[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I believe this discussion has gone in the ditch , people getting disgusted and opposing policies that would benefit America all for arguments sake [/quote]
They would not benefit America and I’m not just playing devil’s advocate.[/quote]
You may not be playing Devils Advocate but you are misstating your point. To state it correctly
IN YOU OPINION those policies would do America no good. Now out of curiosity , how would picking up a huge industry with high paying jobs , not be good for America ? [/quote]
I thought I already stated that lower prices for all steel products increase the standard of living for Americans as a whole. You don’t have a firm grasp on economics.
You’re letting the liberal in you feel bad for those steel workers who are put out of work because their unions demanded higher wages than what they were worth. Don’t get me wrong, I feel bad for those workers as well. However, we can’t let emotions direct economic policy when it’s clear that protectionist policies decrease the standard of living for Americans as a whole.
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Not if rather than spending $1 in America you spend $.99 in China . It is Anti American to expect them to compete with some one that makes pennies a day
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Do you want to keep talking in circles? I already explained what they need to do if they can’t compete.
Open competition causes prices to be as low as possible because the only companies that survive are the companies that do things most efficiently. Unions killed America’s steel industry because paying high wages for unskilled labor is NOT efficient.[/quote]
I am not talking circles you are stating your position like it is undisputed fact and it is not. I understand open competition causes prices to be low .[/quote]
If you understand this, than you shouldn’t have any problems grasping why open competition of the steel industry lowered the price of steel. But I digress…
[quote]Hundreds of Thousands of High paying Jobs that paid taxes in a higher than normal tax bracket.
Now these areas have very high unemployment , a lot of people on welfare , high crime , high percentage of substance abuse issues.All on the tax payers dime. That is what your cheap steel cost.
For that price what did America get , did the price of an automobile go down ? Did refrigerators get cheaper ? I can not think of a business that is a bigger user of steel by percentage of finished product than Caterpillar . Did their stock value go up ? did their product prices go down ? Did they even manage to buy any of that cheaper steel you brag about?
I am asking specifically where this up side was ? I can give you thousands of examples BEING SPECIFIC .Usually these threads are defended by vague assertions of innuendo .
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Hmm, being specific. That’s a good question. Here is an excerpt from Thomas Sowell’s Basic Economics (which I thank you for making me dig up, I haven’t read it in about a year and should probably read it again):
[quote]
At any given time, a protective tariff or other import restriction may provide immediate relief to a particular industry and thus gain the political and financial support of corporations and labor unions in that industry. But, like many political benefits, it comes at the expense of others who may not be as organized, as visible, or as vocal. When the number of jobs in the American steel industry was cut from 340k to 125k during the decade of the 1980s, that had a devastating impact and was big economic and political news. It also led to a variety of laws and regulations designed to reduce the amount of steel imported into the country to compete with domestically produced steel. Of course, this reduction in suppy led to higher steel prices within the United States and therefore higher costs for all other American industries that were manufacturing products made of steel, which range from automobiles to oil riggs.
All these products were now at a disadvantage in competing with similar foreign made products, both within the US and in international markets. It has been estimated that the steel tariffs produced $240 million in additional profits to the steel companies and saved 5k jobs in the steel industry. At the same time, those American industries that manufacture products made from this artificially more expensive steel have lost an estimated $600 million in profits and 26k jobs as a result of the steel tariffs. In other words, both American industry and American workers as a whole were worse off, on net balance, as a result of the import restrictions on steel.[/quote]
These figures come from the book The Structure of American History.
Sorry not all sources can be online, but maybe if you read a couple of these books you’ll have a better understanding. 