So Ive been reading up on the differences between the two, as I am trying to decide between one or the other for a bulking cycle.
Both shorting acting 19-nors, I know that Tren offers better strength gains.
My main question is which one will help pack on more lbs. I understand that appetite is reduced with the tren but Im assuming it is still possible to just force the food down (which I am used to)
My other question is, what is the accepted dosing protocal of the NPP. I have read the half life to be from 1.5-4.5 days, Anyone know the exact value?
Final note is that I can get the NPP for considerably less, not much of a factor but thought it was noteworthy…
All advice is appreciated
EDIT: I already searched, found some good/confusing info. “The experiments” log that BBB seemed to be coordinating offered some good info though…
See thats what Ive heard and read that the “tri-fecta” is best for straight muscle mass, but my dealer is in love with tren and keeps trying to get me to try it, and I have also know that some people love it…
Thanks for the input brook
One question that I left out, is how is the recovery in comparison (for those who know)… Im assuming it is pretty similar but I have read on some boards that NPP is still very difficult to recover from
Recovery wise - i find that people differ in the reasons they struggle to recover from certain compounds.
Myself? With Nandrolone it isnt the progesterone or the actual suppression of the HPTA that effects me so terribly, as i have always recovered using a 40/40/20/20 post cycle, but my libido always lacked severely - which i strongly believe to be prolactin induced, rather than the lack of testosterone.
This was evident in my ability to gain well and keep gains post cycle, but an inability to have sex.
I think that with the Deca ester, as it does keep releasing metabolites from the depot upto 18months later, i find the suppression OF LIBIDO and sex drive to potentially be very long, so for me i am confident that a shorter ester such as a phenlypropionate chain would ensure a faster recovery of libido. For me
As i mentioned earlier, my test was recovered within 4-8 weeks following a 8 week 300mg/wk nandrolone cycle.
As BBB suggested, a stasis period would be a good plan, and for me - i believe that if i desire to ‘recover’* between cycles (this isnt how i do things these days) then caber is a necessary addition.
*I write recover in speech-marks due to the fact i did actually recover - as we know recovery to mean, but i didnt regain full sexual lust and ability in that time.
[quote] Brook wrote:
That is the way i would use the stasis too BBB.
Recovery wise - i find that people differ in the reasons they struggle to recover from certain compounds.
Myself? With Nandrolone it isnt the progesterone or the actual suppression of the HPTA that effects me so terribly, as i have always recovered using a 40/40/20/20 post cycle, but my libido always lacked severely - which i strongly believe to be prolactin induced, rather than the lack of testosterone.
This was evident in my ability to gain well and keep gains post cycle, but an inability to have sex.
I think that with the Deca ester, as it does keep releasing metabolites from the depot upto 18months later, i find the suppression OF LIBIDO and sex drive to potentially be very long, so for me i am confident that a shorter ester such as a phenlypropionate chain would ensure a faster recovery of libido. For me
As i mentioned earlier, my test was recovered within 4-8 weeks following a 8 week 300mg/wk nandrolone cycle.
As BBB suggested, a stasis period would be a good plan, and for me - i believe that if i desire to ‘recover’* between cycles (this isnt how i do things these days) then caber is a necessary addition.
*I write recover in speech-marks due to the fact i did actually recover - as we know recovery to mean, but i didnt regain full sexual lust and ability in that time.
JMO
Brook[/quote]
Do you think I will run into the same problem with NPP? Obviously it has a much shorter half life than the deconate ester but I know its detection time is quite long; meaning that perhaps metabolites remain?
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
It’s also the lack of quality sleep that you get from tren, that IMO noticeably impedes the size gains that one might expect from tren. The drug also makes me mentally and physically sluggish, impeding drive and intensity in the gym. This is obviously counter productive to mucle growth.
I guess if you can force enough food down, you can compensate to a degree, but still not all the way.
Besides, a cycle should be an enjoyable experience. Why not use the NPP (shoot EOD, mix with test prop and an oral) for bulking and then save the tren for cutting, later on in the year, when you won’t have to fight your stomach all day, every day.
Recovery wise, yes they are both 19-nors and for that reason I personally would run them for as short a time as I could, finishing with a ‘test extension’, before you do your recovery, whether that be SERM PCT or stasis taper, or whatever. I know some will disagree with me, but I like to let my body run on what it was designed to run on (testosterone), for a period following heavy/19nor drugs.
But that’s just me.
BBB[/quote]
All great points BBB Im now almost certainly going to go with the NPP!
NPP is less supressive than Deca. It is also milder in terms of gains. Still a good drug to add to test on a short bulk cycle but not something that will add a ton of mass to your cycle. The upside is that recovery should be a lot faster with the NPP.
I have a friend that ran a 2 week cycle of Test Prop, NPP, and Var (150mg and 100mg EOD for the inj and 80mg/d for the var) and got pretty decent gains (14lbs and kept about 10lbs of it), followed it with just a few weeks of Nolva but he said he didn’t feel like he even needed it…he loved the cycle overall and was happy with the gains. he was previously that size so it just sort of rocketed him back to his peak in a short time…gains may be slower if you are in new territory size wise. It was supposed to be run as 3 short cycles which got interrupted but he managed to maintain the size from it anyway.
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
NPP is less supressive than Deca. It is also milder in terms of gains. Still a good drug to add to test on a short bulk cycle but not something that will add a ton of mass to your cycle. The upside is that recovery should be a lot faster with the NPP.
I have a friend that ran a 2 week cycle of Test Prop, NPP, and Var (150mg and 100mg EOD for the inj and 80mg/d for the var) and got pretty decent gains (14lbs and kept about 10lbs of it), followed it with just a few weeks of Nolva but he said he didn’t feel like he even needed it…he loved the cycle overall and was happy with the gains. he was previously that size so it just sort of rocketed him back to his peak in a short time…gains may be slower if you are in new territory size wise. It was supposed to be run as 3 short cycles which got interrupted but he managed to maintain the size from it anyway.[/quote]
I have heard from many different people that it is milder than the decanoate ester. Is this mainly a water retention difference, or dry muscle as well? I am running
wk 1-12 500mg Test E (Frontloaded)
wk 2-7 40mg/day Dbol
wk 2-9 Nan Phenyl Prop
What dosage would you guys reccomend? Im going to use the NPP to replace the Deca that I was going to use at 300mg/week. Should I bump the NPP to 150mg/EOD since it is milder than Deca or is 100/EOD okay?
As i mentioned earlier, i have not used the drug yet - but knowing a little about AAS and esters and the relationships of each… i doubt that it is less effective than Deca. I am confident that there is a little less water retention but it SHOULD be more effective… due to there being more active substance per mg than the Deca version… which is ‘stronger’ than the laurate version… etc…
That cycle is quite low dose - but you are experienced with your own body i assume so…
i would use 50mged of the NPP - but if you go EOD then 100mg will work just great.
Nandrolone is so commonly overdosed… and it is one of those where results become less and sides become more the higher one goes, unlike Test where it is quite proportional upto a gram or so.
[quote] Brook wrote:
As i mentioned earlier, i have not used the drug yet - but knowing a little about AAS and esters and the relationships of each… i doubt that it is less effective than Deca.
I am confident that there is a little less water retention but it SHOULD be more effective… due to there being more active substance per mg than the Deca version… which is ‘stronger’ than the laurate version… etc…
That cycle is quite low dose - but you are experienced with your own body i assume so…
i would use 50mged of the NPP - but if you go EOD then 100mg will work just great.
Nandrolone is so commonly overdosed… and it is one of those where results become less and sides become more the higher one goes, unlike Test where it is quite proportional upto a gram or so.
JMO
Would you reccommend upping the dosage of the test? This is my first cycle that is more than just test, I have done two just test cycles before this (250/week and 500/week both for ten weeks).
I might go with ED injections, I thought the Phenylprops half life was long enought that EOD would amount to pretty stable blood levels, though with all the contradicting info, ED might just be safer.
Think about it like this - the first cycle was 250mg test a week.
The second was 500mg test a week…
I think that 500mg test and 350mg nandrolone is a good progression - and one that will produce for you too. As long as your source is good.
You would be fine with EOD injections, even E3D but ED is ALWAYS going to be better… and seeing as you are running test prop (arent you?) then you will just shove them both in the same barrel and shoot every morning right?
I have enough test E, and prop to do either, I was planning on using the Test E and just pinning EOD with the NPP, but I could use the Test P as well.
I only mentioned upping the dosage because I thought you had said it was low, Im not the type to rush the mg up. The least amount of substance in my body i need to grow works for me = ).
Thanks for your help Brook!
Oh and the last question I will bug you with, I was recently informed I have access to HcG, considering Im using a 19-nor would you reccommend it? I know very little about it, so I have much research to do but figured Id ask while the thread was up…
HCG is found in the Urine of pregnant women. It stimulates ovulation in women i believe and it stimulates the leydigs cells on the testes to secrete testosterone.
This is normally done by the Pituitary releasing LH and FSH, with LH stimulating the testosterone production and the FSH stimulating the production of spermatozoa.
When one is fully suppressed there is NONE of this happening. LH and FSH are NOT secreted as GnRH is not secreted from the Hypothalamus to ‘tell’ the pituitary to release them.
This is HPTA suppression.
HCG will replace or do the job of LH so the testes make and secrete testosterone. This means that the last chain of events in this long step process is active - the release and creation of test… this will not only allow the Bollocks to keep full size as they are doing what they are supposed to - but it will also assist gains a little… i always gain a little better when i keep the balls ticking over during a cycle.
The testes being at normal operation will make the recovery of the HPTA a little easier, but there are potential negatives. There are a lot of ‘safety features’ that exist to prevent the body from making and secreting too much test. As if we would object…
One of these is the de-sensitization of the leydig cells to respond to LH (HCG) reducing the amount of test made if the supply of the control hormone is too great.
The other is the negative feedback caused by excess estrogen manufactured from the aromatase enzyme. Even naturally produced test aromatises and if you take 5000iu of HCG you get a hell of a test surge over the next couple days. And bitch tits.
The estrogen tells thehypothalamus and pituitary to stop sending the signals to produce more test… it isnt an easy task being a high testosterone male.
For these reasons HCG isnt best used during PCT - it will help recovery but not during recovery!
Best dosage is no more than 250iu 3x/wk from week 3 (where suppression becomes total in most cases) and up until a taper or before a PCT.
Hope this helps and isnt too basic - i am not meaning to patronise. I wasnt sure of your understanding of the drug.
