Not Worth Responding To!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1

Recently there have been a few posts by certain members that simply attack with no substance. Personally, I enjoy some give and take on the issues. That is one reason that I respond regularly to members who present facts which I usually disagree with.

People like Lumpy and some others, usually make some decent points and are very worthy of a response. Debating the facts stimulates ideas. While I am sure that the participants minds may not be changed, others viewing these threads can perhaps be swayed. Either way it’s fun.

However, cetain posts that have been appearing lately by others are basically hateful and unworthy of a response. Keep in mind when you respond to these types of posts you are encouraging the individual to continue the behavior. Even when you write a negatve response. This gives the person a feeling of power and then he continues.

Obviously, everyone is free to write what they feel (as long as the moderators allow it) However, I will not be taking part in any sort of post which is hateful, or has no point other than to belittle another human being.

Take care,

Zeb

2

[quote]ZEB wrote:
People like Lumpy and some others, usually make some decent points and are very worthy of a response. Debating the facts stimulates ideas.
[/quote]
Thanks buddy, I appreciate that. Since I get hammered every once in a while with a personal insult (Lumpy you ignorant slut) I’m glad to hear I’m not always completely full of crap.

I know what you mean about the insulting posts that lack substance. I’d like to see more criticisms and debates over IDEAS and POLICIES, and try to get beyond a grade school level debate. I’d say this cuts both ways, as far as pro-Bush and anti-Bush.

I’m surely as guilty of going negative as anyone, but I’ve also tried to add some comments with substance to the discussion too.

You hippy :wink:

3

Lumpy,

I don’t know what I would do without our daily give and take. (I’m smiling).

4

Yo.

J/k

5

I poke my head down here in the political forum every so often and I agree with what is being said here. There have been a lot of garbage posts that serve no purpose other than promoting hate without a supporting argument.

Don’t respond to them

6

ZEB- I think this is the proper place to reply to your post on my attacks on Lumpy.

Do I go after him? Hell yes I do. Why? Read his posts.

He has no problem calling people idiots, selfish, uninformed, etc. One can assume that if a person asserts those things about others he considers himself to be smart, generous, knowledgeable, etc.

Take his comment on Rush Limbaugh and hunger in the USA for instance. One is stupid if one doesn’t think that hunger is a big problem here for the poor. Based on what? I read in the paper not too long ago that for the poor hunger was not the problem, obesity was. We are the first nation in history to have thin rich people and poor fat people in general. The poor in a sense may be malnourished while being overfed due to the substandard quality of the food they eat.

With the internet and say, Google, one can easily look it up. Read the article, find the study behind it. Drive around the poor part of town and look at the folks. One can do many things to come to an informed opinion. Don’t just spray.

What does Lumpy do over and over? Read the posts. That is a “bunch of shit.” He is an “idiot” for believing that.

Look at his reply on the thread you made the post about my Lumpy comments. If he is going to take that road, fine, I’ll travel down there with him and drive the same way, personally. Read my posts. Overall, I don’t make that many absolute or declarative statements- I read or studies say or the report suggests. I pose lots of questions.

I didn’t say Lumpy was dense. I asked a question of a somewhat rhetorical slant. A fine line yes, but again, read his posts. If you dish it out be prepared to take it.

Actually, a lot of my posts fairly well beg for a bon mot aimed back right between the eyes. I am teasing him and calling him out, so to speak. If he gets me a good one bully for him.

I stated before his reach exceeds his grasp and he fills the gap with invective. Subjectively, my opinion, and objectively, I think a good case can be made for it. I think that his intellect isn’t all that well developed and it filters out all that doesn’t emotionally jibe with his Weltanschaung. Again, that is my subjective opinion.

In my interactions with Vroom, do you ever see any of the same tone or comments? I probably don’t agree with him on that much, but so what? It’s how you state your case and back it up.

We are all big boys here. No one is getting hurt and nothing is getting broken.

If you feel that my points are off-base, retarded, or yes, but, or whatever, fine and dandy. Tell me why, if it’s worth your time. I’m still waiting for a good comeback from Lumpy. If he delivers, I might even lock him in a John-John brace.

7

schrauper,

I never stated that Lumpy has not personally attacked people in the past. However, he gave a similar response as you! He attacks only when he is attacked. I think who started it is far less important than who ends it.

What would happen if the people who attacked others personally (whoever they are) got no response? Personally, I feel if the debate stays above the fray we are then able to focus better on the issues. It also means that more people may be drawn into this section and hence we will even have more issues being raised that are pertinent to the topic. Currently many stay away from this section because they don’t like the name calling and personal attacks.

It might be a good idea if we all take a step back and actually respond as if the person were directly in front of us.

By the way, thanks for reponding to my post. I think posting it on this thread was a great idea. Also, again I agree with all of your political points. Especially “the rich people are thin and the poor people are fat.” Great observation, so very true.

Take care,

Zeb

8

I think Zeb has to define his idea of ‘no substance’. If the author of a post cites public statements, public records, books by an author, then these are statements of substance. If the statements in the public domain are stupid, deceptive, or plain evil, then the person writing the post has every right to express outrage.
In our politically correct world, we’re taught to ‘be nice’ and accept anyone and everything. Ever wonder about the reason behind that? Maybe someone WANTS you to accept something which you would normally find to be evil.

9

peartmath,

I agree with you! If you consider an idea “evil” you have every right, and in fact duty, to call it such!

I am against politically correct speech. I have no use for it whatsoever. My only point is this: there have been far to many posts on this forum as of late which do nothing but attack people personally. They make no point, have no real argument. And these particular posters offer no (or very little) facts. It’s simply hateful slander at it’s worst. (not at all referring to schraupers posts)

I think that we can agree that attacking an issue, or an idea is a legitimate form of debate. I further think that it takes a little class (something dramatically missing in todays world)to refrain from personal attacks on individuals, especially on an internet fourm where there is no face to face discussion.

I am also for bringing more people into the debate from both sides. The best way to do this is to stick to the issues and pull back on the personal insults.

Thanks for your comments!

Zeb

10

Zeb, if we were talking politics in person, I for one would have at least a few beers in the old belly. It might get a little heated, but I would make the same points in about the same way. I would tell Lumpy to lighten up, get the facts or evidence strait and contain his arguments to what he can support better, not just proclaim and expect to taken at face value. At the end of the night we would agree to disagree and life would go on.

I am around people who fundamentally disagree with my political viewpoints all the time. I don’t have a problem going into the fray and taking a jab or two, so to speak. But at least before someone gets in the ring, do some homework. Cliffnotes don’t count.

I want this to be fun, or as fun as posting about politics can be. Personally, I don’t think a scootch of ball-busting now and then to add a little levity is going to hurt things much.

We aren’t changing the world here so we might as well have fun with it.

Regards, schrauper

PS The reason that I have responded to Lumpy’s posts the way I have it that I think he does like to get that unprovoked jab in there. Oh well.

11

Nah, I think you’re a little sensitive since I told you your posts were long-winded and pretentious.

Hah! You devoted 10 paragraphs to pontificate about what Lumpy says.

12

schrauper,

That was very well stated! However, I think we all need to keep in mind that there is still a very big difference between saying something to someones face and typing it in a forum. I think it is a bit presumptuous to claim that we would indeed speak the same way to a persons face as we sometimes do on this forum.

Maybe we would, and maybe we wouldn’t. I do know that anonymity gives some people incredible courage. Along with this anonymity we also have many hundreds of miles separating us. Both of these things give some carte blanche to launch a tirade of insults whenever they feel the need. I call that immature and cowardly! (please note I am not referring to you).

On the contrary we have Arnold using the term “girlie men” to describe the California lawmakers. Since there is no anonymity I think he is a politician who is speaking his mind. Pretty rare in todays world.

I hope that I have pointed out the differences clearly and you consider my point.

Thanks for reading,

Zeb

13

No, I devote 10 paragraphs saying what Lumpy wrote is wrong and sophomoric. I do it because it’s fun and I utterly failed at taking candy from kids because it was too hard.

ZEB- can you see the difference I’m talking about here? He doesn’t seem to be taking it that hard, now does he? I’m smiling at the moment myself.

Lumpy- you’ve got to work on your comebacks a lot more.

14

First of all no one “knows” how hard anyone takes an insult on a forum. Secondly, even if someone does not get all that offended certain comments are still beneath us.

15

Zeb: You are so so so correct…This is strike 2 with Lumpy and vroom. I do not apprecaite one bit them calling me names, or lashing out the way they do at me. WHen I do not even call them names. People completely forget the person on the other side of the person on the keyboard. Or THINK before they post. They find the littlest things to to nit pick on. Or back up with what they say. I have told the both of them repetedly. You call one names, or lash out at something you see someone said, back it up with articles, websites that we can go to.

As I said in the post about Mrs Kerry, I go and read every word someone says. I go in on the net, and see is there any validity into something they are saying. I do a little research on it. And then I look at sites are they saying the same thing or somethign different. Then I make the posting, and back it up with what I am trying to say.

And like so many of us, we do not call people names, even if we do not have the same views, as the person writing the posting.

So I can see Zeb, you posted what you did…And I appreciate you saying what you did. But just one more strike with Zeb and Lumpy, and like a powerlfiting competition they will be red lighted, and I will never respond or read another post they make. Unless they stop this name calling, and lashing out the way they do…

Joe

16

oops sorry Zeb…not you by all means…But Lumpy and vroom…

Joe

17

ZEB- I guess we have a different perspective here. If someone want to write posts in a more formal and civil manner and stick to the issues then that is the tone that I will engage them in. I’m not out to ‘get’ people.

If, on the other hand, people write posts about all of you right-wing this and Bush-loving that and how you must all be idiots and morons and bad people who want others to strave and freeze, well, they are fair game to a point. I’m not going to write that so and so is a douche bag and that’s that. I will, though mock and riducule their posts, because it is fun and hopefully they can see that maybe it’s a bit much.

Can’t argue with you on how people take things, but I will go with the fair game rule. I should fully expect to get some pointed barbs back my way. No big deal.

If someone wants to call people,individually and stereotypically, idiots, morons, dopes, condesend and mock, expect it back. If someone tries to advance an argument in a measured, reasonable way, I don’t think that it’s too hard to return them the favor.

Example:

I post: Dubbya is a moron and Lumpy is an idiot for being in love with him.

Lumpy replies: I think George W. Bush is a genius and you sir are a dolt for assuming anything to the contrary.

Or: I post: I agree with the President on issue X because of points A, B, and C.

Lumpy replies: I disagree with the President on issue X because of points A, B, C, and D and ponder the consequences of E as well.

Mixing the two is what I try to avoid. And if I am trying to deflate someone’s bombbast, I try to use a touch of humor to do so.

18

Shrauper
Aha… The remarks that offended you, which led to your insulting me first, as I recall, is my post on paying taxes so that people in America don’t starve to death or freeze to death.

I can recall that now, seeing as how you keep referring to my comments about freezing and starving. That comment really bugged you!!!

You responded to my post with personal insults. How about sacking up and admitting you threw the first stone? I’ve been posting here for over a year, and you just showed up recently with both guns blasting. Quit pretending that your attacks are in response to me attacking you… the truth is that you don’t like my opinions, and that’s what leads you to attack, but not with logic, but with personal slams.

Try a little honesty.

19

Bah, grow up chicken little! (bye bye)

20

Lumpy, Lumpy, Lumpy- What are we going to do with you? I first refered to you and your posts with derision not, as you recall incorrectly, on the thread about wealth distribution. No, it was before that on the Rush Limbaugh vs. Micheal Moore thread.

I’ve never claimed that you personally insulted me first and therefore I considered you fair game. I have said that anybody who writes the posts that you do has made themselves a target. If you call people in general retards and idiots, use DUH!!! and Ha!, mock their sources, refer to articles as a bunch of shit, and write like you know it all, do you not expect it?

Of course I repeat the freezing and starving comments- it’s called throwing jabs. You work them in here and there now and then. Well, I do anyway.

I’d like to say that I’m sorry for pissing in your soup in these threads, but I’m not. I’m not pretending to attack you in response to anything personal. I attack the posts I choose to because they consist of flimsy, sophomoric cant designed to distill the world down to your very intellectually limited view of it. Anything that doesn’t fit your personal, emotionally comfortable orthodoxy is to be attacked and dismissed. That you very often don’t have sufficient, or even any, means to do so is irrelevant. All that, and of course it’s fun and easy.

You are right about one thing, I don’t like your opinions. So what. I attack, unilaterally, because of the way you express them. You are not the first little lefty know-it-all I’ve come across in this big old world. Your are more strident than average, though. I can’t help but add that you are a bit more gramatically challenged too.

“…the truth is that you don’t like my opinions, and that’s what leads you to attack, but not with logic, but with personal slams.” Please tell me that you didn’t read closely what you wrote.

Then again, I really don’t care. Posting here isn’t going to make me leaner, more muscular, richer, smarter, or better-looking. I am not going to change your mind and you sure as hell don’t bring nearly enough to change mine. I doubt very seriously that if I don’t view these threads my world is going to change one iota. So have at it, Lumpy, go for the gold!!!