[quote]pat wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why is Ayers a bad person?
Oh I don’t know, does being a cold blooded murderer make one bad? Because he is one.[/quote]
Who did he murder?
[quote]dhickey wrote:
you guys are funny. arguing over why islamic extremists hate us. It has little to do with us other than we are the most convient target for creating propaganda and hate for the sole purpose of recruitment. Islamic extremist have been waging their own little wars since the inception of the religion. ok not since inception but shortly their after.
Since we are unlikely to see a Kalifate (sp?) rule the world, I would say that they are going to continue to wage war with someone. So in other words, it’s not personal, they just need someone to fight with. They wouldn’t know what to do if they weren’t at war with someone. They would find themselves with few recruits and their numbers would dwindle as more joined the ranks of moderate muslims. Please don’t ask me what a moderate muslim is, I just had to come up with something there. You get the point.[/quote]
I don’t necessarily disagree but I think it’s foolish to ignore the fact that we have been poking our nose over there for decades now and think that has minimal to do with it.
The rulers over there can stir up a lot of Muslim vs. heathen hate using religion as a tool when it’s really all for personal and political power. The more hate propaganda against us the more power they gain. If we didn’t move in and out of the middle east’s issues like it was our job over the last 30 years I doubt there would be as much for them to gain politically.
Would there be some hatred still? Of course, but not to this extent IMO.
The answer always lies somewhere in the middle.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
you guys are funny. arguing over why islamic extremists hate us. It has little to do with us other than we are the most convient target for creating propaganda and hate for the sole purpose of recruitment. Islamic extremist have been waging their own little wars since the inception of the religion. ok not since inception but shortly their after.
[/quote]
When you bomb people whose only crime was living in a country whose government they could do nothing about and call it “democratization” it really insults them. They might want to come back and kill you for no other reason than the one that caused them to have to watch their brothers, sisters, and parents get blown to smithereens for. However, yes, it is really tragic when innocent people get caught up in a slaughter created by governments who have differences of opinion.
It is really too bad we will never know the evil things that have been done with American tax-dollars – and not just by Americans.
Michael Scheuer, former head of the CIA’s counterterrorism unit on Bin Laden, after decades of foreign intelligence gathering, concludes that you are wrong.
Why do you, dhickey, an anonymous internet poster, feel more qualified than Scheuer to make this kind of a judgement. As you would have it, this guy is clueless and “funny.”
A review of his book, linked below, summarizes Scheurer’s position and lists the top reasons why the terrorists target us:
[i]* American troops on the Arabian Peninsula, with its sacred cities of Mecca, where Mohammed was born, and Medina, where he established the first Muslim state.
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American support for corrupt tyrannies, as in Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
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American theft of Arab oil, which is to say, buying it at lower cost than is justifiable.
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Israeli occupation of Palestine, including Jerusalem, and unqualified U.S. support for Israel.
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The American invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, with the consequent slaughter of thousands of Muslims. (Iraq is considered sacred territory because it was the site of the Caliphate for half a millennium.)
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Aggression against Muslims worldwide, as in Somalia, Timor, the Philippines. (These last two can hardly be blamed on the United States.)
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Cultural aggression by the West through television, the Internet, and other means of mass communication. [/i]
But I suppose we should ignore the counterterrorism experts because dhickey finds it convenient to ignore the facts.
Right, “funny.”
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Nich wrote:
alot of americans,and I also point to people on this board.
alot of people speak without acting,the what I would do type thing.
also alot of people blindly follow the actions or orders of someone else,with little free thinking of their own,however the ysay they are free thinkers,because america is free.
as long as you think like everyone else and become the “majoriaty”
point in fact,people are sheep and they are pussies.
the yworry about what everyone thinks of them and dont care about what they think of themselves,hey if everyone else likes you then whast the point to self respect I mean you like what they like so you will like yourself as well.
I see a man,went about the message the wrong way,but a man like alot of men in the 60s and 70s that went against the grain.
a man that not only speaks out against what he thinks is wrong but acts on it no mater what anyone else thinks or says.
criminal,sure he is,but he has also done alot of good with education he wasnt killing and hurting people for the sake of doing it.
IMO more people need to shut the hell up and act.
but enough about that
what does obama have to do with this.
he was a child when this guy was doing what he did.
Obamas association with him has nothing to do with what happened 40 years ago.
I have yet to be able to read through one of your posts without getting a headache.
How fucking lazy does one have to be to think it is too much work to hit the fucking SHIFT key, or punctuate?
[/quote]
even if you did read them you would still think what you want to think and try to persuade everyone else to think the same,so really it does not mater much
you know damn well what I said in my posts and you just want something else to make fun of to be big and bad all knowing Rainjack.
and to think,at one time I respected you and your veiws.
only to find out I was respecting a closed minded right wing radical that is no different than the leftists that he bashes.
[quote]Nich wrote:
<<< criminal,sure he is,but he has also done alot of good with education he wasnt killing and hurting people for the sake of doing it. >>>[/quote]
And we wonder how guys like Ayers wind up in our schools.
This is truly breathtaking intellectualism.
Strong Words:
“Yes, every man has a motive”
Columbo
Hell, Ayers wasn’t blowin shit up for the sake of doing it. He had a message.
Maybe we need to start thinning our heard in this country.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Nich wrote:
<<< criminal,sure he is,but he has also done alot of good with education he wasnt killing and hurting people for the sake of doing it. >>>
And we wonder how guys like Ayers wind up in our schools.
This is truly breathtaking intellectualism.
Strong Words:
“Yes, every man has a motive”
Columbo
Hell, Ayers wasn’t blowin shit up for the sake of doing it. He had a message.
Maybe we need to start thinning our heard in this country.[/quote]
let me explain.
I do see it WRONG to blow stuff up to get a point across.
there are other ways to go about things.
But I also see it wrong to blindly follow into ideals that everyone else has because they must be correct or other people would not think that way.
I don’t really look at the action,the action itself was horrible.
Instead I see a man that backed his mouth up,and didn’t just talk the game.
I also see that after the fact,he got inside and started doing good for the educational system,and he is a Distinguished Professor.
My point wasnt the point of blowing things up,my point was the old saying “actions speak louder than words”
They were very irrational and dangerous actions and were flat out wrong.
But it is a fact that more people in this country need to stop talking about it and get out and get stuff done.
All we do is bitch and moan about how bad things are,yet we sit back and allow them to happen and debate why after.
Maybe government officials need to associate themselves with more people that act instead of talk.
Maybe they themselves need to do less talking as well.
guilt by association is the dumbest thing yet to come out of this political campaign. The McCain camp is signalling out Obama for his association with Ayers, even though some heavy hitting Republicans have much deeper ties.
Can we claim that Palin hates American because of her and her husband’s ties to the Alaskan Independence Party?
Guess who said this:
“The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won’t be buried under their damn flag”
If you said Joe Vogler, founder of the AIP, you deserve a prize.
To push the issue further, please tell me how senators that worked with such notable racists as Strom Thurmond are not in of themselves complicit to racism. They spent years in the Senate working side by side with a man who ran for President on segregationist principles.
Maybe the McCain camp needs to stop grasping onto every worthless piece of slander they can get their hands on while declaring themselves clean of any wrongdoing.
[quote]Nich wrote:
even if you did read them you would still think what you want to think and try to persuade everyone else to think the same,so really it does not mater much[/quote]
I was wondering what excuse you had for being lazy - I had no idea you would find a way to blame me for your laziness.
No - I don’t know what you read. I don’t waste my time with people who refuse to make an effort to write properly.
I am big and bad without posting here. Ask around. My teenaged dughter informed me just this last weekend that the boys in highschool are scared shitless of me, and have given me the label of Hercules.
[quote]and to think,at one time I respected you and your veiws.
only to find out I was respecting a closed minded right wing radical that is no different than the leftists that he bashes.
[/quote]
If you were ever confused about my beliefs, or my position on just about any issue - that would be your fault, not mine. I am the same douche-bag, hateful, bullying, opinionated, son of a bitch I have always been.
If you don’t respect me - fine. This is a political forum on the internet. I didn’t know that respect was an essential part of survival.
Honestly, Republicans should just back off. Then, if a Republican Candidate in the future is found to have associated with far-right domestic terrorists, to have attended the church of racist, conspiracy spouting, far-right pastor (for 20 years), the liberals on this board will return the favor and not worry over it.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Nich wrote:
even if you did read them you would still think what you want to think and try to persuade everyone else to think the same,so really it does not mater much
I was wondering what excuse you had for being lazy - I had no idea you would find a way to blame me for your laziness.
you know damn well what I said in my posts and you just want something else to make fun of to be big and bad all knowing Rainjack.
No - I don’t know what you read. I don’t waste my time with people who refuse to make an effort to write properly.
[/quote]
I will not go rounds with you,reason is you can rip me apart because I admit my written communication skills are very poor,it has nothing to do with lazyness.
it has to do with ignorance,and that is my fault.
I spent more time learning how to turn a wrench and throw a shovel and work for a living rather than learning how to communicate in text.
IME a strong back was alot better than knowing how to say fancy words,but I am trying really hard because as I get older I need to learn how to use my head more as my back starts to let me down.
How you got I was blaming you I have no idea but it is not your fault it is my own.
and you admited that you don’t mess with reading posts from people that dont write them properly,which I dont blame you.
and respect isnt needed for survival. it was just something I pointed out
and it is the hatefullness,bullying,opinonated aspect that I respect about you,your attitude mirrors what I have been around and known and there is nothing wrong with being you but it is your closed mindedness and unyeilding desire to be right no mater what,even if you are toatally wrong that I was talking about that and the childish belittling of people you dont agree with.
kind of just pissed me off that,without trying to understand my post you flipped it to where I was lazy,and at the same time pointed out my ignorance and made me feel like a backwoods,slackjawed moron. which is far from the case and an image I am trying desperatly to change.
Not that I wont use the shift key or put a peoriod to make things eaiser to read.
it is that I really don’t know where to use the shift key and when to add that little dot.
and no I’m not arguing with you or fighting with you
hell I dont dissagree with you on everything,some I dissagree with but alot I agree with you on.
Headhunter lets really get the conversation going and get everyone involved.
McCain was involved in Keating-5. Look it up.
LOL @ Rainjack bragging about being a badass because he scares schoolboys.
News on this relationship will get worse before it gets better, because it isn’t “guilt by association” - it is “guilt by alliance”. Obama actively participated in the Annenburg project with a man whose lone goal for education is to teach youth how to rise up and throw off capitalism. It wasn’t a case of him getting an unwelcome endorsement.
[quote]Nich wrote:
<<< I don’t really look at the action,the action itself was horrible.
Instead I see a man that backed his mouth up,and didn’t just talk the game.
I also see that after the fact,he got inside and started doing good for the educational system,and he is a Distinguished Professor. >>>[/quote]
My respect for you was elevated a couple notches because if nothing else you were honest with Rainjack and not being the worlds greatest communicator doesn’t make you a bad guy. People have different strengths and you can’t knock somebody who uses theirs and recognizes their shortcomings at the same time.
Now having said all that, please take the time to check. Ayers was not pushing “education”. He was peddling radical left wing activism disguised as education.
If he were trying to teach disadvantaged children to read write and do math that would be one thing, but what he was doing was indocrinating new America hating whack jobs like himself.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Nich wrote:
<<< I don’t really look at the action,the action itself was horrible.
Instead I see a man that backed his mouth up,and didn’t just talk the game.
I also see that after the fact,he got inside and started doing good for the educational system,and he is a Distinguished Professor. >>>
My respect for you was elevated a couple notches because if nothing else you were honest with Rainjack and not being the worlds greatest communicator doesn’t make you a bad guy. People have different strengths and you can’t knock somebody who uses theirs and recognizes their shortcomings at the same time.
Now having said all that, please take the time to check. Ayers was not pushing “education”. He was peddling radical left wing activism disguised as education.
If he were trying to teach disadvantaged children to read write and do math that would be one thing, but what he was doing was indocrinating new America hating whack jobs like himself. [/quote]
see,I only know about the guy from wiki.
how I seen it was he wanted to make a dfference,and he is for education reform. he went about it all wrong like alot of demonstrators did in that era.
yes he was a radical yes.
but still even if this guy is a whack job,thats fine.
I dont see how Obama being in ties with him on education reform and some other issues,makes obama himself a better or worse candidate for pres.
[quote]Nich wrote:
<<< yes he was a radical yes. >>>
[/quote]
No, he IS a radical to this day and has no regret for his actions other than not being able to do more violence to this country.
Barack Obama’s first day as a politician happened in this man’s house. Obama handled millions of public dollars for him. He served on the boards of the same organizations as Ayers. William Ayers is not a teacher in the way you’re thinking of that word. He is a trainer of activists trafficking in the very same ideology he has always held and if it were Mccain or any other non Democrat the media would be on a frothing foaming mission to destroy him and rightly so.
This guy has a magic bubble surrounding him that inoculates him against criticism for associations that would get other men publicly crucified.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Nich wrote:
<<< yes he was a radical yes. >>>
No, he IS a radical to this day and has no regret for his actions other than not being able to do more violence to this country.
Barack Obama’s first day as a politician happened in this man’s house. Obama handled millions of public dollars for him. He served on the boards of the same organizations as Ayers. William Ayers is not a teacher in the way you’re thinking of that word. He is a trainer of activists trafficking in the very same ideology he has always held and if it were Mccain or any other non Democrat the media would be on a frothing foaming mission to destroy him and rightly so.
This guy has a magic bubble surrounding him that inoculates him against criticism for associations that would get other men publicly crucified.[/quote]
fair enough.
I really don’t like either one enough to vote for to be honest.
I do like some things each one has to say,and I do not like some things that each one has to say.
and ya I do see BHO getting away with things that he should not like you say.
the question really I have is why?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Nich wrote:
<<< yes he was a radical yes. >>>
No, he IS a radical to this day and has no regret for his actions other than not being able to do more violence to this country.
Barack Obama’s first day as a politician happened in this man’s house. Obama handled millions of public dollars for him. He served on the boards of the same organizations as Ayers. William Ayers is not a teacher in the way you’re thinking of that word. He is a trainer of activists trafficking in the very same ideology he has always held and if it were Mccain or any other non Democrat the media would be on a frothing foaming mission to destroy him and rightly so.
This guy has a magic bubble surrounding him that inoculates him against criticism for associations that would get other men publicly crucified.[/quote]
Tribulus, I respect your ability to have a conversation with out getting worked up…
But, Obama saw that the Annenberg project wasn’t producing results for his city. He stopped the program and started a new one, the Wood project. From what I’ve seen of Ayers past he’s far from anyone I personally would want to be associated with, he understands that Obama no longer wants to have anything to do with him. However, recently Ayers hasn’t been the crazy radical who’s ready to start war with the US.
But how is this guilt by association any different from
which you could say was the first of many to come… (ruined peoples pensions and lives)
And give me a fucking break Trib did it really take us 7 years to fire Millen. FUCK