Obama Socialism Posters

Off Topic
21

[quote]artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
Therizza wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:

You are gonna get flamed man. These people just dont understand. It is not a rationnal thing. Rightwing is notoriously not rationnal.

Says the foreigner…

Yeah, no shit. Lol…fucking foreigners. Hard-line right wingers may not be known for their rationalism, but who on either far end of the spectrum is? I don’t give a fuck if I get flamed. It’s just a fucking Internet forum. I’ve been flamed on here for all sorts of shit. Maybe I won’t get flamed. Shit, who am I kidding? I’m probably gonna get roasted. Fuck it.

I am sorry but communist russia was by far the most rationnal regime. You may think whatever you want about them but remember this: they didnt believe in god. And the other side of the sea there was Reagan who was saying that you couldnt trust them because they didnt believe in god.

Are you for real? Do you know how the justice system worked in the USSR? You’re accused of crimes against the state, arrested with no legal recourse whatsoever, you’re found guilty based on who knows what sort of trumped up evidence, they take you out in the hallway and put a bullet in your head. Oh yeah, and no one else knows about it because there’s no such thing as freedom of the press, freedom of information act or anything else along those lines. You want to know how communism works? Look up the 100 Flowers Campaign or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and then get back to me about being “rational”. At least in America we have the freedom to believe in whatever kind of God we want as well as the freedom to believe in no God. Not so in the USSR. Holy shit you’re so fucking ignorant. You like communism, huh? Move to North Korea or China and see how much you like it then.[/quote]

yeah so what. They were corrupted. It wasnt a real communist country . I am talking about political theoritical stuff. We are talking about abstract concept here and having a system where there is no religion is part of the concept. In the book by karl marx nowhere it is written about trumped evidence. So why dont you calm down a little bit. Jesus Christ calling people ignorant doesnt do any good

I bet you are screaming at your computer and freaking out like those guys on fox

22

[quote]John S. wrote:
Schlenkatank wrote:
artw wrote:
Shit, I think most people who label Obama as a socialist, and do so with a negative connotation to it, don’t even understand what socialism really is. Sure, there’s the Marxist version of it that sees socialism as a stepping stone to changing from capitalism to communism, but this is only one theory about socialism out of many. I don’t believe in socialism as it pertains to Marx, but to label Obama as a socialist and infer that moving toward socialism is somehow evil or wrong is ridiculous. There are all sorts of forms of socialism that have little resemblance to Marx’s very narrow theories about it that make a lot of sense and are far from deserving some sort of negative association.

I’m a registered Libertarian, not a Democrat trying to cover for Obama, but I think a lot of people who are critical of Obama and his “socialist” leanings just latch onto the word “socialism” because of its somewhat undeserved association with communism (which really is deserving of harsh criticism, to say the least). It’s an easy way for a lot of people who don’t like Obama to criticize him without having to think very hard about why.

If people who brand Obama a socialist because of some perceived leaning toward Marxism don’t like him because of it, just come right out and call him a fucking commie. That’s what those people are trying to imply anyways, right?

A lot of conservatives are fearful about the “socialist” health care reform taking place, and yet they don’t understand that you can KEEP your private healthcare plan if you want to. It’s probably the best way to elevate the lower/middle class to a better standard of living and even educate them about the importance of healthy lifestyles. I think the specifics of the process will need to be tuned, but ultimately in 5-20 years it will likely lead to a much better system.

Do I really need to bring out the CBO report? Why don’t you go look up some facts before you start talking. Trust me you have no Idea what you are talking about. My advice to you would be to run away from this subject right now.
[/quote]

Regardless of what the CBO report says (I’m not too familiar with it, although I’ve heard a thing or two about it mentioned before-post a link to it. I’d like to read it.) what’s so bad trying to provide affordable healthcare to the lower and middle classes? Maybe the way Obama’s going about it isn’t the best way, but the current system clearly isn’t working very well either. Something has to change. How do you suggest we change it? Or do you think the current system is fine? My mind can be changed, try to change it.

23

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
Therizza wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:

You are gonna get flamed man. These people just dont understand. It is not a rationnal thing. Rightwing is notoriously not rationnal.

Says the foreigner…

Yeah, no shit. Lol…fucking foreigners. Hard-line right wingers may not be known for their rationalism, but who on either far end of the spectrum is? I don’t give a fuck if I get flamed. It’s just a fucking Internet forum. I’ve been flamed on here for all sorts of shit. Maybe I won’t get flamed. Shit, who am I kidding? I’m probably gonna get roasted. Fuck it.

I am sorry but communist russia was by far the most rationnal regime. You may think whatever you want about them but remember this: they didnt believe in god. And the other side of the sea there was Reagan who was saying that you couldnt trust them because they didnt believe in god.

Are you for real? Do you know how the justice system worked in the USSR? You’re accused of crimes against the state, arrested with no legal recourse whatsoever, you’re found guilty based on who knows what sort of trumped up evidence, they take you out in the hallway and put a bullet in your head. Oh yeah, and no one else knows about it because there’s no such thing as freedom of the press, freedom of information act or anything else along those lines. You want to know how communism works? Look up the 100 Flowers Campaign or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and then get back to me about being “rational”. At least in America we have the freedom to believe in whatever kind of God we want as well as the freedom to believe in no God. Not so in the USSR. Holy shit you’re so fucking ignorant. You like communism, huh? Move to North Korea or China and see how much you like it then.

yeah so what. They were corrupted. It wasnt a real communist country . I am talking about political theoritical stuff. We are talking about abstract concept here and having a system where there is no religion is part of the concept. In the book by karl marx nowhere it is written about trumped evidence. So why dont you calm down a little bit. Jesus Christ calling people ignorant doesnt do any good

I bet you are screaming at your computer and freaking out like those guys on fox
[/quote]

Actually, I’m quite calm right now. I understand you’re talking about an abstraction, but theory and reality are two entirely different things. I live in reality, not abstraction so let’s stay with real shit here. Like the reality of Obama’s perceived “socialist” leanings being a lightning rod for his critics due to a perceived connection between ALL forms of socialism and communism. And please don’t lecture me about perception vs. reality. This ain’t my first rodeo.

24

Health care definitely needs to be reform, but i still don’t have a keen inclination to give more of my hard earned money to the government through taxes, so that lazy unproductive shit bags can reap the benefits. Also what is the nonsense about the government having all of our account numbers on file so they can directly withdraw money for health care!

25

I think Obama is awesome and am glad to see him slowly opress the people and welcome socialism.

26

[quote]pete0648 wrote:
Health care definitely needs to be reform, but i still don’t have a keen inclination to give more of my hard earned money to the government through taxes, so that lazy unproductive shit bags can reap the benefits. Also what is the nonsense about the government having all of our account numbers on file so they can directly withdraw money for health care! [/quote]

I don’t what the deal with this account number thing is (sounds way too Big Brotherish for me) but think about this for a second: when some farm worker or other low-income worker with no healthcare breaks his arm at work, or even in some freak accident away from work (I’m talking about a legal citizen, or at least a legal immigrant, not an illegal), what happens when he can’t afford the hospital bill? Not only does he probably lose his job because can’t work (and goes on unemployment, which our taxes pay for) he goes on MediCal or some shit like that and we end up footing the bill anyways. Either way, our taxes end up paying in some way for the healthcare that others can’t afford. Let’s get a system in place that makes healthcare more affordable for those workers so that we won’t have to pay as much out of our pockets for it.

27

[quote]pete0648 wrote:
Health care definitely needs to be reform, but i still don’t have a keen inclination to give more of my hard earned money to the government through taxes, so that lazy unproductive shit bags can reap the benefits. Also what is the nonsense about the government having all of our account numbers on file so they can directly withdraw money for health care! [/quote]

Health insurance needs reformed, the care is the best there is.

28

[quote]VonStinkle wrote:
I think Obama is awesome and am glad to see him slowly opress the people and welcome socialism.[/quote]

Thank you for trying to degenerate what has otherwise been a somewhat rational thread (a rarity when it comes to anything politics related).

29

[quote]artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
Therizza wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:

You are gonna get flamed man. These people just dont understand. It is not a rationnal thing. Rightwing is notoriously not rationnal.

Says the foreigner…

Yeah, no shit. Lol…fucking foreigners. Hard-line right wingers may not be known for their rationalism, but who on either far end of the spectrum is? I don’t give a fuck if I get flamed. It’s just a fucking Internet forum. I’ve been flamed on here for all sorts of shit. Maybe I won’t get flamed. Shit, who am I kidding? I’m probably gonna get roasted. Fuck it.

I am sorry but communist russia was by far the most rationnal regime. You may think whatever you want about them but remember this: they didnt believe in god. And the other side of the sea there was Reagan who was saying that you couldnt trust them because they didnt believe in god.

Are you for real? Do you know how the justice system worked in the USSR? You’re accused of crimes against the state, arrested with no legal recourse whatsoever, you’re found guilty based on who knows what sort of trumped up evidence, they take you out in the hallway and put a bullet in your head. Oh yeah, and no one else knows about it because there’s no such thing as freedom of the press, freedom of information act or anything else along those lines. You want to know how communism works? Look up the 100 Flowers Campaign or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and then get back to me about being “rational”. At least in America we have the freedom to believe in whatever kind of God we want as well as the freedom to believe in no God. Not so in the USSR. Holy shit you’re so fucking ignorant. You like communism, huh? Move to North Korea or China and see how much you like it then.

yeah so what. They were corrupted. It wasnt a real communist country . I am talking about political theoritical stuff. We are talking about abstract concept here and having a system where there is no religion is part of the concept. In the book by karl marx nowhere it is written about trumped evidence. So why dont you calm down a little bit. Jesus Christ calling people ignorant doesnt do any good

I bet you are screaming at your computer and freaking out like those guys on fox

Actually, I’m quite calm right now. I understand you’re talking about an abstraction, but theory and reality are two entirely different things.
I live in reality, not abstraction so let’s stay with real shit here.

Sure. I wouldnt go live in China or North Korea, but the point is that communism is the most rationnal regime. Damn this information comes from a fucking objective school textbook. I dont know if you got objective ones in USA.

Like the reality of Obama’s perceived “socialist” leanings being a lightning rod for his critics due to a perceived connection between ALL forms of socialism and communism. And please don’t lecture me about perception vs. reality. This ain’t my first rodeo.

I dont get what you are saying. Do you mean that because some people thinks obama is a socialist he really is? This is bad mental health and paranoia.
If he was really a socialist he couldnt have runned from presidency. Do you know that there is a socialist party in USA? Why can’t you vote for them? Why is there only 2 party?

It is funny that we dont hear about them. When the watergate scandal came up to light the CIA was already raiding and doing various pression on the socialist party office for a long time. No one talks about that. Just food for tought

[/quote]

30

[quote]John S. wrote:
pete0648 wrote:
Health care definitely needs to be reform, but i still don’t have a keen inclination to give more of my hard earned money to the government through taxes, so that lazy unproductive shit bags can reap the benefits. Also what is the nonsense about the government having all of our account numbers on file so they can directly withdraw money for health care!

Health insurance needs reformed, the care is the best there is.[/quote]

Now you’re onto something.

31

[quote]VonStinkle wrote:
I think Obama is awesome and am glad to see him slowly opress the people and welcome socialism.[/quote]

lol

what sort of oppression are you seeing? When he voted The patriot act where the government could spy on your phone?

32

[quote]artw wrote:
John S. wrote:
pete0648 wrote:
Health care definitely needs to be reform, but i still don’t have a keen inclination to give more of my hard earned money to the government through taxes, so that lazy unproductive shit bags can reap the benefits. Also what is the nonsense about the government having all of our account numbers on file so they can directly withdraw money for health care!

Health insurance needs reformed, the care is the best there is.

Now you’re onto something.[/quote]

I have a few Idea’s on how to do it, but I do know one thing for sure, that giant abomination of a bill they are trying to pass needs to be destroyed. Socializing it is not the way to do it.

33

[quote]artw wrote:
I don’t what the deal with this account number thing is (sounds way too Big Brotherish for me) but think about this for a second: when some farm worker or other low-income worker with no healthcare breaks his arm at work, or even in some freak accident away from work (I’m talking about a legal citizen, or at least a legal immigrant, not an illegal), what happens when he can’t afford the hospital bill? Not only does he probably lose his job because can’t work (and goes on unemployment, which our taxes pay for) he goes on MediCal or some shit like that and we end up footing the bill anyways. Either way, our taxes end up paying in some way for the healthcare that others can’t afford. Let’s get a system in place that makes healthcare more affordable for those workers so that we won’t have to pay as much out of our pockets for it.[/quote]

I see what your saying, don’t you think that if we tried to eliminate the large number of illegals pulling funds for healthcare, it would leave more of the tax money we already pay for those low income workers. When it comes to our standpoint on illegals, we can’t even own land in Mexico, ever, but they can own a house and use our tax money for healthcare even if they are illegal. I think we need to tackle that problem. I also think that if we go along with the tax hike, citizens should need to show that they are productive members of society, or at least trying to be, if they are not able. Dead beats suck the life out of the hard working class if we start increasing taxes.

34

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
Therizza wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:

You are gonna get flamed man. These people just dont understand. It is not a rationnal thing. Rightwing is notoriously not rationnal.

Says the foreigner…

Yeah, no shit. Lol…fucking foreigners. Hard-line right wingers may not be known for their rationalism, but who on either far end of the spectrum is? I don’t give a fuck if I get flamed. It’s just a fucking Internet forum. I’ve been flamed on here for all sorts of shit. Maybe I won’t get flamed. Shit, who am I kidding? I’m probably gonna get roasted. Fuck it.

I am sorry but communist russia was by far the most rationnal regime. You may think whatever you want about them but remember this: they didnt believe in god. And the other side of the sea there was Reagan who was saying that you couldnt trust them because they didnt believe in god.

Are you for real? Do you know how the justice system worked in the USSR? You’re accused of crimes against the state, arrested with no legal recourse whatsoever, you’re found guilty based on who knows what sort of trumped up evidence, they take you out in the hallway and put a bullet in your head. Oh yeah, and no one else knows about it because there’s no such thing as freedom of the press, freedom of information act or anything else along those lines. You want to know how communism works? Look up the 100 Flowers Campaign or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and then get back to me about being “rational”. At least in America we have the freedom to believe in whatever kind of God we want as well as the freedom to believe in no God. Not so in the USSR. Holy shit you’re so fucking ignorant. You like communism, huh? Move to North Korea or China and see how much you like it then.

yeah so what. They were corrupted. It wasnt a real communist country . I am talking about political theoritical stuff. We are talking about abstract concept here and having a system where there is no religion is part of the concept. In the book by karl marx nowhere it is written about trumped evidence. So why dont you calm down a little bit. Jesus Christ calling people ignorant doesnt do any good

I bet you are screaming at your computer and freaking out like those guys on fox

Actually, I’m quite calm right now. I understand you’re talking about an abstraction, but theory and reality are two entirely different things.
I live in reality, not abstraction so let’s stay with real shit here.

Sure. I wouldnt go live in China or North Korea, but the point is that communism is the most rationnal regime. Damn this information comes from a fucking objective school textbook. I dont know if you got objective ones in USA.

Like the reality of Obama’s perceived “socialist” leanings being a lightning rod for his critics due to a perceived connection between ALL forms of socialism and communism. And please don’t lecture me about perception vs. reality. This ain’t my first rodeo.

I dont get what you are saying. Do you mean that because some people thinks obama is a socialist he really is? This is bad mental health and paranoia.
If he was really a socialist he couldnt have runned from presidency. Do you know that there is a socialist party in USA? Why can’t you vote for them? Why is there only 2 party?

It is funny that we dont hear about them. When the watergate scandal came up to light the CIA was already raiding and doing various pression on the socialist party office for a long time. No one talks about that. Just food for tought

[/quote]

Actually, I believe there were eleven candidates for President on the ballot, give or take 1 or 2 depending on what state you’re in. If the Socialist Party has enough registered members, they can get onto the ballot just like any other political party. I voted for Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. You can write in anyone you want. In fact, I’ve heard that Homer Simpson always gets a few hundred votes. But what would you know about the inside of an American voting booth?

What I’m saying is that regardless of whether Obama actually is a socialist or not, I think it is a bit of a copout to try to label him as one in a negative way by implying overtly or otherwise that socialism is inherently wrong or evil or contrary to what America stands for. Not everything about socialism is bad, especially when you move away from Marx’s theories about it (given that he saw socialism as a stepping stone to communism, a CLEARLY flawed, evil political system). Since not everything about socialism is bad, I think it shows a certain lack of knowledge about what socialism really is when people label Obama as a socialist in a purely negative light. I think in many cases people are trying to criticize him for being something when they don’t really have a clear grasp of what that something is. Is that clear enough for you?

35

[quote]pete0648 wrote:
artw wrote:
I don’t what the deal with this account number thing is (sounds way too Big Brotherish for me) but think about this for a second: when some farm worker or other low-income worker with no healthcare breaks his arm at work, or even in some freak accident away from work (I’m talking about a legal citizen, or at least a legal immigrant, not an illegal), what happens when he can’t afford the hospital bill? Not only does he probably lose his job because can’t work (and goes on unemployment, which our taxes pay for) he goes on MediCal or some shit like that and we end up footing the bill anyways. Either way, our taxes end up paying in some way for the healthcare that others can’t afford. Let’s get a system in place that makes healthcare more affordable for those workers so that we won’t have to pay as much out of our pockets for it.

I see what your saying, don’t you think that if we tried to eliminate the large number of illegals pulling funds for healthcare, it would leave more of the tax money we already pay for those low income workers. When it comes to our standpoint on illegals, we can’t even own land in Mexico, ever, but they can own a house and use our tax money for healthcare even if they are illegal. I think we need to tackle that problem. I also think that if we go along with the tax hike, citizens should need to show that they are productive members of society, or at least trying to be, if they are not able. Dead beats suck the life out of the hard working class if we start increasing taxes.
[/quote]

Well, I totally agree with the whole illegal immigrant thing. That is whole 'nother beast right there, especially out here in California where half the people think we can’t function without them and the other half think they’re the source of all of our problems. I’m somewhere in the middle on that one, although closer to the problem side. Illegals come here because our country is so much better than theirs so unless we drop down below Mexico’s standard of living, they’ll always come here at a risk to their own life. It’s that fucked up down there.

But I’ve got an idea about this whole healthcare thing that involves a massive reworking of our tax system. Why not create some sort of flat tax rate, or something tiered in a way that the highest and lowest income ranges are paying a pretty similar percentage of their income. Then we have a Tax Determination Week in which our tax money is distributed by us voting at polling stations as to how our money is used. We could have just a few trivial options with a small percentage of our current taxes and slowly incorporate a few meaningful things into the choices every year until maybe eight or ten years later we vote on perhaps a couple hundred things and we each divvy our tax dollars however we see fit. If most of the country feels we should dump all our money into defense spending, so be it. It’s what we want. Plus, if we all had a larger stake in how this country is run in regards to our tax dollars, we’d all pay a lot more attention to what the hell is going on in this country. There are some flaws in this system, but I just thought of it, so it’ll need some fine-tuning. Just remember this: Thomas Jefferson always said people get the government they deserve.

36

[quote]artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
Therizza wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:

You are gonna get flamed man. These people just dont understand. It is not a rationnal thing. Rightwing is notoriously not rationnal.

Says the foreigner…

Yeah, no shit. Lol…fucking foreigners. Hard-line right wingers may not be known for their rationalism, but who on either far end of the spectrum is? I don’t give a fuck if I get flamed. It’s just a fucking Internet forum. I’ve been flamed on here for all sorts of shit. Maybe I won’t get flamed. Shit, who am I kidding? I’m probably gonna get roasted. Fuck it.

I am sorry but communist russia was by far the most rationnal regime. You may think whatever you want about them but remember this: they didnt believe in god. And the other side of the sea there was Reagan who was saying that you couldnt trust them because they didnt believe in god.

Are you for real? Do you know how the justice system worked in the USSR? You’re accused of crimes against the state, arrested with no legal recourse whatsoever, you’re found guilty based on who knows what sort of trumped up evidence, they take you out in the hallway and put a bullet in your head. Oh yeah, and no one else knows about it because there’s no such thing as freedom of the press, freedom of information act or anything else along those lines. You want to know how communism works? Look up the 100 Flowers Campaign or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and then get back to me about being “rational”. At least in America we have the freedom to believe in whatever kind of God we want as well as the freedom to believe in no God. Not so in the USSR. Holy shit you’re so fucking ignorant. You like communism, huh? Move to North Korea or China and see how much you like it then.

yeah so what. They were corrupted. It wasnt a real communist country . I am talking about political theoritical stuff. We are talking about abstract concept here and having a system where there is no religion is part of the concept. In the book by karl marx nowhere it is written about trumped evidence. So why dont you calm down a little bit. Jesus Christ calling people ignorant doesnt do any good

I bet you are screaming at your computer and freaking out like those guys on fox

Actually, I’m quite calm right now. I understand you’re talking about an abstraction, but theory and reality are two entirely different things.
I live in reality, not abstraction so let’s stay with real shit here.

Sure. I wouldnt go live in China or North Korea, but the point is that communism is the most rationnal regime. Damn this information comes from a fucking objective school textbook. I dont know if you got objective ones in USA.

Like the reality of Obama’s perceived “socialist” leanings being a lightning rod for his critics due to a perceived connection between ALL forms of socialism and communism. And please don’t lecture me about perception vs. reality. This ain’t my first rodeo.

I dont get what you are saying. Do you mean that because some people thinks obama is a socialist he really is? This is bad mental health and paranoia.
If he was really a socialist he couldnt have runned from presidency. Do you know that there is a socialist party in USA? Why can’t you vote for them? Why is there only 2 party?

It is funny that we dont hear about them. When the watergate scandal came up to light the CIA was already raiding and doing various pression on the socialist party office for a long time. No one talks about that. Just food for tought

Actually, I believe there were eleven candidates for President on the ballot, give or take 1 or 2 depending on what state you’re in. If the Socialist Party has enough registered members, they can get onto the ballot just like any other political party. I voted for Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. You can write in anyone you want. In fact, I’ve heard that Homer Simpson always gets a few hundred votes. But what would you know about the inside of an American voting booth?

I’ll give you that. But the fact that you have to raise millions to get into the race doesnt help. I might be wrong but people told me there was only 2 squares: democrats or republicans

What I’m saying is that regardless of whether Obama actually is a socialist or not, I think it is a bit of a copout to try to label him as one in a negative way by implying overtly or otherwise that socialism is inherently wrong or evil or contrary to what America stands for. Not everything about socialism is bad, especially when you move away from Marx’s theories about it (given that he saw socialism as a stepping stone to communism, a CLEARLY flawed, evil political system). Since not everything about socialism is bad, I think it shows a certain lack of knowledge about what socialism really is when people label Obama as a socialist in a purely negative light. I think in many cases people are trying to criticize him for being something when they don’t really have a clear grasp of what that something is. Is that clear enough for you?[/quote]

The problem is that he is clearly not a socialist. He is at the center. In USA everything is massively distorted toward right wing (dont deny that) so some people call him a ‘‘socialist’’.
No I wouldnt say he is at the center. He is leaning to the right but clearly not enough for some people. If he was slightly at the left do you really think he would have passed through the system?

I dont think communim as a system is flawed. People are flawed. I dont see why it is evil too.

37

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
Therizza wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:

You are gonna get flamed man. These people just dont understand. It is not a rationnal thing. Rightwing is notoriously not rationnal.

Says the foreigner…

Yeah, no shit. Lol…fucking foreigners. Hard-line right wingers may not be known for their rationalism, but who on either far end of the spectrum is? I don’t give a fuck if I get flamed. It’s just a fucking Internet forum. I’ve been flamed on here for all sorts of shit. Maybe I won’t get flamed. Shit, who am I kidding? I’m probably gonna get roasted. Fuck it.

I am sorry but communist russia was by far the most rationnal regime. You may think whatever you want about them but remember this: they didnt believe in god. And the other side of the sea there was Reagan who was saying that you couldnt trust them because they didnt believe in god.

Are you for real? Do you know how the justice system worked in the USSR? You’re accused of crimes against the state, arrested with no legal recourse whatsoever, you’re found guilty based on who knows what sort of trumped up evidence, they take you out in the hallway and put a bullet in your head. Oh yeah, and no one else knows about it because there’s no such thing as freedom of the press, freedom of information act or anything else along those lines. You want to know how communism works? Look up the 100 Flowers Campaign or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and then get back to me about being “rational”. At least in America we have the freedom to believe in whatever kind of God we want as well as the freedom to believe in no God. Not so in the USSR. Holy shit you’re so fucking ignorant. You like communism, huh? Move to North Korea or China and see how much you like it then.

yeah so what. They were corrupted. It wasnt a real communist country . I am talking about political theoritical stuff. We are talking about abstract concept here and having a system where there is no religion is part of the concept. In the book by karl marx nowhere it is written about trumped evidence. So why dont you calm down a little bit. Jesus Christ calling people ignorant doesnt do any good

I bet you are screaming at your computer and freaking out like those guys on fox

Actually, I’m quite calm right now. I understand you’re talking about an abstraction, but theory and reality are two entirely different things.
I live in reality, not abstraction so let’s stay with real shit here.

Sure. I wouldnt go live in China or North Korea, but the point is that communism is the most rationnal regime. Damn this information comes from a fucking objective school textbook. I dont know if you got objective ones in USA.

Like the reality of Obama’s perceived “socialist” leanings being a lightning rod for his critics due to a perceived connection between ALL forms of socialism and communism. And please don’t lecture me about perception vs. reality. This ain’t my first rodeo.

I dont get what you are saying. Do you mean that because some people thinks obama is a socialist he really is? This is bad mental health and paranoia.
If he was really a socialist he couldnt have runned from presidency. Do you know that there is a socialist party in USA? Why can’t you vote for them? Why is there only 2 party?

It is funny that we dont hear about them. When the watergate scandal came up to light the CIA was already raiding and doing various pression on the socialist party office for a long time. No one talks about that. Just food for tought

[/quote]

By the way jasmin. NOTHING is truly objective in books. If you want true objectivity, try reading the box scores or the stock prices, or maybe a menu.

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:
Therizza wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
artw wrote:

You are gonna get flamed man. These people just dont understand. It is not a rationnal thing. Rightwing is notoriously not rationnal.

Says the foreigner…

Yeah, no shit. Lol…fucking foreigners. Hard-line right wingers may not be known for their rationalism, but who on either far end of the spectrum is? I don’t give a fuck if I get flamed. It’s just a fucking Internet forum. I’ve been flamed on here for all sorts of shit. Maybe I won’t get flamed. Shit, who am I kidding? I’m probably gonna get roasted. Fuck it.

I am sorry but communist russia was by far the most rationnal regime. You may think whatever you want about them but remember this: they didnt believe in god. And the other side of the sea there was Reagan who was saying that you couldnt trust them because they didnt believe in god.

Are you for real? Do you know how the justice system worked in the USSR? You’re accused of crimes against the state, arrested with no legal recourse whatsoever, you’re found guilty based on who knows what sort of trumped up evidence, they take you out in the hallway and put a bullet in your head. Oh yeah, and no one else knows about it because there’s no such thing as freedom of the press, freedom of information act or anything else along those lines. You want to know how communism works? Look up the 100 Flowers Campaign or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and then get back to me about being “rational”. At least in America we have the freedom to believe in whatever kind of God we want as well as the freedom to believe in no God. Not so in the USSR. Holy shit you’re so fucking ignorant. You like communism, huh? Move to North Korea or China and see how much you like it then.

yeah so what. They were corrupted. It wasnt a real communist country . I am talking about political theoritical stuff. We are talking about abstract concept here and having a system where there is no religion is part of the concept. In the book by karl marx nowhere it is written about trumped evidence. So why dont you calm down a little bit. Jesus Christ calling people ignorant doesnt do any good

I bet you are screaming at your computer and freaking out like those guys on fox

Actually, I’m quite calm right now. I understand you’re talking about an abstraction, but theory and reality are two entirely different things.
I live in reality, not abstraction so let’s stay with real shit here.

Sure. I wouldnt go live in China or North Korea, but the point is that communism is the most rationnal regime. Damn this information comes from a fucking objective school textbook. I dont know if you got objective ones in USA.

Like the reality of Obama’s perceived “socialist” leanings being a lightning rod for his critics due to a perceived connection between ALL forms of socialism and communism. And please don’t lecture me about perception vs. reality. This ain’t my first rodeo.

I dont get what you are saying. Do you mean that because some people thinks obama is a socialist he really is? This is bad mental health and paranoia.
If he was really a socialist he couldnt have runned from presidency. Do you know that there is a socialist party in USA? Why can’t you vote for them? Why is there only 2 party?

It is funny that we dont hear about them. When the watergate scandal came up to light the CIA was already raiding and doing various pression on the socialist party office for a long time. No one talks about that. Just food for tought

Actually, I believe there were eleven candidates for President on the ballot, give or take 1 or 2 depending on what state you’re in. If the Socialist Party has enough registered members, they can get onto the ballot just like any other political party. I voted for Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. You can write in anyone you want. In fact, I’ve heard that Homer Simpson always gets a few hundred votes. But what would you know about the inside of an American voting booth?

I’ll give you that. But the fact that you have to raise millions to get into the race doesnt help. I might be wrong but people told me there was only 2 squares: democrats or republicans

What I’m saying is that regardless of whether Obama actually is a socialist or not, I think it is a bit of a copout to try to label him as one in a negative way by implying overtly or otherwise that socialism is inherently wrong or evil or contrary to what America stands for. Not everything about socialism is bad, especially when you move away from Marx’s theories about it (given that he saw socialism as a stepping stone to communism, a CLEARLY flawed, evil political system). Since not everything about socialism is bad, I think it shows a certain lack of knowledge about what socialism really is when people label Obama as a socialist in a purely negative light. I think in many cases people are trying to criticize him for being something when they don’t really have a clear grasp of what that something is. Is that clear enough for you?

The problem is that he is clearly not a socialist. He is at the center. In USA everything is massively distorted toward right wing (dont deny that) so some people call him a ‘‘socialist’’.
No I wouldnt say he is at the center. He is leaning to the right but clearly not enough for some people. If he was slightly at the left do you really think he would have passed through the system?

I dont think communim as a system is flawed. People are flawed. I dont see why it is evil too.
[/quote]

Well, when a Democrat wins the Presidency in an electoral landslide, with the largest voter turnout ever, and there’s a Democrat-controlled House and Senate it’s a little hard to validly claim that the US is massively distorted toward the right-wing.

And part of how any system is, in regards to its theoretical soundness, is how it is implemented. Communism as a theory may be fine (not in my opinion), but the way it is implemented requires massive oppression and subjugation of the people. It has never been implemented any other way. Because its implementation is a crucial part of its soundness, based on how it is implemented and actually used, it is EXTREMELY flawed.

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[quote]artw wrote:
pete0648 wrote:
artw wrote:
I don’t what the deal with this account number thing is (sounds way too Big Brotherish for me) but think about this for a second: when some farm worker or other low-income worker with no healthcare breaks his arm at work, or even in some freak accident away from work (I’m talking about a legal citizen, or at least a legal immigrant, not an illegal), what happens when he can’t afford the hospital bill? Not only does he probably lose his job because can’t work (and goes on unemployment, which our taxes pay for) he goes on MediCal or some shit like that and we end up footing the bill anyways. Either way, our taxes end up paying in some way for the healthcare that others can’t afford. Let’s get a system in place that makes healthcare more affordable for those workers so that we won’t have to pay as much out of our pockets for it.

I see what your saying, don’t you think that if we tried to eliminate the large number of illegals pulling funds for healthcare, it would leave more of the tax money we already pay for those low income workers. When it comes to our standpoint on illegals, we can’t even own land in Mexico, ever, but they can own a house and use our tax money for healthcare even if they are illegal. I think we need to tackle that problem. I also think that if we go along with the tax hike, citizens should need to show that they are productive members of society, or at least trying to be, if they are not able. Dead beats suck the life out of the hard working class if we start increasing taxes.

Well, I totally agree with the whole illegal immigrant thing. That is whole 'nother beast right there, especially out here in California where half the people think we can’t function without them and the other half think they’re the source of all of our problems. I’m somewhere in the middle on that one, although closer to the problem side. Illegals come here because our country is so much better than theirs so unless we drop down below Mexico’s standard of living, they’ll always come here at a risk to their own life. It’s that fucked up down there.

But I’ve got an idea about this whole healthcare thing that involves a massive reworking of our tax system. Why not create some sort of flat tax rate, or something tiered in a way that the highest and lowest income ranges are paying a pretty similar percentage of their income. Then we have a Tax Determination Week in which our tax money is distributed by us voting at polling stations as to how our money is used. We could have just a few trivial options with a small percentage of our current taxes and slowly incorporate a few meaningful things into the choices every year until maybe eight or ten years later we vote on perhaps a couple hundred things and we each divvy our tax dollars however we see fit. If most of the country feels we should dump all our money into defense spending, so be it. It’s what we want. Plus, if we all had a larger stake in how this country is run in regards to our tax dollars, we’d all pay a lot more attention to what the hell is going on in this country. There are some flaws in this system, but I just thought of it, so it’ll need some fine-tuning. Just remember this: Thomas Jefferson always said people get the government they deserve. [/quote]

I agree with that. but people should vote where the entire tax pool goes. Then it would be spent accordingly to the percentage. It would be simpler too