Note To Type 2 Diabetics

Nutrition
41

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
You guys must be REALLY sick of my rather loquacious posts.

Only a little… :slight_smile:

I agree with what you’re saying. I know my doctor gave me the options. He said I was definitely bad enough to go on meds, but siad it was up to me if I wanted to try to lose weight first, or just go on the meds. Of course, I opted for no meds. And have never needed any.

Also- just a clarification point- most type II’s never get bad enough to actually need insulin injections. Usually it’s either controlled by pills or diet. I remember a study from a University near me once that said the percentage of Type II’s actually on insulin was only around 20%, and mostly elderly. 20% is still high, but not overly so. I don’t know what their test group was, but I assume it was a representative sample.[/quote]

I appreciate your patience. When I first allowed the reality of my situation to fully sink in I went through serious depression and anger. I did not however ever blame anyone, but myself. Knowing how healthy I could’ve been had I just practiced what I already knew all those years and seeing how low I’d taken myself was killing me.

I really did not believe I would ever be able to get it under control again. When I decidied to try to show my wife and daughter that though I’d really screwed up, If I had to die young, maybe blind, I could at least show them a valiant effort at being the best I could til then. As I saw the glucose tests start to drop and my health steadily improve it was, is very exciting. It was like, I don’t believe it, this shit is working!!!

I would really love to see a study, especially in North America that surveyed people on what they were told when diagnosed type2. Maybe it’s not as bad as I’m thinking, but everybody I have any personal knowledge of in 4 states was told to immediately start the meds, go on a low fat diet with plenty of carbs still (I wanna scream) and make sure they walk around some each day. The spectre of needles and insulin is involved in every conversation I have with them.

My brother in law is on injections already. I can’t help, but wonder how many insulin dependent type2’s are so needlessly. The most maddening part is that all these folks have been medicated for a while and they still struggle with their damn blood sugar and are constantly in their doctor’s office for some new commonly accepted plan.

After less than six months mine’s totally under control, with nothing more than very sound fitness practices. 108 this morning upon waking. I’ve been watching it closer since starting the anabolic diet because of the radical nutritional change.

That’s another study I’d love to see. Reduced carb eating and weight training for type2 diabetics. At least ones who weren’t physically incapable of that for some reason. I’m glad you have your situation in hand as well. I apologize if I ever came off the wrong way, I just want to grab people and shake em and tell them “there is every likelihood YOU can control this”. You obviously don’t need that.

–Tiribulus->

42

A good doc SHOULD give you the option of diet and exercise before stampeding for the medicine cabinet. Here is what they see time and again…

40 year old guy comes in. He’s 5’9", 243 pounds, blood pressure is 152/90, and he is a total desk jockey. Only exercise he does is get up from the couch to get another Snickers bar out of the freezer (cause he likes them cold). You sit down, take 45 minutes going over diet, plan an exercise program for him. Low carb, moderate fat, no fired foods, watch salt. Start with walking, light strength training to begin with. He has a gym membership he doesn’t use.

2 months later he comes back. He did walk…twice. He’s now 254 pounds, blood pressure is the same. He tried to eat that “rabbit food” but didn’t like it. So you are stuck putting him on medication.

He comes back 3 months later and his blood sugars are under better control. Blood pressure is pretty good on the meds. He is still eating the Snickers, isn’t exercising, but takes his medicine at the same time everyday, to the minute. He’s now 265 pounds. He complains of fatigue. Souds like sleep apnea, so you do the testing…it is.

Now this fat bastard is on 2 blood pressure medications, a cholesterol med, and meds for his diabetes. He also straps a CPAP machine to his face every night so he doesn’t stop breathing 85 times an hour. This cycle will continue. He will eventually die of his obesity related disease. Did I mention he also smokes and drinks?

It is the rare guy who comes in, you go over everything, he comes back, and he is 20 pounds lighter, blood sugar is way down, almost normal, blood pressure coming down. He is hitting the gym, and really enjoying it. I see more Lyme disease than diabetics who lose wight and exercise.

SOme docs just get burned out. They figure why spend the time to tell people something they aren’t going to listen to anyway? Put this schlub on medication, get him outta here. It isn’t right. It is a disservice to that guy who WILL do what you tell him. If your doc does that, get a new one.

43

[quote]teratos wrote:

SOme docs just get burned out. [/quote]

and no offense to any docs here, but many are just as clueless as to proper nutrition and exercise as everyone else. They aren’t taught this stuff in med school.

That’s why trainers and doctors should work side by side.

44

Some interesting debate. In the case of type 2 diabetes because of a sendentary lifestyle and obesity, I would question whether it is really a “disease” at all.

The fact that you have no ability to absorb nutrients, when insulin is raised, appears to be due to lack of consumption of fats that make cells more permeable, lack of muscle cells which are capable of absorbing nutrients and related issues and lack of exercise which prompts cells to be more permeable as well.

For type 2 diabetes, in many cases, I would argue it is instead a self imposed condition, or state of being, that reflects an unhealthy and unnatural lifestyle. Is the body responsible for being able to adjust to this unnatural state of being in order to be considered healthy and disease free?

You could argue against that interpretation.

Quibbling about whether or not someone is cured is a strange thing. If the body is restored to normal function, then the person doesn’t have to worry about whether or not they have been “cured” in whatever sense of the word it is used.

45

[quote]teratos wrote:
A good doc SHOULD give you the option of diet and exercise before stampeding for the medicine cabinet. Here is what they see time and again…
[/quote]

This what I was saying and is undoutedly true. A lot of folks have to be faced with imminemt death or dismemberment before they take action even on their own behalf which is something I overlooked at the beginning of this thread. I can envision the scenarios you describe very easily. I didn’t even do anything specifically to attack diabetes. I had just had enough and said to myself you were in superb physical condition before, you ARE 42 now, but let’s see what happens if we do those things again. I’m sitting here typing this as a physically born again man. It is fixing my health problems on all levels. I wish there was a way to get more people to try that.

If you just get them to do it long enough to see some results I bet a lot of them would get hooked on their new found well being over twinkies and pepsi. I do appreciate your input doc, you sound like a good guy.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
and no offense to any docs here, but many are just as clueless as to proper nutrition and exercise as everyone else. They aren’t taught this stuff in med school.

That’s why trainers and doctors should work side by side.[/quote]

There can’t be any doubt about this. To hear some of the just plain wrong advice people I know are getting is enough to make you beat your head on a wall. My friend tells me his doctor tells him that what I’m doing won’t work as well as what he’s telling him to do. I hold my testing meter up and say “let’s see yours” . You’ve been on this medication how long and yours is still high? Mine was 3 times higher than his 6 months ago. But he’s a doctor, he must know right?

[quote]Vroom wrote:
Some interesting debate. In the case of type 2 diabetes because of a sendentary lifestyle and obesity, I would question whether it is really a “disease” at all.
[/quote]

Not being qualified to state that catagorically doesn’t stop me from leaning… far… in that direction. We have seen an explosion of type2 in the last 30 years with it growing like a weed every decade since. Is there some magic diabetic dust that likes to pick on, primarily industrialized western cultures, floating into the atmosphere from a pancreatically challenged insulin resistant comet that recently started orbiting our planet that we don’t know about yet? Or is the deluge of processed refined foods and kneejerk nutritional advice suspect here. The world didn’t have diabetics crawling out of the woodwork before. Is it reasonable to believe that all this would’ve just “happened” because that’s the way it is. We never had supermarkets, fast food joints and corner stores full of shit food until the latter half of the last century and we didn’t have this epidemic of nutritionally related diseases either. Now we have both. That’s not even to mention modern convenience and entertainment that practically strongarm people from birth into a slovenly sedentary life style. I’ll try n get off my soapbox now.

–Tiribulus->

46

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Is there some magic diabetic dust that likes to pick on, primarily industrialized western cultures, floating into the atmosphere from a pancreatically challenged insulin resistant comet that recently started orbiting our planet that we don’t know about yet? Or is the deluge of processed refined foods and kneejerk nutritional advice suspect here. The world didn’t have diabetics crawling out of the woodwork before. Is it reasonable to believe that all this would’ve just “happened” because that’s the way it is. We never had supermarkets, fast food joints and corner stores full of shit food until the latter half of the last century and we didn’t have this epidemic of nutritionally related diseases either. Now we have both. That’s not even to mention modern convenience and entertainment that practically strongarm people from birth into a slovenly sedentary life style. I’ll try n get off my soapbox now.

–Tiribulus->[/quote]

Nice rant. Leave some room on the soapbox for the rest of us… :wink:

47

Diabetes (type 2) is most definitely a disease. There is a a genetic pattern to it, and there are people who are thin and fit and still develop it. That being said, the vast majority of people with diabetes have it because of their lifestyle. The problem with type 2 diabetes is insulin resistance. The body actually makes MORE insulin than it should, but can’t use it. This is increased by excess adipose tissue, as there are factors made by adipose tissue (search “resistin” if you are interested, although there is debate about this) which increase resistance. Conversely, exercise increases insulin sensitivity.

You can’t blame lifestyle in everyone, but for most people that is exactly the problem.

48

[quote]teratos wrote:
Diabetes (type 2) is most definitely a disease. There is a a genetic pattern to it, and there are people who are thin and fit and still develop it. That being said, the vast majority of people with diabetes have it because of their lifestyle. The problem with type 2 diabetes is insulin resistance. The body actually makes MORE insulin than it should, but can’t use it. This is increased by excess adipose tissue, as there are factors made by adipose tissue (search “resistin” if you are interested, although there is debate about this) which increase resistance. Conversely, exercise increases insulin sensitivity.

You can’t blame lifestyle in everyone, but for most people that is exactly the problem. [/quote]

Fair enough, as I say you would know better than me. Now, having said that, is this very much more than a semantic difference? I’ve said all along that I have no doubt that some people will develop it no matter what they do. However for those who “get it” through usually unwitting self abuse and wouldn’t have otherwise, is this a disease in the sense that utterly involuntary afflictions like leukemia and menengitis are for instance?

Maybe the strict medical definition of disease is just broader than I know. Maybe I’m erecting an erroneous dichotomy with self induced and non self induced sicknesses being conditions and diseases respectively. Maybe I’m over analyzing the whole thing and should just be happy that it’s under control ;-D

–Tiribulus->

49

You are 100% correct in saying that in most cases it is self inflicted. You have to have the desire and drive to overcome it. It is so easy to just take pills and think you are under control.

Most disease we see in modern medicine is self induced. If it weren’t for obesity, fast food, lack of exercise, and smoking, I would be able to spend more time in the gym. These people are making sure i stay small and weak.

50

[quote]teratos wrote:
You are 100% correct in saying that in most cases it is self inflicted. You have to have the desire and drive to overcome it. It is so easy to just take pills and think you are under control.

Most disease we see in modern medicine is self induced. If it weren’t for obesity, fast food, lack of exercise, and smoking, I would be able to spend more time in the gym. These people are making sure i stay small and weak.[/quote]

DAMN THEM!! Second hand sedentarianism. See, they’re not happy killing themselves, they have to try n bring you with em. You strike me, as much as that’s possible over a web forum, as someone who actually gives a shit about his patients. It must be tough watching folks off themselves when the answers are right in front of them. I don’t know if I would be cut out for that. I’d wind up grabbing somebody by the neck and yelling at them " U R GO ING 2 DIE, IT DOES NOT HAF 2 B, R U IN THERE!!!" . That’s another point. Some docs probably push themselves into professional indifference to avoid the emotional toll. I could see that happening over time and it’d be tough to fault them for it.

–Tiribulus->

51

I got an object lesson this weekend on the importance of not getting too cocky, at least this early in my recovery. It was my second carb load on the anabolic diet and I pounded down the carbs starting Saturday morning in a completely unrestrained manner. All clean, but TONS of oatmeal, potatoes, fruit, beans etc.

Glucose levels were fine all day Saturday and first thing Sunday. Sunday morning I made another pot of oatmeal which I cook extra thick and then top with a blender full of milk, pears, apples, bananas, steamed potatoes and whey powder with a drizzle of EVOO. I put most of a box of raisins in the pot as well.

About an hour and a half after two very large bowls my blood sugar crept up to just over 200 for the first time in a couple of months. I slowed down on the load and by mid afternoon it was back down to the 130’s and it stayed there the rest of the day, but a valuable lesson learned.

I’m going to have to not eat so much at once and be a bit more mindful of what I’m doing. I ate smaller carb meals the rest of the day and it was back to normal.

–Tiribulus->

52

Yeah unless you’re doing regular bouts of cardio, your numbers could still creep up like that. Doing cardio helps keep your numbers low for about 24-hrs or so afterwards, unless of course you gorge yourself (i.e. chinese buffet), which it didn’t sound like you did with all those low-moderate GI/GL carbs.

This is why it’s difficult for a diabetic to go on a bulk, or as you tried- to diet and then carb load.

I’m currently bulking so I’m avoiding cardio and eating plenty. I’ve noticed a few higher numbers here and there, even though I considered myself in remission…

53

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Yeah unless you’re doing regular bouts of cardio, your numbers could still creep up like that. Doing cardio helps keep your numbers low for about 24-hrs or so afterwards, unless of course you gorge yourself (i.e. chinese buffet), which it didn’t sound like you did with all those low-moderate GI/GL carbs.

This is why it’s difficult for a diabetic to go on a bulk, or as you tried- to diet and then carb load.

I’m currently bulking so I’m avoiding cardio and eating plenty. I’ve noticed a few higher numbers here and there, even though I considered myself in remission…[/quote]

Yeah, I think I have to not slam that second unnecessary bowl of very carb calorie dense oatmeal. That was the only time it showed any signs of budging above 160.

Some guys on the AD eat whole boxes of fruity pebbles, ice cream etc. I keep it clean mainly because I lose control fast if I allow food to become too enjoyable as dark as that sounds.

It still amazes me though how utterly controllable my glucose levels are. Adjust and back to normal. The first carb load was no problem. I checked it about 10 times over 2 days and it was fine.

–Tiribulus->

54

This weekend I decided to go for smaller carb load meals instead of stuffing myself all at once like last weekend. Same food. My glucose readings peaked at 156 a little while ago. I can live with that. No pun intended.

–Tiribulus->

55

On annother note we were just as Sam’s club and there was a lady doing blood pressure tests and I and her take mine. 118/84!! 6 months ago it was 180 something over 110. I don’t know why I waited so long to get back into training.

–Tiribulus->