that dollar will only buy about .70 cents worth of goods compared to what it would buy in 2000. You have been taxed .30 cents in value, and you are not even aware of it! It is like magic. We have a central reserve bank, an it is a capitalist system. I do not believe that this is what our Founding Fathers intended at all.

The word ‘capitalism’ is a study in and of itself. Just learning about this word and all the different things it has been used to represent will give you a much larger view of the mess we are in.

Because of the many different usages, I try to use it sparingly, and specify what I mean by its usage.

My preferred usage is laissez-faire (let do) capitalism meaning to let the markets do what they want, sort themselves out, with minimal intrusion by government and governments role is only to keep the dealings honest. That is, what was agreed to by the parties trading or doing business is what is delivered.

Government health care? For a mild example, look to Canada. Further down the road after an emergency of some sort causes the eventual need for the government to ration because of extreme demand, look to the policies that evolved it Germany. These things progress, slowly or quickly, to a similar end. To risk a religious saying, ‘The road to hell is paved with good intentions.’ Most of the people advocating universal health care would never, ever espouse the horrors that can happen in a government controlled health care environment. Those things come as a natural extension of giving personal rights to an unfeeling government.

We need to look at all public policy issues in terms of its intrusion on an individuals personal liberty and responsibilities, and weather or not the intrusion is justified. History should be looked at for examples. We should not try to reinvent the wheel.

Lastly, we are Americans! Self reliance is our secret strength, and the key to our success. Further, as T-Men we all know how intrusive government is to us already. There are legitimate and safe supplements, (ephedra, for example,)that some pencil neck with out the strength or personal fortitude to properly wipe their own ass has decreed we cannot use! Let’s not allow the chains of slavery and servitude to take us in the name of safety, health care, security, protection or what ever!

Give me Libery! Or Give Me Death!

Oops! Got a little carried away there. Now I won’t be able to sleep. Guess I will have to wake the neighbors and clang some iron around until I can sleep.

[LiveFromThe781]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
I’m really surprised this thread hasn’t moved to PWI.[/quote]

they all moved here

so it may has well have.