NYC to Ban Infant Formula

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
encouraging-but-not-forcing parents to make a healthier choice for said infants.

[/quote]

lol, exactly. [/quote]

The government also encourages-but-doesn’t-force you to eat 400lbs of grains everyday. And you all will be the first to bitch about that.

SMH…

The government shouldn’t have a god damn thing in the world to say about it, period. They have zero, zilch, nada business involved in that aspect of a normal person’s life. (With the possible selection of the FDA testing the formula to make sure it isn’t ground up car bumpers.)

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
As far as free samples at hospitals, that is indeed an f’d up situation. When i was with my niece and nephew when they were still in the hospital, one nurse pushed the formula like she got a cut of the profits. A different one cautiously asked if my sister wanted some breastfeeding literature. That is a little skewed, imho. I dont know if this is a kneejerk reaction (which are NEVER good) to that being the norm in hospitals or not. [/quote]

This is the exact opposite of when I had my child, and my two buddies kids, all 3 at different area hospitals.

Stop making up bullshit.

The nurse asked what you planned to do, and acted accordingly. In fact when you breast feed they bring in extra people to help you with it. And our hospital requested you bring you own formula if you were choosing to go that route, as the free shit was “in case” in that instance.

It is behind the counter and locked up because like everything that is locked up in a store, it gets stolen a lot.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

the voice of reason
[/quote]

Why am I not surprised you support a thinly veiled guilt trip, surrounded by made up “facts” and lack of personal experience?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
I want to say that I’m pro-nursing, however, I’m pro-make-your-own-choices long before that. It’s nobody’s business - not a nurse, not a doctor, not the government - to make that decision for parents. It really irks me that these mothers that have just given birth have to sit there and be made feel terrible and lectured for their supposedly horrible choices.

My problem with it, Jehovasfitness, is that it would be MY choice as a parent to choose what method to feed my child that I deem fit. Formula is available for OTC sales and I do not feel that I should have restricted access to it. You know how shit hits the fan when they try to make supplements less available or take them away from the general public. In principal, I don’t think this is any different. It’s really deplorable that this has even been considered.[/quote]

Again, it would still be available, just not offered for “free” when you know free samples aren’t there out of the kindness of a business’ heart.

That said, hence my screenname, why would someone knowingly feed their kid formula if A. the mother is able to breastfeed B. and has the “time” (I use that term loosely) to do so
[/quote]

This explains my sentiments a bit.[/quote]

[quote]And now, the man you trusted to guard your pseudo-freedom in New York City has decided to dictate to new mothers how they will feed their own babies. Starting September 3, Mayor Bloomberg will enforce what is being called �?�¢??the most restrictive pro-breast-milk program in the nation�?�¢?? which requires formula to be locked up and rationed out only if medical professionals can submit a medical reason for needing it. If the mother gets the formula from the state, she also gets a lecture. Why? It seems the people in power don�?�¢??t really think women can make good choices for themselves or their children, especially the women who give birth.

Sure some of you will support this anti-choice program and justify it based on some feigned concern for the health of newborn babies. Some of you will speak out against it because you see it for the over-imposition of government into private lives that it is. However, I predict that not a single one of you will see the monumental contradiction before you once again.

Like happy and willing slaves, you conceded all your rights to the decisions of the people in power, and now they are dictating that those in charge do what you�?�¢??ve been fighting against your whole lives �?�¢?? force a woman to let her child use her body. You may justify it as some caring act on the part of the government, but that�?�¢??s nonsense. Governments don�?�¢??t care for people; people care for people, and you�?�¢??ve been advocating for generations that the most extreme bond between the have�?�¢??s and the have not�?�¢??s �?�¢?? the bond between mothers and their children �?�¢?? is meaningless unless the individual mother chooses to care for the greedy little thing.

Some people are calling your Mayor Bloomberg a nanny for turning NYC into a nanny-state, but at least nannies care for individual children. I hate to break it to you, Pro-Choice NYer, but you aren�?�¢??t a child and Mayor Bloomberg and his officials don�?�¢??t care for you (or the children you decide are worthy of life) individually. This isn�?�¢??t about caring; it�?�¢??s about control. It�?�¢??s Marxism.

This is social materialism, utilitarian ideology about the worth of a human person in the big chemical equation of society. Feeding people taxes the system, just as pregnancy taxes a woman�?�¢??s body. If it were about caring for the babies, there wouldn�?�¢??t also exist a law that allowed late-term abortion past the point of viability. There wouldn�?�¢??t be a law allowing any unborn child to be killed. The same child the state says must be breastfed for it�?�¢??s health could have been killed the trimester, the month, the week, the day, and the minute before birth with impunity. Wake up! The same people are also busy telling you what you can and cannot eat or drink. They don�?�¢??t really think you can be trusted to chose wisely for yourself; they see you as objects to be managed.[/quote][/quote]

Can you show me somewhere, in the press release or otherwise, where it says women will forced to breastfeed against their will? As I’ve posted before, I can find no such wording that even suggests that. All it says is that breastfeeding babies will not be SUPPLEMENTED with formula.
[/quote]

Please show me where I or anything I posted says that someone is going to force someone to do something against their will?

It says a lot more than, “breastfeeding babies will not be SUPPLEMENTED with formula.”[/quote]

So you decided to partially quote the article you previously linked to, then asked me to show where is says anything about force, when the first line in your quote says just as much. “Dictate” being the operative word here. You know good and well what that line suggests. Don’t play dumb. By posting that article, and then saying it explains your sentiments, well you see where that’s going.

So, I did what you asked, even though you had already done it yourself. Good job. Again there is nothing in the official press release about forcing, dictating, or otherwise, women to do something they don’t want to do. Unless you like to point it out, like I asked previously.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

the voice of reason
[/quote]

Why am I not surprised you support a thinly veiled guilt trip, surrounded by made up “facts” and lack of personal experience?[/quote]

I was mainly on board with his first paragraph, the rest was nice too

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
encouraging-but-not-forcing parents to make a healthier choice for said infants.

[/quote]

lol, exactly. [/quote]

The government also encourages-but-doesn’t-force you to eat 400lbs of grains everyday. And you all will be the first to bitch about that.

SMH…

The government shouldn’t have a god damn thing in the world to say about it, period. They have zero, zilch, nada business involved in that aspect of a normal person’s life. (With the possible selection of the FDA testing the formula to make sure it isn’t ground up car bumpers.)[/quote]

I tend to agree with what you’ve said here. And I don’t want you to consider this next part an apples to apples analogy. Does anyone here have a problem with government telling women that smoking and drinking during pregnancy is bad? Yes, I understand completely that formula isn’t bad in the least for babies. I’ve given it to mine after a period of breastfeeding.

Do we all agree that breast milk is better than formula though? Why then is it not OK to promote it? We don’t have a problem telling women they shouldn’t smoke or drink? Even then, it’s not ILLEGAL. We can’t force a woman to abstain from that if they don’t want to and there’s plenty of propaganda for it.

Going by what you’ve said, government shouldn’t even be warning us of the risks of smoking and drinking during pregnancy.

Again, I understand it’s not the same thing, but it is government getting involved in an aspect of a normal person’s life.

Have your kid delivered at home if these new rules bother you so much.

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
encouraging-but-not-forcing parents to make a healthier choice for said infants.

[/quote]

lol, exactly. [/quote]

The government also encourages-but-doesn’t-force you to eat 400lbs of grains everyday. And you all will be the first to bitch about that.

SMH…

The government shouldn’t have a god damn thing in the world to say about it, period. They have zero, zilch, nada business involved in that aspect of a normal person’s life. (With the possible selection of the FDA testing the formula to make sure it isn’t ground up car bumpers.)[/quote]

I tend to agree with what you’ve said here. And I don’t want you to consider this next part an apples to apples analogy. Does anyone here have a problem with government telling women that smoking and drinking during pregnancy is bad? Yes, I understand completely that formula isn’t bad in the least for babies. I’ve given it to mine after a period of breastfeeding.

Do we all agree that breast milk is better than formula though? Why then is it not OK to promote it? We don’t have a problem telling women they shouldn’t smoke or drink? Even then, it’s not ILLEGAL. We can’t force a woman to abstain from that if they don’t want to and there’s plenty of propaganda for it.

Going by what you’ve said, government shouldn’t even be warning us of the risks of smoking and drinking during pregnancy.

Again, I understand it’s not the same thing, but it is government getting involved in an aspect of a normal person’s life.[/quote]

Because when it comes to food, people get their panties in a bunch. They accept things like alcohol and tobacco are harmful, but they don’t think manufactured food is unhealthy, or at least inferior.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
encouraging-but-not-forcing parents to make a healthier choice for said infants.

[/quote]

lol, exactly. [/quote]

The government also encourages-but-doesn’t-force you to eat 400lbs of grains everyday. And you all will be the first to bitch about that.

SMH…

The government shouldn’t have a god damn thing in the world to say about it, period. They have zero, zilch, nada business involved in that aspect of a normal person’s life. (With the possible selection of the FDA testing the formula to make sure it isn’t ground up car bumpers.)[/quote]

I tend to agree with what you’ve said here. And I don’t want you to consider this next part an apples to apples analogy. Does anyone here have a problem with government telling women that smoking and drinking during pregnancy is bad? Yes, I understand completely that formula isn’t bad in the least for babies. I’ve given it to mine after a period of breastfeeding.

Do we all agree that breast milk is better than formula though? Why then is it not OK to promote it? We don’t have a problem telling women they shouldn’t smoke or drink? Even then, it’s not ILLEGAL. We can’t force a woman to abstain from that if they don’t want to and there’s plenty of propaganda for it.

Going by what you’ve said, government shouldn’t even be warning us of the risks of smoking and drinking during pregnancy.

Again, I understand it’s not the same thing, but it is government getting involved in an aspect of a normal person’s life.[/quote]

Because when it comes to food, people get their panties in a bunch. They accept things like alcohol and tobacco are harmful, but they don’t think manufactured food is unhealthy, or at least inferior.
[/quote]

For the record, I don’t think formula is unhealthy. It’s not really the issue here. It’s the notion that government is supposedly making women do something they don’t want to do, or invading in their lives. Which was something the article you posted alluded to. You should have posted the actual press release. People have been reading opinion pieces with language not contained in the actual release and making judgements based off that language.

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
encouraging-but-not-forcing parents to make a healthier choice for said infants.

[/quote]

lol, exactly. [/quote]

The government also encourages-but-doesn’t-force you to eat 400lbs of grains everyday. And you all will be the first to bitch about that.

SMH…

The government shouldn’t have a god damn thing in the world to say about it, period. They have zero, zilch, nada business involved in that aspect of a normal person’s life. (With the possible selection of the FDA testing the formula to make sure it isn’t ground up car bumpers.)[/quote]

I tend to agree with what you’ve said here. And I don’t want you to consider this next part an apples to apples analogy. Does anyone here have a problem with government telling women that smoking and drinking during pregnancy is bad? Yes, I understand completely that formula isn’t bad in the least for babies. I’ve given it to mine after a period of breastfeeding.

Do we all agree that breast milk is better than formula though? Why then is it not OK to promote it? We don’t have a problem telling women they shouldn’t smoke or drink? Even then, it’s not ILLEGAL. We can’t force a woman to abstain from that if they don’t want to and there’s plenty of propaganda for it.

Going by what you’ve said, government shouldn’t even be warning us of the risks of smoking and drinking during pregnancy.

Again, I understand it’s not the same thing, but it is government getting involved in an aspect of a normal person’s life.[/quote]

Because when it comes to food, people get their panties in a bunch. They accept things like alcohol and tobacco are harmful, but they don’t think manufactured food is unhealthy, or at least inferior.
[/quote]

For the record, I don’t think formula is unhealthy. It’s not really the issue here. It’s the notion that government is supposedly making women do something they don’t want to do, or invading in their lives. Which was something the article you posted alluded to. You should have posted the actual press release. People have been reading opinion pieces with language not contained in the actual release and making judgements based off that language.

[/quote]

Perhaps poor wording on my part, though some formulas probably are unhealthy (soy based ones)…

[quote]cueball wrote:
We can’t force a woman to abstain from that if they don’t want to and there’s plenty of propaganda for it.

Going by what you’ve said, government shouldn’t even be warning us of the risks of smoking and drinking during pregnancy.

Again, I understand it’s not the same thing, but it is government getting involved in an aspect of a normal person’s life.[/quote]

Individual rights and responcibilities should never, repeat never, take a back seat to the collective. The government isn’t and never was your friend. Even the people that made our government understood this, why do you think the second amendment is there and #2 only behind the other amendment that keeps government in check?

The breast feeding cult are some of the most ruthless and souless, vile human beings on the planet. They use scare and guilt tactics to sway an otherwise normal person into what the collective feels is the right thing to do. They take something that is good for the baby, and is a good choice and turn it into some guilt trip that makes what shoudl be one of the most beautiful times in a woman’s life into a chore and pass/fail of life event.

Not all the advocates are like this, no. And some of the people we spoke with were very understanding, but many, many were not.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

Because when it comes to food, people get their panties in a bunch. They accept things like alcohol and tobacco are harmful, but they don’t think manufactured food is unhealthy, or at least inferior.
[/quote]

Hey, remember that time a couple weeks ago when you woke up at 3am to your wife and daughter both crying. Your daughter crying because she is hungry and can’t latch. You wife crying because both her nipples were cracked, bleeding, and so sore that the wind from a fan sent winsing pain down her spine?

Oh that’s right, you haven’t the slightest clue what that is like. You just “know” formula is inferior.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

Perhaps poor wording on my part, though some formulas probably are unhealthy (soy based ones)…

[/quote]

Remember how awful it is to watch your daughter with acid relfux and lactose issues cry in pain from eating? Even after you tried 4 different formulas, including the prescription one that costs unreal amounts of money? Only to find out that soy formula is the only food she can tolerate without being in constant pain?

Oh that is right, you still don’t know what you are talking about. Soy based is probably unhealthy.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

Because when it comes to food, people get their panties in a bunch. They accept things like alcohol and tobacco are harmful, but they don’t think manufactured food is unhealthy, or at least inferior.
[/quote]

Hey, remember that time a couple weeks ago when you woke up at 3am to your wife and daughter both crying. Your daughter crying because she is hungry and can’t latch. You wife crying because both her nipples were cracked, bleeding, and so sore that the wind from a fan sent winsing pain down her spine?

Oh that’s right, you haven’t the slightest clue what that is like. You just “know” formula is inferior.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

Perhaps poor wording on my part, though some formulas probably are unhealthy (soy based ones)…

[/quote]

Remember how awful it is to watch your daughter with acid relfux and lactose issues cry in pain from eating? Even after you tried 4 different formulas, including the prescription one that costs unreal amounts of money? Only to find out that soy formula is the only food she can tolerate without being in constant pain?

Oh that is right, you still don’t know what you are talking about. Soy based is probably unhealthy.[/quote]

Just because breast milk is nutritionally superior, does not mean that using formula in morally inferior. It obviously serves a purpose in certain circumstances. Nobody in this thread is implying otherwise. But that doesn’t change the fact that parents should be making informed decisions, either way.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
The government also encourages-but-doesn’t-force you to eat 400lbs of grains everyday. And you all will be the first to bitch about that.

SMH…

The government shouldn’t have a god damn thing in the world to say about it, period. They have zero, zilch, nada business involved in that aspect of a normal person’s life. (With the possible selection of the FDA testing the formula to make sure it isn’t ground up car bumpers.)[/quote]

The former is clearly due to the subsidization of a crop. I would say this warrants bitching and renders it a poor comparison.

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
The government also encourages-but-doesn’t-force you to eat 400lbs of grains everyday. And you all will be the first to bitch about that.

SMH…

The government shouldn’t have a god damn thing in the world to say about it, period. They have zero, zilch, nada business involved in that aspect of a normal person’s life. (With the possible selection of the FDA testing the formula to make sure it isn’t ground up car bumpers.)[/quote]

The former is clearly due to the subsidization of a crop. I would say this warrants bitching and renders it a poor comparison.[/quote]

Poor comparison? How about they are the same fucking thing, and one aligns with what you want to believe so you are okay with it.

Drawing lines in the sand as to what is right and wrong is how we end up in the mess we are in.

Before I address your other post, how many kids do you have?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:
We can’t force a woman to abstain from that if they don’t want to and there’s plenty of propaganda for it.

Going by what you’ve said, government shouldn’t even be warning us of the risks of smoking and drinking during pregnancy.

Again, I understand it’s not the same thing, but it is government getting involved in an aspect of a normal person’s life.[/quote]

Individual rights and responcibilities should never, repeat never, take a back seat to the collective. The government isn’t and never was your friend. Even the people that made our government understood this, why do you think the second amendment is there and #2 only behind the other amendment that keeps government in check?

The breast feeding cult are some of the most ruthless and souless, vile human beings on the planet. They use scare and guilt tactics to sway an otherwise normal person into what the collective feels is the right thing to do. They take something that is good for the baby, and is a good choice and turn it into some guilt trip that makes what shoudl be one of the most beautiful times in a woman’s life into a chore and pass/fail of life event.

Not all the advocates are like this, no. And some of the people we spoke with were very understanding, but many, many were not. [/quote]

Understood. I totally agree that those groups can be ridiculous. A lot of it is just to push what THEY think others should do. But at this point we aren’t just talking about government intrusion, we’re talking about groups of citizens pushing THEIR agenda. I’m not sure that NYC is really a part of that cult, though. You can be for something, agree something may be better, and not be part of the nutcase fringe.

I just don’t see anything imposing in regards to this. Now if I were to have a baby delivered in NYC and my wife was subjected to pressure if she chose to use formula, then I would have a problem with it. The only thing out there is people writing articles portraying this whole thing as health by force.

Will there always be people up in arms about what YOU should be doing because THEY think you should? Yes. Can you completely avoid this? No. Does it suck you have to put up with it? Yes. I don’t think we’ll ever be able to avoid the nutcase fringe.

All we’ve seen so far is the removal of free samples and a greater degree of regulation on a hospital supply. Which, if I’ve read your posts correctly, you don’t really have a problem with. Everything else has been people’s speculation about control.

[quote]cueball wrote:

All we’ve seen so far is the removal of free samples and a greater degree of regulation on a hospital supply. Which, if I’ve read your posts correctly, you don’t really have a problem with.

[/quote]

In theory, no those things are perfectly fine, I would just prefer the hospital did it under their own volition, and the government had zero regulation related to it. (Note that in above I’m assuming hopital self imposed regulation of their own supplies.)

Perfect example of my uproar on this issue is Agenda 21. Here we have a program about “saving the environment”. What normal sane person wouldn’t be for that right? Well wrong. Look at what this Agenda is trying to truly accomplish under the veil of helping people and the Earth and you’ll be just as upset about every other “baby step” towards government control of your person as I am.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

All we’ve seen so far is the removal of free samples and a greater degree of regulation on a hospital supply. Which, if I’ve read your posts correctly, you don’t really have a problem with.

[/quote]

In theory, no those things are perfectly fine, I would just prefer the hospital did it under their own volition, and the government had zero regulation related to it. (Note that in above I’m assuming hopital self imposed regulation of their own supplies.)

Perfect example of my uproar on this issue is Agenda 21. Here we have a program about “saving the environment”. What normal sane person wouldn’t be for that right? Well wrong. Look at what this Agenda is trying to truly accomplish under the veil of helping people and the Earth and you’ll be just as upset about every other “baby step” towards government control of your person as I am.[/quote]

Granted this "initiative was created by the NYC Health Department. But hospitals voluntarily joined the initiative. This may be just clever wording, I’ll admit that. But I can’t find anywhere that says there would be a penalty for not doing so.

I’m not surprised that supposed good programs have veiled agendas. However, I’m not so inclined to cry foul every time something like this comes up. Will this new initiative eventually lead to an ACTUAL ban of formula or forced breastfeeding? I kinda doubt it. Just like there is still no ban on smoking or drinking while pregnant.

[quote]cueball wrote:
Will this new initiative eventually lead to an ACTUAL ban of formula or forced breastfeeding? I kinda doubt it. Just like there is still no ban on smoking or drinking while pregnant.[/quote]

The realist in me agrees with the above.

But I would rather snuff out a forest fire when it is one smoldering ember than try and stop a 200 acre blaze.

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Have your kid delivered at home if these new rules bother you so much.

[/quote]

If this were an option to me, I would certainly have chosen that route. However, where I live, the midwives deliver in hospitals as well, just in case you require some sort of emergency surgery.

My husband also pays for 100% of any medical services that we receive (Please read as: thousands of dollars). Unless you’re a gov’t employee with a midas health plan, insurance will not pay for any pre-natal expenses or hospital stays or procedures.

So, if I’m paying out of pocket for everything that I receive then I’m sure not listening to a contrived speech designed to make me feel like shit. No member of government or special interest group is paying my bill so they don’t get to have a say. Period, end of story.