'Nuke, nuke Israel!'

jsbrook · January 2, 2009, 6:33pm

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:
That you suffer from paranoid delusions?

You’re welcome.

This is starting to resemble my recent conversations with GL. Why don’t you start calling me a racist, too? That’ll fix me.

I don’t know who GL is, but why don’t you start calling me anti-semetic? I’ve already seen you drop it numerous times the past week. Obviously disagreeing with Israel’s policy or actions equates into a deep rooted hatred and prejudice towards everything Jewish.[/quote]

I don’t think you’re anti-semitic. I don’t think all Muslims are either. And certainly all are not committed to the destruction of Israel or Jews. But you are inexplicably blinded to the fact that HAMAS is. And so happens that Hamas is a powerful faction of the Palestine government.

You can’t just sweep that under the rug. Not that their conduct would be much less reprehensible even if this wasn’t the end goal.

Terrace_Lad · January 3, 2009, 10:01am

PrCalDude, here are some other ethnic cleansings:

“And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him…And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day…And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron.” (Book of Joshua X:34)

" In the Book of Numbers (XXXI, 7-18) we are told of the exploits of the “sons of Israel” who, when they vanquished the Madianites, “killed all the men as the Lord had ordered Moses to do”, “took all the women into bondage”, “burned all the cities.” When they returned to Moses, “Moses was wrathful. What ! he told them, you have suffered all the women to live…! Now, go forth and slay all youths, and slay all the women who have known a man in wedlock… But all the virgins…keep them for yourselves.” (14-18). "

So mutch for the Amorites…“So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left alive : and they possessed his land.” (Numbers XXI, 35)

And more…

Many fine sons of Israel were insipred by these passages, like Menahem Beghin. Some of these passages are also used in the Israeli Army. That’ s just dandy, nice inspiration.

I can’ t understand why would anybody take one or another’ s side. Too bad it’ s impossible for both sides to perish in this conflict.

phil_leotardo · January 3, 2009, 2:50pm

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

First of all, I have no love affair with Israel. I’m even willing to discuss some of the things Israel has done to us with the ‘patriot’ set around here if I could get you all to drop the moral equivalence b/w Israeli Jews and Arabs and at least show up on some of the threads to express a little moral outrage against Islamic jihad.

Instead, all we get from the ‘patriot’ crowd is more whining about central banking, gold, the Patriot Act, AIPAC, and moral equivalences between religions. The rest of us non-patriots are expected to believe that if we just dropped religion, central banking, and threw Israel under the bus, everything would be great and all the unpleasantness with the Islamic world would just blow over.[/quote]

We throw hmm… what is it? 6 billion dollars at Israel on an annual basis and here are some examples of how our great “ally” repay us:

Selling US military secrets to the Chinese:

Spying on the US:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/motherofallscandals.html

They even killed Americans in 1967:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/04/23/liberty.attack/

This is not to mention that the Arabs obviously have a vital resource to the American economy and the Jews don’t.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Secondly, this whole load of crap about the Old Testament being plagiarized is exactly that: a load of crap. It’s been answered by so many Christian scholars it’s not even worth discussing with you. None of your types ever bother to read any our rebuttals, so I can discuss this with you until I’m blue in the face and make no progress.[/quote]

As opposed to “you types”? Actually I read the Tanakh myself and decided that most of it sounded completely unbelievable in a literal sense. So even if it was original fiction, I wouldn’t believe it anymore than I would the Koran. There are so many stories in the Old Testament that are completely ridiculous…
And even if they are true, the ancient Jews would be considered war criminals, thieves, liars and mass murderers and rapists at that by today’s standards.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

And I’m sure Voltaire had no small part to play in sapping the civilizational marrow from France and other European countries who bought into his ethic of self-congratulation, narcissism, and selfishness. [/quote]

Could you back this up from any of his works? I have read them all and seen him preach no such thing. If anything, he helped spawn the Enlightenment which helped Europeans break the yoke of Christian dark ages which pushed back human knowledge to pre-Greco-Roman levels.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Christians have kids. The Voltaire types don’t. They’re too busy telling each other how smart they are rather than sacrificing their time, money, and energy to raise a family and carry on civilization. Look at France now. It shouldn’t be any real surprise why it’s in demographic meltdown vs. the savages it’s imported from north Africa. France even provides enormous subsidies to couples who have kids, and it still has had no effect amongst the French population. Same thing in Germany. [/quote]

Not having kids is not an ideal, but there is nothing wrong with a population shrinkage and no logical reason why they have to import immigrants there; if they wanted to they could find a way to survive with even a smaller tax base.

The real reason why they import immigrants there is because they embrace the American ideology of multiculturalism. The 1965 Immigration Act was specifically anti-European immigrant in nature and Western Europeans seemed to follow us.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
And as far as the ‘civilized’ peoples the 12 tribes of Israel ethnically cleansed from Canaan are concerned: I don’t find burning your newborns alive on statues of Molech and other detestable Canaanite practicess to be too civilized. Call me crazy. You know your ancient Near Eastern history, don’t you?
[/quote]

Actually I have read the whole Old Testament and like another poster pointed out, it is full of ethnic cleansing against many peoples. Do you find this justifiable? If so, it speaks volumes about you.

phil_leotardo · January 3, 2009, 2:58pm

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

Not all of Europe is liberal. Their politics and politicians span a broad spectrum.
If (extremist) Muslism actuallly ‘took over’ Europe, the effect would go well beyond the gays. No one in Europe would have much of a future there. [/quote]

I never said otherwise, but clearly liberals are in charge and “asylum seekers” continue to flood Europe and many of them are Muslims. Plus many native Europeans are converting to Islam. If Muslims take over there, I see no reason why Europe will not turn into a shithole like every other Muslim country is. I mean, why the hell do you think so many of them try to leave their countries in the first place?
This is true, but the gays would be the first to go. Atheists and pagans for that matter are also more frowned upon in the Koran than even Christians or even Jews are for that matter so they might be next on the beheading list. They just might be taxed into submission into Allah.

jsbrook · January 3, 2009, 4:08pm

[quote]Terrace Lad wrote:
PrCalDude, here are some other ethnic cleansings:

“And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him…And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day…And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron.” (Book of Joshua X:34)

" In the Book of Numbers (XXXI, 7-18) we are told of the exploits of the “sons of Israel” who, when they vanquished the Madianites, “killed all the men as the Lord had ordered Moses to do”, “took all the women into bondage”, “burned all the cities.” When they returned to Moses, “Moses was wrathful. What ! he told them, you have suffered all the women to live…! Now, go forth and slay all youths, and slay all the women who have known a man in wedlock… But all the virgins…keep them for yourselves.” (14-18). "

So mutch for the Amorites…“So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left alive : and they possessed his land.” (Numbers XXI, 35)

And more…

Many fine sons of Israel were insipred by these passages, like Menahem Beghin. Some of these passages are also used in the Israeli Army. That’ s just dandy, nice inspiration.

I can’ t understand why would anybody take one or another’ s side. Too bad it’ s impossible for both sides to perish in this conflict.[/quote]

You have to go back 6000 YEARS to find ethnic cleansing among the Jews. Clearly they’ve evolved. Their neigbors obviously haven’t. Israel is a real government with ideologies in line with our own that is forced to deal with terrorists STILL committed to ethic cleansing. That delierately attacks Israeli citizens and deliberately puts its own citizens in the line of fire.

Also, nice choice of Menahem Beghin as an example. Beghin began his life as radical Zionist that was usually at odds with the main historical leadership. Those views never represented the views of many Israelis and certainly don’t today. Not that this didn’t prevent him from doing much good, such as signing a peace treaty with Anwar Sadat, when he ultimately came to power. This required giving up much land and a departure from his radical roots.

What the fuck don’t you understand? Israel should by no means perish. Please show me some actual proof that these passages are used in the Israeli army. You or some Hamas propaganda site saying it doesn’t make it true. I’ve known Israeli soldiers. Who do you know? Israel is committed to the destruction of terrorist organizations like Hamas. And committed to a world where rockets and mortars are not fired at their people. They are not committed to the destruction of Palestine or the entire Muslim religion.

phil_leotardo · January 3, 2009, 4:21pm

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
You have to go back 6000 YEARS to find ethnic cleansing among the Jews. Clearly they’ve evolved. Their neigbors obviously haven’t. Israel is a real government with ideologies in line with our own that is forced to deal with terrorists STILL committed to ethic cleansing. That delierately attacks Israeli citizens and deliberately puts its own citizens in the line of fire. [/quote]

The Zionist movement could have established a state for the Jews in tons of other places less controversial than Palestine. They picked Palestine because of the supposed historical claims in a book that most people have not even read to begin with that is full of contradictions to say the least…

Terrace_Lad · January 3, 2009, 6:33pm

Okay, for some more recent examples of ethnic cleansing we can look at the Deir Yassin massacre and Cana.

A large majority of Jews have proven to be the most hateful, " racist " and arrogant bunch. Their powerstructures in the US and France have proven to be extremely discusting and alarming.

The jewish state might be in line with YOUR ideology and the US’ s foreign policy ( hell, it has been ever since… ), but not mine, never mine. And luckily I am not the only one.

And it is profoundly disturbing that all those who question israeli policy or the shady deeds of different jewish organisations worldwide is immediately catalogued as an anti- semite and is considered a dangeour to society, rejecting all posibilities of reason. Thanks to liers like Elie Wiesel.

As for those passages, their appearance is shown in Garaudy’ s book, along with a rabbi’ s approving comments on them. I am not going to look it up now.

Don’ t make any connection between me and any islamist organisation, if it were up to me, both sides should perish, as long as both polarities ( Israel - Islamist organisations ) exist, peace shall never exist.

jsbrook · January 3, 2009, 7:06pm

[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
You have to go back 6000 YEARS to find ethnic cleansing among the Jews. Clearly they’ve evolved. Their neigbors obviously haven’t. Israel is a real government with ideologies in line with our own that is forced to deal with terrorists STILL committed to ethic cleansing. That delierately attacks Israeli citizens and deliberately puts its own citizens in the line of fire.

The Zionist movement could have established a state for the Jews in tons of other places less controversial than Palestine. They picked Palestine because of the supposed historical claims in a book that most people have not even read to begin with that is full of contradictions to say the least…
[/quote]

Entirely irrelevant to the issue of ethnic cleansing. Besides which, wherever the Jews may have campaigned for their state to be founded back in the 1940s, Israel is where it is because of the British Mandate of Palestine and UN backing. And the UN’s ultimate partition into of Palestine in 1947. They ultimately took what was given to them.

Even if it had not gone to Israel, there were other international efforts to keep that land in the hands of others. The Vatican, the Italian, and the French governments all continued to press their own legal claims on the land on the basis of the former Protectorate of the Holy See and the French Protectorate of Jerusalem

jsbrook · January 3, 2009, 7:19pm

[quote]Terrace Lad wrote:
Okay, for some more recent examples of ethnic cleansing we can look at the Deir Yassin massacre and Cana.

A large majority of Jews have proven to be the most hateful, " racist " and arrogant bunch. Their powerstructures in the US and France have proven to be extremely discusting and alarming.

The jewish state might be in line with YOUR ideology and the US’ s foreign policy ( hell, it has been ever since… ), but not mine, never mine. And luckily I am not the only one.

And it is profoundly disturbing that all those who question israeli policy or the shady deeds of different jewish organisations worldwide is immediately catalogued as an anti- semite and is considered a dangeour to society, rejecting all posibilities of reason. Thanks to liers like Elie Wiesel.

As for those passages, their appearance is shown in Garaudy’ s book, along with a rabbi’ s approving comments on them. I am not going to look it up now.

Don’ t make any connection between me and any islamist organisation, if it were up to me, both sides should perish, as long as both polarities ( Israel - Islamist organisations ) exist, peace shall never exist.

[/quote]

What power structures in the U.S. and France? What racism? Evidence please.

The Deir Yassin massacre was an isolated and unsanctioned incident. The Jewish Agency of Israel, the pre-state Jewish government before the establishment of Israel, condemned the Deir Yassin massacre. So did the Haganah, the Jewish paramilitary operation active at the time. And perpetrators, underground paramiliatry groups, were punished. Victims should’ve been offered compensation and weren’t. Once the Israeli government had actually been established, they should’ve apologized and didn’t.

Still a far cry from the Palestinan terrorist governments like Hamas who target civilians, purposely put their own citizens in harms way, and openly call for the obliteration of Israel and the complete destruction of the Jews as a people. The state of Israel didn’t even exist at the time, it wasn’t a government-sanctioned effort, and Jewish forces that WERE in power at the time repudiated it.

You are full of shit. And all your info clearly comes from pro-Hamas propagandist sites though you sit there and claim to be neutral.

Terrace_Lad · January 3, 2009, 7:43pm

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
The Deir Yassin massacre was an isolated and unsanctioned incident. The Jewish Agency of Israel, the pre-state Jewish government before the establishment of Israel, condemned the Deir Yassin massacre. So did the Haganah, the Jewish paramilitary operation active at the time. And perpetrators, underground paramiliatry groups, were punished. Victims should’ve been offered compensation and weren’t. Once the Israeli government had actually been established, they should’ve apologized and didn’t.

Still a far cry from the Palestinan terrorist governments like Hamas who target civilians, purposely put their own citizens in harms way, and openly call for the obliteration of Israel and the complete destruction of the Jews as a people. The state of Israel didn’t even exist at the time, it wasn’t a government-sanctioned effort, and Jewish forces that WERE in power at the time repudiated it.

You are full of shit. And all your info clearly comes from pro-Hamas propagandist sites though you sit there and claim to be neutral. [/quote]

Of course they where punished. In The Revolt: The Story of the Irgoun, Menahem Beghin states that the state of Israel would have not been established without the " victory " in Deir Yassin. Despite these claims, beghin is still regarded as a national hero an played an important role in the zionist state. Glory must be a very severe punsihment for modest and pure people like him.

One of the pillars of zionism is " jewish racial purity ". Just read and you’ ll see enough examples of " jewish superiority " . Because of their gentle nature, the zionists collaborated quite well with the NSDAP even during the war, they had very similar agendas. I hope that you are capable of surpassing your own subjective limitations.

Your last paragraph proves that you are the one who’ s " full of shit ", with your pro- Hamas propagandist sites nonsense. Never visited one, btw. You are blind and mutch more biased then I can ever be, only seeing the mud on one side of the fence.

Shalom to you to, mr. fighter for freedom and democracy. Blessed be your scar spangled banner… or is it the star of David?

jsbrook · January 3, 2009, 7:56pm

[quote]Terrace Lad wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
The Deir Yassin massacre was an isolated and unsanctioned incident. The Jewish Agency of Israel, the pre-state Jewish government before the establishment of Israel, condemned the Deir Yassin massacre. So did the Haganah, the Jewish paramilitary operation active at the time. And perpetrators, underground paramiliatry groups, were punished. Victims should’ve been offered compensation and weren’t. Once the Israeli government had actually been established, they should’ve apologized and didn’t.

Still a far cry from the Palestinan terrorist governments like Hamas who target civilians, purposely put their own citizens in harms way, and openly call for the obliteration of Israel and the complete destruction of the Jews as a people. The state of Israel didn’t even exist at the time, it wasn’t a government-sanctioned effort, and Jewish forces that WERE in power at the time repudiated it.

You are full of shit. And all your info clearly comes from pro-Hamas propagandist sites though you sit there and claim to be neutral.

Of course they where punished. In The Revolt: The Story of the Irgoun, Menahem Beghin states that the state of Israel would have not been established without the " victory " in Deir Yassin. Despite these claims, beghin is still regarded as a national hero an played an important role in the zionist state. Glory must be a very severe punsihment for modest and pure people like him.

One of the pillars of zionism is " jewish racial purity ". Just read and you’ ll see enough examples of " jewish superiority " . I hope that you are capable of surpassing your own subjective limitations.

Your last paragraph proves that you are the one who’ s " full of shit ", with your pro- Hamas propagandist sites nonsense. Never visited one, btw. You are blind and mutch more biased then I can ever be, only seeing the mud on one side of the fence.

Shalom to you to, mr. fighter for freedom and democracy. Blessed be your scar spangled banner… or is it the star of David?
[/quote]

You are too blind to see. I have never said Israel is blameless or a lily-white state whose tactics are always unimpeachable.

But they are clearly a legitimate government who does not intentionally target civilians and is not on a mission to exterminate Islam. Islamic fundamentals which happen to be the GOVERNMENT are all of these things. Israel fully deserves our support against Palestinan terrorists. We have properly taken the correct stance against Hamas considering their conduct and mission of genocide.

You’ve also failed to show a single shred of what you claim.
No evidence of racism among French or U.S. Jews. No intentional targeting of Palestine citizens by Israel. Just attacks against military targets which HAMAS places in schools, homes, community centers, and mosques.

Certainly no goals of ethic cleansing in modern Israel. No such mission. The closest you come is a horrendous but unsanctioned massacre by underground paramilitary groups before Israel was even a state that was nonetheless condemned by the leadership at the time. Not even this was an effort at ethnic cleansing. Just an unjustified attack against innocent civilans. ONE. Before Israel was a proper state. Something Palestinans routintely did and still DO.

Beghim was at odds with the establishment for decades. But he ulitmately was a hero and largely responsible for peace with Egypt.

Terrace_Lad · January 3, 2009, 8:16pm

[quote]jsbrook wrote:You’ve also failed to show a single shred of what you claim.
No evidence of racism among French or U.S.[/quote]

" Racism " is such a vague term. Let’ s just call it a false sense of superiority.

Cohen rabbi says in his book, The Talmud that the world can be spilt into two: Izrael and the other nations, Israel are the chosen people.

Joseph Weitz article in the Journal ( Tel - Aviv ) in 1965 clearly states that all Arabs should leave, without exception.

Ben Gurion states that the state of Israel must be a rapidly expansive one.

The words of Beghin, Ben Gurion, Goldstein, Eisenberg Shamir, Cohen, Elie Wiesel, Golda Meir etc. speak for themselves, one should just read them.

The Founding Myths of Modern Israel by Roger Garaudy and The Holocaust industry by Norman Finkelstein serve as great sources when it comes to zionist powerstructures in Europe and America, the jewish sense of superiority and so on.

As far as I’ m concerned zionism faces islamist integrism, Lucifer battles with Satan. For me, Hamas is the dog with rabies, seeking blood and retribution and Israel is the calculated villain who uses it’ s upper hand in international support in order to play the innocennt party.

jsbrook · January 3, 2009, 8:29pm

[quote]Terrace Lad wrote:
jsbrook wrote:You’ve also failed to show a single shred of what you claim.
No evidence of racism among French or U.S.

" Racism " is such a vague term. Let’ s just call it a false sense of superiority.

Cohen rabbi says in his book, The Talmud that the world can be spilt into two: Izrael and the other nations, Israel are the chosen people.

Joseph Weitz article in the Journal ( Tel - Aviv ) in 1965 clearly states that all Arabs should leave, without exception.

Ben Gurion states that the state of Israel must be a rapidly expansive one.

The words of Beghin, Ben Gurion, Goldstein, Eisenberg Shamir, Cohen, Elie Wiesel, Golda Meir etc. speak for themselves, one should just read them.

The Founding Myths of Modern Israel by Roger Garaudy and The Holocaust industry by Norman Finkelstein serve as great sources when it comes to zionist powerstructures in Europe and America, the jewish sense of superiority and so on.

As far as I’ m concerned zionism faces islamist integrism, Lucifer battles with Satan. For me, Hamas is the dog with rabies, seeking blood and retribution and Israel is the calculated villain who uses it’ s upper hand in international support in order to play the innocennt party.
[/quote]

And many devout Christians think anyone who doesn’t except Jesus as the savior is going to hell. The sense of superiority is just as acute in many devout Christians and Christian denominations.

And not representative of many Christians nor Jews.

And many debout Muslims want to exterminate the non-Muslim infidels. Much worse.

Hamas is the calculated villain that engineers slaugters of its own citizens to drum up international sympathy and make Israel look bad and fool dupes like you. Sad that it works in some cases.

I have read the works of all you’ve cited. And you’ve horribly twisted them.

jsbrook · January 3, 2009, 8:27pm