^
|
|
|
See above.
By the way, I should say that I respect you for becoming a teacher in the first place.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I post between classes. Further, I do such things to balance out all the liberal crap thrown at students from the Left. Lecture those guys, dude, not me.
[/quote]
The really rich irony is that HH is the cosseted pet of his socialist teachers’ union. Thus he can publicly disdain his students and their families, his fellow teachers, and his administration without any of the real-life repercussions any other type of employee would face in like circumstances.
Schools already practice socialism. Especially embarrassing is when comrades are too stupid to see their part in it and sit around pissing and moaning anyway.
So enjoy your posh health benefit package, enjoy your summers and every-goddamn-holiday-on-the-federal-calendar off, put your 25 years in at the job you excoriate to anyone who’ll listen, and then retire with your 60% pay. Please, it’s on us. Just, you know. STFU.
[quote]tom8658 wrote:
So… because some people do it, it’s OK? What a great argument… If an instructor gives you poor marks because of a difference of opinion, you can and should appeal to the academic provost (or principal, I suppose, in High School). If your essay was well reasoned and supported by facts, there was no reason to just take the grade. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable, whether it comes from the left or the right.
[/quote]
When or where did I say it was OK? Please show me the sentence where I condoned that practice so I can publicly retract it with an abject apology for misspeaking and posting without proofreading.
All I was saying was that it shouldn’t come as any sort of revelation that it happens. In fact, I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that college professors very regularly engaged in extolling their beliefs to students.
Furthermore, any dope should be able to discern that HH was not actually planning on implementing this policy in class, he was just using it as an analogy.
As far as my own experience with that essay on Nixon, jeez, that was like 20 years ago and I’d forgotten all about it until now. IIRC, my parents and I did bring it up to the principal and it pretty much got ignored. shrug Whatever… hasn’t come back to haunt me professionally yet. Maybe if I ever run for office.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I have decided to share the wealth — I will now take points from my A and B students and give those points to those making less. The goal is for everyone to have a C+.
Of course, the idea is predicated on the A and B students continuing to work hard, and those with lower grades also resisting the temptation to loaf. If they don’t work up to their ability, I will institute my version of a ‘Secret Police’ and force them, through detentions and suspensions, to work to their very best.
I’m sure some parents and students will complain, but then I can simply say, “Well, you folks voted for just exactly the same thing when you voted for Obama. Why do you object to me using those very same principles in my classroom?”
It’s also so very perfectly logical.[/quote]
If you did it, I think it would be funny as hell.
I also know that if you did it to my class, I would simply stop attempting to even do anything in class. For my tests, I would just try to figure out how to make some cool pictures on my scan-tron. I mean, everyone else will just support me, so why should I even try to lead?
[quote]RebornTN wrote:
I also know that if you did it to my class, I would simply stop attempting to even do anything in class. For my tests, I would just try to figure out how to make some cool pictures on my scan-tron. I mean, everyone else will just support me, so why should I even try to lead?[/quote]
That would be funny. It would be like the tenured teachers, not even bothering to pretend they take their jobs seriously.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
I can’t believe you’re a teacher. That explains why schools are so fucked up.[/quote]
Quite the opposite. Not enough teachers actually make kids think nowadays.
I wish teachers would do more of this. Instead of preaching “Utopia leftist socialism.” This show consequences and real life outcomes of socialism and trickle up class warfare.
No offense to HH, but I feel that teachers should all take 2-3 year sabaticals and take on a private sector job as continuing education every 10 years so they can see THE REAL WORLD for what it is.
Too many proffs out there hide from the real world, have no idea what it takes to run a business and need that light shed on them, instead of living and preaching from their protective fantasyland bubble most live in.
THIS is why education sucks. I applaud HH for this experiment. Maybe it will get some of the kids to think about what the founding priciples of our government actually are.
[quote]RebornTN wrote:
I also know that if you did it to my class, I would simply stop attempting to even do anything in class. For my tests, I would just try to figure out how to make some cool pictures on my scan-tron. I mean, everyone else will just support me, so why should I even try to lead?[/quote]
And now you understand what the “fairness”, “Neighborly”, “Spread the Wealth” initiatives actually create in their true outcome…total and complete lack of motivation to do better than the next guy.
LIFE is a competition. As soon as it is not, we are all just cows to the slaughter.
Wrong dude, Teaching the principles of the constitution is AMERICAN HISTORY, not ideology. Just because your political affiliations don’t see eye to eye with the constitution, doesn’t mean HH can’t teach his kids that. In fact, it is his duty to teach them every fucking thing in it, over and over and over. That way when they grow up and learn about how much these politician assholes are raping the constitution, they can help vote them out of office.
V
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
Bingo. My problem is that you’re in a position of power and influence over young minds, and from I can tell, you’re more than happy to convert kids to hold your own ideologies and viewpoints, regardless of what they may be. I’d object just as much if you had written a post about how Mccain wants to bomb the shit out of everyone. Teachers are supposed to educate, not brainwash.
tom8658 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
I can’t believe you’re a teacher. That explains why schools are so fucked up.
If you can refute my logic, then I shall here it gladly.
I highly suspect you’ll be unable to establish a true premise for you’re Modus Ponenes argument, though. Try Modus Tollens.
You misspelled “hear”, “your”, and “ponens”. Congratulations.
Here’s a start:
(1) Spreading campaign rhetoric under the guise of instruction is abuse of power.
(2) You suggested that you would spread campaign rheotic in your classes.
(3) By MP from 1 and 2: You are abusing your power as a teacher.
[/quote]
[quote]Norwell Bob wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
So… because some people do it, it’s OK? What a great argument… If an instructor gives you poor marks because of a difference of opinion, you can and should appeal to the academic provost (or principal, I suppose, in High School). If your essay was well reasoned and supported by facts, there was no reason to just take the grade. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable, whether it comes from the left or the right.
When or where did I say it was OK? Please show me the sentence where I condoned that practice so I can publicly retract it with an abject apology for misspeaking and posting without proofreading.
All I was saying was that it shouldn’t come as any sort of revelation that it happens. In fact, I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that college professors very regularly engaged in extolling their beliefs to students.
Furthermore, any dope should be able to discern that HH was not actually planning on implementing this policy in class, he was just using it as an analogy.
As far as my own experience with that essay on Nixon, jeez, that was like 20 years ago and I’d forgotten all about it until now. IIRC, my parents and I did bring it up to the principal and it pretty much got ignored. shrug Whatever… hasn’t come back to haunt me professionally yet. Maybe if I ever run for office.
[/quote]
You’re right, you didn’t. It sounded like you were implying that it was alright for HH to right-wing-ize his kids because liberal instructors have been doing it, mainly because of the post to which you responded, and the way in which you responded. I’m sorry I misunderstood.
The fact that he doesn’t actually plan to do it (which I cleverly discerned by not being a moron, coupled with an assumption that he would like to keep his job) doesn’t make it any less of a bad idea, and it doesn’t make the analogy any less misleading. That is by far the most troubling issue here.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Wrong dude, Teaching the principles of the constitution is AMERICAN HISTORY, not ideology. Just because your political affiliations don’t see eye to eye with the constitution, doesn’t mean HH can’t teach his kids that. In fact, it is his duty to teach them every fucking thing in it, over and over and over. That way when they grow up and learn about how much these politician assholes are raping the constitution, they can help vote them out of office.
V
[/quote]
How does his experiment “teach the principles of the constitution”? As far as I know, all it says about taxation is that the government has the right to set it. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that your argument is completely irrelevant.
Apology accepted, thanks for stepping up.
Can you summarize in a sentence or two how his analogy is misleading?
[quote]tom8658 wrote:
Norwell Bob wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
So… because some people do it, it’s OK? What a great argument… If an instructor gives you poor marks because of a difference of opinion, you can and should appeal to the academic provost (or principal, I suppose, in High School). If your essay was well reasoned and supported by facts, there was no reason to just take the grade. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable, whether it comes from the left or the right.
When or where did I say it was OK? Please show me the sentence where I condoned that practice so I can publicly retract it with an abject apology for misspeaking and posting without proofreading.
All I was saying was that it shouldn’t come as any sort of revelation that it happens. In fact, I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that college professors very regularly engaged in extolling their beliefs to students.
Furthermore, any dope should be able to discern that HH was not actually planning on implementing this policy in class, he was just using it as an analogy.
As far as my own experience with that essay on Nixon, jeez, that was like 20 years ago and I’d forgotten all about it until now. IIRC, my parents and I did bring it up to the principal and it pretty much got ignored. shrug Whatever… hasn’t come back to haunt me professionally yet. Maybe if I ever run for office.
You’re right, you didn’t. It sounded like you were implying that it was alright for HH to right-wing-ize his kids because liberal instructors have been doing it, mainly because of the post to which you responded, and the way in which you responded. I’m sorry I misunderstood.
The fact that he doesn’t actually plan to do it (which I cleverly discerned by not being a moron, coupled with an assumption that he would like to keep his job) doesn’t make it any less of a bad idea, and it doesn’t make the analogy any less misleading. That is by far the most troubling issue here.[/quote]
[quote]Norwell Bob wrote:
Apology accepted, thanks for stepping up.
Can you summarize in a sentence or two how his analogy is misleading?
[/quote]
I posted this earlier, it pretty much sums up how I feel:
The analogy of grade redistribution to progressive taxation may or may not be apt, I don’t care to argue either way. But calling it Obamanization is misleading: I don’t see McCain calling for a flat tax, ergo McCain supports similar socialist policies (i.e. progressive taxation), ergo McCain is a socialist.
I didn’t post this, but it might make my point clearer:
Supporting one socialist policy does not make a candidate socialist, any more than crossing the aisle on some issues turns Democrats into Republicans. It would be more correct to say that Obama is more socialist than McCain, because he supports more policies that could be viewed as socialist, but then the statement looses it’s shock value, so it’s no longer useful for the campaign. The only candidate who can truly say that he is not at all socialist is the Libertarian, Barr.
I think I ran over the one or two sentence limit.
[quote]tom8658 wrote:
Norwell Bob wrote:
Apology accepted, thanks for stepping up.
Can you summarize in a sentence or two how his analogy is misleading?
I posted this earlier, it pretty much sums up how I feel:
The analogy of grade redistribution to progressive taxation may or may not be apt, I don’t care to argue either way. But calling it Obamanization is misleading: I don’t see McCain calling for a flat tax, ergo McCain supports similar socialist policies (i.e. progressive taxation), ergo McCain is a socialist.
I didn’t post this, but it might make my point clearer:
Supporting one socialist policy does not make a candidate socialist, any more than crossing the aisle on some issues turns Democrats into Republicans. It would be more correct to say that Obama is more socialist than McCain, because he supports more policies that could be viewed as socialist, but then the statement looses it’s shock value, so it’s no longer useful for the campaign. The only candidate who can truly say that he is not at all socialist is the Libertarian, Barr.
I think I ran over the one or two sentence limit.[/quote]
How can you guys not understand the difference between wealth redistribution and a progressive tax?
No one is bitching about a progressive tax - at least not here. HH’s point is against wealth redistribution.
You do realize that there will be people getting “refunds” who pay no tax whatsoever, right?
If it were truly a progressive tax, the people who owed no tax would pay none, and it would end there. But not with wealth redistribution - the guy who owes no tax gets a fucking check from the government as reward for being a lazy piece of shit.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
How can you guys not understand the difference between wealth redistribution and a progressive tax?
No one is bitching about a progressive tax - at least not here. HH’s point is against wealth redistribution.
You do realize that there will be people getting “refunds” who pay no tax whatsoever, right?
If it were truly a progressive tax, the people who owed no tax would pay none, and it would end there. But not with wealth redistribution - the guy who owes no tax gets a fucking check from the government as reward for being a lazy piece of shit.
[/quote]
Seems like 99% of people I talk to don’t get this point. And I blame that on McCain, because he doesn’t seem to really get it himself and can’t explain it clearly.
The issue is allowing individuals to directly profit monetarily off of other individuals via the tax system, not the progressive nature of the brackets themselves (that’s another issue).
A public school teacher? Paid a salary which is collectively bargined without rergard to your personal performance?
Fucking workers unions! Socialist scum.
Put your money where your mouth is.
Me on the other hand, someone employed on a private contract between employer and employee which is privately negotiated based on my skills - I can be annoyed at socialist policies spreading my wealth (tax) around.
But then, I do expect public health care and unemployment benefits incase I lose my job.
Shit. I can’t decide on being a conservative or liberal.
Things are not that simple.
[quote]Norwell Bob wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
Bingo. My problem is that you’re in a position of power and influence over young minds, and from I can tell, you’re more than happy to convert kids to hold your own ideologies and viewpoints, regardless of what they may be. I’d object just as much if you had written a post about how Mccain wants to bomb the shit out of everyone. Teachers are supposed to educate, not brainwash.
LOL! I’m guessing you didn’t go to college because, if you had, the idea of teachers/professors trying to brainwash students with their political ideology wouldn’t come as any sort of revelation at all. Hell, even my 10th grade history teacher was constantly spouting socialist liberal bullshit.
In fact, now that I think about it, so did my 8th grade politics teacher…
I’m sure it goes back much further than that, but I probably just wasn’t politically aware enough to pick up on it, until Mr. Whats-his-name gave me a D on the midterm report I did on Nixon because I treated him objectively rather than villifying him for ten pages. And, yeah, that’s exactly why I got the D.
I understand the point HH is trying to make… and his analogy is apt.[/quote]
Thanks NB. What’s interesting is that most of Obama’s supporter’s wouldn’t know what ‘apt’ means, btw.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
The really rich irony is that HH is the cosseted pet of his socialist teachers’ union. Thus he can publicly disdain his students and their families, his fellow teachers, and his administration without any of the real-life repercussions any other type of employee would face in like circumstances.
Schools already practice socialism. Especially embarrassing is when comrades are too stupid to see their part in it and sit around pissing and moaning anyway.
So enjoy your posh health benefit package, enjoy your summers and every-goddamn-holiday-on-the-federal-calendar off, put your 25 years in at the job you excoriate to anyone who’ll listen, and then retire with your 60% pay. Please, it’s on us. Just, you know. STFU.
[/quote]
Sir, I teach in a private high school.
[quote]RebornTN wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I have decided to share the wealth — I will now take points from my A and B students and give those points to those making less. The goal is for everyone to have a C+.
Of course, the idea is predicated on the A and B students continuing to work hard, and those with lower grades also resisting the temptation to loaf. If they don’t work up to their ability, I will institute my version of a ‘Secret Police’ and force them, through detentions and suspensions, to work to their very best.
I’m sure some parents and students will complain, but then I can simply say, “Well, you folks voted for just exactly the same thing when you voted for Obama. Why do you object to me using those very same principles in my classroom?”
It’s also so very perfectly logical.
If you did it, I think it would be funny as hell.
I also know that if you did it to my class, I would simply stop attempting to even do anything in class. For my tests, I would just try to figure out how to make some cool pictures on my scan-tron. I mean, everyone else will just support me, so why should I even try to lead?[/quote]
Every socialist country has to resort to force/intimidation of some sort in order to gain compliance from those with ability. Few will work if their reward is to watch slobbering hordes gobble down their efforts. The governments invent things like the Gulag Archipelago (Soviet Socialism) and Forced Labor Camps (National Socialism).
So unless you word as hard as possible for the good of your fellow students, you’d have to be punished with detentions and suspensions. In some states, you’d be paddled.
Isn’t socialism just wonderful?
[quote]Qualay wrote:
For her part, Sarah Palin, who has lately taken to calling Obama ?Barack the Wealth Spreader,? seems to be something of a suspect character herself. She is, at the very least, a fellow-traveller of what might be called socialism with an Alaskan face. The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields.
The proceeds finance the government?s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year?s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist?Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine?that ?we?re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it?s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.? Perhaps there is some meaningful distinction between spreading the wealth and sharing it (?collectively,? no less), but finding it would require the analytic skills of Karl the Marxist.
[/quote]
These are the perks you get for living at the end of the fucking world. Plus freezing your ass off and being in the dark 3/4 of the year.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Sir, I teach in a private high school. [/quote]
My apologies.
But to be sure, I’ll ask, are you a member of a teacher’s union?