Obama: Quit Listening to Rush!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
timbofirstblood wrote:

If socialism and big government are inferior to capitalism and limited government, isn’t it redundant to wish for their failure? I mean, if Obama doesn’t fail, shouldn’t that mean that he’s found the right policies?

No, that means he found enough sheep to support his policies. Implementation of said policies is not the marker by which “success” of these policies should be measured. Popularity of a thing has nothing to do with that thing’s intrinsic value or usefulness. Look at Paris Hilton.

They should be measured by the increased affluence and wealth of people and the growth rate of the economy. However, socialism has led to DECREASED economic growth rate in every country it was tried in as a replacement of capitalism. An exception could be made for war-torn countries where it would actually allow a stable form of gov’t.[/quote]

I don’t see where I defined success as being popular. I’m not saying Obama has succeeded yet or that merely passing his programs constitutes success. All I’m saying is that hoping for failure the wrong approach.

I hope he’s successful; I hope that the affluence and wealth of Americans increases along with the growth of the economy during his tenure. I’m not saying that it will, but wishing for failure because you don’t like certain policies seems like a terrible attitude to me.

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[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
timbofirstblood wrote:

If socialism and big government are inferior to capitalism and limited government, isn’t it redundant to wish for their failure? I mean, if Obama doesn’t fail, shouldn’t that mean that he’s found the right policies?

No, that means he found enough sheep to support his policies. Implementation of said policies is not the marker by which “success” of these policies should be measured. Popularity of a thing has nothing to do with that thing’s intrinsic value or usefulness. Look at Paris Hilton.

They should be measured by the increased affluence and wealth of people and the growth rate of the economy. However, socialism has led to DECREASED economic growth rate in every country it was tried in as a replacement of capitalism. An exception could be made for war-torn countries where it would actually allow a stable form of gov’t.

I don’t see where I defined success as being popular. I’m not saying Obama has succeeded yet or that merely passing his programs constitutes success. All I’m saying is that hoping for failure the wrong approach.

I hope he’s successful; I hope that the affluence and wealth of Americans increases along with the growth of the economy during his tenure. I’m not saying that it will, but wishing for failure because you don’t like certain policies seems like a terrible attitude to me.
[/quote]

I’d agree if you were speaking of wishing bad things upon the man himself. He seems like a nice dude. A nice dude with retarded policies. I cannot and will not wish success for someone’s ass-backwards policies to fixing our problems when it will lead us deeper into the abyss of bankruptcy.

In other words, I cannot and will not subjugate my analytical thought and more than 60 years of historical evidence that says that big gov’t socialism has NEVER increased the growth rate of the economy over free market capitalism to my EMOTIONAL HOPE for a man to be good for the country. I just won’t. I refuse to put blind emotive “thinking” ahead of what I know good and well to be historically true and statistically likely.

Finally I don’t really understand your last sentence [quote]“…wishing for failure just because you don’t like certain policies seems like a terrible attitude to me”[/quote]

I don’t vote for a POTUS based on who’s smile I like more, I vote for one based on policies I think will be successful… or in the last 16 years or so policies I think will be less harmful… for the country’s continued growth and prosperity. I’d be a complete fool to hope for policies I disagreed with to take effect in this country.

I won’t do that. Bad attitude be damned. I want bad policies that will lead to decreased national prosperity or more debt or national failure to NEVER be implemented. I don’t care if the POTUS was Mother Theresa, if I disliked the policies she wanted to implement I’d vote against her and wish those policies never to be implemented. It’s nothing personal, it’s just the job. We don’t get points as citizens for being nice to politicians, or for hoping they do well. We get points, in the form of $$ and better lives, for making sure politicians only put policies in place that will actually help the country–we get points for staying on the back of the politicians and beating it into their skulls that they are there to serve us and not their own ends. And besides that, beating it into their heads that GOOD INTENTIONS DO NOT MAKE GOOD POLICY.

85

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
timbofirstblood wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
timbofirstblood wrote:

If socialism and big government are inferior to capitalism and limited government, isn’t it redundant to wish for their failure? I mean, if Obama doesn’t fail, shouldn’t that mean that he’s found the right policies?

No, that means he found enough sheep to support his policies. Implementation of said policies is not the marker by which “success” of these policies should be measured. Popularity of a thing has nothing to do with that thing’s intrinsic value or usefulness. Look at Paris Hilton.

They should be measured by the increased affluence and wealth of people and the growth rate of the economy. However, socialism has led to DECREASED economic growth rate in every country it was tried in as a replacement of capitalism. An exception could be made for war-torn countries where it would actually allow a stable form of gov’t.

I don’t see where I defined success as being popular. I’m not saying Obama has succeeded yet or that merely passing his programs constitutes success. All I’m saying is that hoping for failure the wrong approach.

I hope he’s successful; I hope that the affluence and wealth of Americans increases along with the growth of the economy during his tenure. I’m not saying that it will, but wishing for failure because you don’t like certain policies seems like a terrible attitude to me.

I’d agree if you were speaking of wishing bad things upon the man himself. He seems like a nice dude. A nice dude with retarded policies. I cannot and will not wish success for someone’s ass-backwards policies to fixing our problems when it will lead us deeper into the abyss of bankruptcy.

In other words, I cannot and will not subjugate my analytical thought and more than 60 years of historical evidence that says that big gov’t socialism has NEVER increased the growth rate of the economy over free market capitalism to my EMOTIONAL HOPE for a man to be good for the country. I just won’t. I refuse to put blind emotive “thinking” ahead of what I know good and well to be historically true and statistically likely.

Finally I don’t really understand your last sentence “…wishing for failure just because you don’t like certain policies seems like a terrible attitude to me”

I don’t vote for a POTUS based on who’s smile I like more, I vote for one based on policies I think will be successful… or in the last 16 years or so policies I think will be less harmful… for the country’s continued growth and prosperity. I’d be a complete fool to hope for policies I disagreed with to take effect in this country.

I won’t do that. Bad attitude be damned. I want bad policies that will lead to decreased national prosperity or more debt or national failure to NEVER be implemented. I don’t care if the POTUS was Mother Theresa, if I disliked the policies she wanted to implement I’d vote against her and wish those policies never to be implemented. It’s nothing personal, it’s just the job. We don’t get points as citizens for being nice to politicians, or for hoping they do well. We get points, in the form of $$ and better lives, for making sure politicians only put policies in place that will actually help the country–we get points for staying on the back of the politicians and beating it into their skulls that they are there to serve us and not their own ends. And besides that, beating it into their heads that GOOD INTENTIONS DO NOT MAKE GOOD POLICY.

Wow! If that aint one of them there /thread type quotes I dunno what is.[/quote]

Another to say it is, " the road to hell is paved with good intentions". I have a saying that goes this way, " reasons don’t matter , what happens matters.

I don’t care you’re reason, if it’s not going to work, it’s not going to work.

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First of all Aragorn, where did that comment about “voting for the best smile” come from? I never made any such remark, and I take strong exception to the implication that that’s the way I participate politically.

@Push, why are you attributing a quote from another poster in another thread to me? Don’t put words in my mouth.

That aside, I’m not really sure where you guys are coming from with these comments. All I’m saying is that it was inappropriate for Rush Limbaugh to say, “I hope he fails.” I recently read the explanation for the his comment on his website, and I understand his sentiment, but I don’t like the comment.

Several of you have pointed out that socialism will fail, and I agree with you. What I tried to express in my original post was that I felt Limbaugh’s comment was overly negative and divisive. I wasn’t trying to make a capitalism vs. socialism argument.

There is discussion in the previous posts that the emotional hope for success should not cloud one’s analytical skills. I agree with that. However, Limbaugh’s comment was equally emotional and non-analytical.

Aragorn, you wrote a few sentences there about scoring points with and getting the attention of politicians. I agree with you about voting for the best policies; I myself voted libertarian in this past election. However, I don’t think that making comments such as Limbaugh’s is an effective way to communicate political ideas. It came off to me as a personal attack. I think it would have been more efficacious to take the time to produce a well-reasoned argument rather than an easy one-liner.

Finally, while the road to Hell may be paved with good intentions, I’m not sure malevolence and bad intentions will take you anywhere else.

EDIT: To be clear, I’m referring to Limbaugh when I say “malevolence and bad intentions,” not any of you.

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[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
First of all Aragorn, where did that comment about “voting for the best smile” come from? I never made any such remark, and I take strong exception to the implication that that’s the way I participate politically.

@Push, why are you attributing a quote from another poster in another thread to me? Don’t put words in my mouth.

That aside, I’m not really sure where you guys are coming from with these comments. All I’m saying is that it was inappropriate for Rush Limbaugh to say, “I hope he fails.” I recently read the explanation for the his comment on his website, and I understand his sentiment, but I don’t like the comment.

Several of you have pointed out that socialism will fail, and I agree with you. What I tried to express in my original post was that I felt Limbaugh’s comment was overly negative and divisive. I wasn’t trying to make a capitalism vs. socialism argument.

There is discussion in the previous posts that the emotional hope for success should not cloud one’s analytical skills. I agree with that. However, Limbaugh’s comment was equally emotional and non-analytical.

Aragorn, you wrote a few sentences there about scoring points with and getting the attention of politicians. I agree with you about voting for the best policies; I myself voted libertarian in this past election. However, I don’t think that making comments such as Limbaugh’s is an effective way to communicate political ideas. It came off to me as a personal attack. I think it would have been more efficacious to take the time to produce a well-reasoned argument rather than an easy one-liner.

Finally, while the road to Hell may be paved with good intentions, I’m not sure malevolence and bad intentions will take you anywhere else.

EDIT: To be clear, I’m referring to Limbaugh when I say “malevolence and bad intentions,” not any of you.[/quote]

This makes a bit more sense and seems clearer. Firstly, I never said you said “I vote for the person with the best smile”, I was simply explaining my position and the fact that I don’t care how cool or hip or smart someone seems to be if they support policies that are in my view retarded. If I had meant to imply you said something, I would have taken greater pains to either quote you or to make it clear that I thought you were the one saying things.

I did however take your post to mean that you thought wanting his policies to fail was a terrible attitude re:[quote] “…but wishing for failure just because of certain policies you don’t like seems like a terrible attitude to me”[/quote]. To me they are one and the same–failure of a presidency is failure of the policies to be good for the country, and it seemed to me from your post that you thought I should wish him to be successful in policy because otherwise it was a “terrible attitude to have”. I’m not wishing for bad things to happen to the man himself, like being shot or sick or anything. That is terrible.

I didn’t hear the comment Rush made, and I didn’t go find it, because I don’t care about it. If it was as succinct as “I hope he fails” I find it most plausible to believe Rush is talking about his policies, which I DO hope are not implemented. However, as Rush as a long and distinguished history of saying outrageous or absurd things, I can see how it might be misunderstood when someone hears that. Hell, maybe he even meant it in a malicious way and I’m giving him too much credit. Whatever.

89

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Re-read what I wrote. I did not attribute it to you. I attributed it to its author. Then I asked a question of you - that’s why I placed a question mark afterwards to signify it was indeed a question.
[/quote]
Re-read what you wrote. You asked your question in such a way as to imply that I agreed with Emily Q. There’s a difference between having a bad attitude and being a shrieking fanatic.

The transcript on his site does make things clearer than the one I read originally.

Several of you have pointed out that socialism will fail, and I agree with you. What I tried to express in my original post was that I felt Limbaugh’s comment was overly negative and divisive. I wasn’t trying to make a capitalism vs. socialism argument.

There is discussion in the previous posts that the emotional hope for success should not cloud one’s analytical skills. I agree with that. However, Limbaugh’s comment was equally emotional and non-analytical.

I was referring specifically to the comment in question. Even if I misinterpreted it, I never claimed to know anything about Limbaugh’s analytical skills or any reliance on emotion that he may have. Again, don’t put words in my mouth.

90

Aragorn, I think we’re pretty much on the same page. I’ll admit that I was rash in my judgment of Limbaugh.

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[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Aragorn, I think we’re pretty much on the same page. I’ll admit that I was rash in my judgment of Limbaugh.[/quote]

I think we mostly are too. You just had a different way of phrasing yourself that made me think something else completely.

Like I said, I have no idea about what Rush said. You’re really not so hasty in regards to Limbaugh though–he’s a polarizing figure and often does say absurd things intentionally, though the crown for outrageous quotes from the right side of the aisle has to go to Coulter.