'Not Meant' to Eat?

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

  1. Foods that have any kind of detrimental effect (regardless of quantity and frequency, two major, important distinctions that were mostly ignored) should not be eaten. And of course the continued belief that starchy carbs and grains are incredibly bad for you, and the idea that if prehistoric man didn’t eat it, you can’t either.
    [/quote]

This is the thing I don’t get - the basis that because caveman didn’t do or use something, we shouldn’t either. I just don’t get it. Should we not use medicine, use microwaves, drive cars, use cellphones, get on planes, and so on? After all, some waste products from some of these things really aren’t the best things for you.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

This is the thing I don’t get - the basis that because caveman didn’t do or use something, we shouldn’t either. I just don’t get it. Should we not use medicine, use microwaves, drive cars, use cellphones, get on planes, and so on? After all, some waste products from some of these things really aren’t the best things for you. [/quote]

The thing is their belief that somehow our physiology is not designed to process those foods - except that it obviously is.

It’s a circular argument that goes nowhere. Things come in waves - fads and the like. If it’s not some whacked out training program, it’s some kind of polarized bullshit like this.

To me, balance is really the only thing that makes any sense. I mean, carbs are protein sparing, and without getting into a huge debate about AD style programs vs. a higher carb approach, ample carbs aren’t going to hurt you if you PUT THEM TO GOOD USE. If you’re trying to get to sub 5% bodyfat, then that’s a different story, but unless you’re allergic, I simply do not see how grains, corn, rice or potatoes are any kind of a problem, unless you overconsume the shit out of them.

Man, bodybuilders got fucking ripped in the 80s on high carb/low fat, dudes do it running completely on Ketones…I mean, the bottom line is that many different approaches work. It’s being a slave to some particular dogma that irks the shit out of me.

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I guarantee you that every caveman that ever lived would have been all about him some fucking cocoa puffs.

Why are we aspiring to be so much like a dude that was too fucking stupid to figure out how to milk a cow anyway?[/quote]

This is also the line of thinking that I LIKE. Think of the word EVOLVE and what it means! Why should think in terms of devolution?

Caveman’s life consisted of little more than activities to stay alive and procreate.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I guarantee you that every caveman that ever lived would have been all about him some fucking cocoa puffs.

Why are we aspiring to be so much like a dude that was too fucking stupid to figure out how to milk a cow anyway?[/quote]

This is also the line of thinking that I LIKE. Think of the word EVOLVE and what it means! Why should think in terms of devolution?

Caveman’s life consisted of little more than activities to stay alive and procreate. [/quote]

And Im sure cavemen also did another big no no…combine carbs and fat!

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

Man, bodybuilders got fucking ripped in the 80s on high carb/low fat, dudes do it running completely on Ketones…I mean, the bottom line is that many different approaches work. It’s being a slave to some particular dogma that irks the shit out of me. [/quote]

This thread doesn’t really have a chance of ever reaching “those people” so I’ll comment on this instead haha

Troy Alves who was 2nd(and could easily have won) the Tampa Pro this weekend diets under Chris Aceto who is notorious for moderate protein, high carb and trace EFAs. Seems to work just fine for his guys… one of Palumbo’s guys Ben White won the show and everyone knows he favors Keto diets.

Both of those guys could likely switch nutritionists for a year and come back in equal condition, the bottom line is they picked a plan and executed it whether or not it was primal or they were “meant” to eat/not eat certain foods.

[quote]Scott M wrote:

Troy Alves who was 2nd(and could easily have won) the Tampa Pro this weekend diets under Chris Aceto who is notorious for moderate protein, high carb and trace EFAs. Seems to work just fine for his guys… one of Palumbo’s guys Ben White won the show and everyone knows he favors Keto diets.

Both of those guys could likely switch nutritionists for a year and come back in equal condition, the bottom line is they picked a plan and executed it whether or not it was primal or they were “meant” to eat/not eat certain foods. [/quote]

Exactly man. I mean, whether it’s training or nutrition, the key is smart utilization of the basic tools and principles which have been around in some form or another for over 70 years, combined with consistency.

Many approaches will work, if you pick one and give it the time and energy required to succeed. It’s the biggest thing most people are missing - consistency. Oh, and patience - everyone wants it fucking yesterday

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I guarantee you that every caveman that ever lived would have been all about him some fucking cocoa puffs.

[/quote]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how this thread should end.

God damn, I love cocoa puffs.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I guarantee you that every caveman that ever lived would have been all about him some fucking cocoa puffs.

[/quote]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how this thread should end.

God damn, I love cocoa puffs.[/quote]

Do you mean to say…you’re coo coo for cocoa puffs?

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I guarantee you that every caveman that ever lived would have been all about him some fucking cocoa puffs.

[/quote]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how this thread should end.

God damn, I love cocoa puffs.[/quote]

Do you mean to say…you’re coo coo for cocoa puffs?[/quote]

YOU KEEP YOUR FANCY PSYCHOLOGY DOUBLESPEEK OUTTA THIS!

I’m surprised no one commented on this post of mine:

"I’m glad I started another long lasting thread. I can only hope for this much commentary when I come out with my website, which I plan on putting up late this year.

Modok: Yes, we’ve touched on several things here - nutritional quality, evolution, performance, and physiology.

I like discussing all these things. However, if you look at my original post, you can see that I mainly put it up because of the evolutionary argument and perspective. I know I keep repeating this ad nauseum (might have done three or four times here already), but my main gripe is fitness professionals discussing nutrition from an evolutionary standpoint when they show no formal training or education or competence in a life science, physical anthropology, or history.

There’s no way as an RD and ordinary dude I’m delving into the topic of the evolution of man. I don’t know shit about it, and people using the WEAK reasoning of, “We’re not meant to eat _____ because it’s only been 10,000 years since we’ve done so,” shows they don’t know much abotu it either!

I’ll repeat myself again: We’ve only discovered and/or consumed so-and-so food item for _____ years. I ask, So what?

How doesn’t this tell me it’s not a good idea to eat so-and-so food item?

What successful bodybuilder or athlete doesn’t eat grains?

REALLY, whose health is being hampered from consuming things like corn, barley, oatmeal, rice, millet, rye, and wheat and products made of them - provided they’re not allergic - in APPROPRIATE amounts?

XAB: I’m glad you did drop names on RDs that have no business dabbling with sports dietetics! I appreciate that much more than the dumbass blanket statement of “idiotic dietitians” because the word “idiotic” can be appplied to all professions. The first THREE doctors I went to for treatment of my hypogonadism were morons - morons that couldn’t tell something was wrong despite the fact that my lab results showed that my LH, FSH, and testosterone levels were abnormal, with the LH and FSH values being VERY LOW. Those guys are idiots!

About the picture: Of course that’s not a flattering image of RDs and Chris Shugart purposely hunted down a picture of two nebishy, unstylish, overweight dietitians to prove his point that RDs AS A WHOLE shouldn’t be taken seriously. It’s a rather juvenile move considering I’ve seen a whole slew of nurses (loads of fat ones, at least where I’ve worked), doctors, and dentists (my former one was a very fat woman) and YES, PERSONAL TRAINERS that are out of shape and have wack style. In all my years as a nutrition professional and a student, I haven’t had too many peers that are out of shape or in poor health. What few people realize is that some obese RDs became RDs because of their interest in their own physical and mental condition.

Shugart has had a habit in the past few years of using rather juvenile tactics to get his point across. Yeah, all of us on here loathe the thought of being fat. But do we really have to post pics of morbidly obese fat people who’ve possibly destroyed their lives? I don’t find it funny, and as a professional will never use that sort of tool to warn people of the dangers of poor health habits or to motivate them to implement them.

It’s also rather juvenile and mean spirited to say more infantile shit like, “Chubby guys get no ass and if they do, it’s from fat, ugly chics.” First off, I know a ton of ordinary AND chubby dudes with women and they don’t give a rat’s ass about a muscle! And second, being ugly isn’t something someone controls and to say that ugly people don’t deserve sex or a relationship IS mean spirited! Anyway, I’ve also seen LOADS of ugly dudes with hot women - and NO, not all - actually hardly any - of these guys are loaded."

So then, I’m curious: does the standard RD program not include training for sports-related nutrition? Brick, you’ve mentioned specific “sports dietitians.” Do RDs get extra letters after their name for that, or is it more of a focus area?

Also, one last bad dietitian story from personal experience. I don’t have this dietitian’s name on me, but I suppose I could call my aunt up and ask… My aunt has been struggling with weight for a long time, and hired a dietitian. While the diet plan was sound (50/30/20 or so, if I recall), the dietitian specifically ordered my aunt NOT to do any resistance training whatsoever. This came as a shock to her since she already did a lot of pilates. His reason? “You’ll lose more weight that way.” Um, yeah. But who really wants to lose lean mass?

That one really struck me as either incompetence at a very basic level or a blatant, calculated wrongdoing against my aunt that only serves to show a lower number on the scale. A health professional putting a peri-menopausal woman on a program SPECIFICALLY encouraging muscle loss is a scary thought to me.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m surprised no one commented on this post of mine:

It’s also rather juvenile and mean spirited to say more infantile shit like, “Chubby guys get no ass and if they do, it’s from fat, ugly chics.” First off, I know a ton of ordinary AND chubby dudes with women and they don’t give a rat’s ass about a muscle! And second, being ugly isn’t something someone controls and to say that ugly people don’t deserve sex or a relationship IS mean spirited! Anyway, I’ve also seen LOADS of ugly dudes with hot women - and NO, not all - actually hardly any - of these guys are loaded."[/quote]

Brick, anyone with half a brain knows this is merely a marketing ploy to sell V-diet packages. The fitness industry has always tried to sell us this fallacy…that you can’t lay quality women unless you can see your abs. Generally the guys who buy into this belief tend to have a lot more problems than a less than impressive waistline!

TBH I am a fan of a lot of the velocity life stuff CS blogs about… but as you pointed out some of the things he says are flat out wrong like the above mentioned points.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Well, I was wrong. People are meant to eat anything that is edible. [/quote]

Actually thought about this more, and I’m back to my original stance: we’re not meant to eat gummy bears and twinkies.

Yes, people in extreme situations of survival (hypocaloric states caused by underconsumption or over activity) can get away with eating crap food without immediate negative effects. Honestly, I do wonder what the longterm effect on Debs health will be for her food choices, but thats just speculation on my part and only time will tell either way.

By the way, I’m on T-Nation having an argument with Professor X where he is defending junk food. Weird.

Anyway, yeah, we’re not meant to eat junk like that. Just because we can “get away” with it, to varying degrees, doesn’t mean its something we should be doing at all.

[quote]BrentGoose wrote:

[quote]Scott M wrote:
This morning I had eggs(some whole some extra whites) with spinach and a little tumeric/sea salt, oatmeal with some cherries tossed in, coffee w/a little cinnamon and a few fish oil caps

Can someone please tell me if I’m going to be OK or not?

[/quote]

Yeah we totally didn’t ‘evolve’ to eat concentrated spice extract. You’re pretty much screwed buddy. Such a shame.

If only we were omnivorous and could cope with a generalist diet, then we wouldnt have these problems.

Oh wait…[/quote]

lol. I like this post.

Still. I stand by my “Shit is shit” argument.

[quote]Xab wrote:
So then, I’m curious: does the standard RD program not include training for sports-related nutrition? Brick, you’ve mentioned specific “sports dietitians.” Do RDs get extra letters after their name for that, or is it more of a focus area?

Also, one last bad dietitian story from personal experience. I don’t have this dietitian’s name on me, but I suppose I could call my aunt up and ask… My aunt has been struggling with weight for a long time, and hired a dietitian. While the diet plan was sound (50/30/20 or so, if I recall), the dietitian specifically ordered my aunt NOT to do any resistance training whatsoever. This came as a shock to her since she already did a lot of pilates. His reason? “You’ll lose more weight that way.” Um, yeah. But who really wants to lose lean mass?

That one really struck me as either incompetence at a very basic level or a blatant, calculated wrongdoing against my aunt that only serves to show a lower number on the scale. A health professional putting a peri-menopausal woman on a program SPECIFICALLY encouraging muscle loss is a scary thought to me. [/quote]

The program at my school added sports nutrition to the Food & Nutrition degree this past year. I’m not sure how many other schools offer it for regular coursework. Those with an interest in sports nutrition can apply to internship programs (the program you complete before you may sit for the RD exam and after - or concurrently with - completion of a bachelor’s degree) that are focused on sports nutrition (some others are medical nutrition therapy, community wellness, and public health). It’s similar to doctors choosing their field of expertise, I suppose. No extra letters to my knowledge.

The RD that advised your aunt - my instructors have always taught us that we should not be dispensing advice beyond the scope of our field and training. I think it’s a big no-no for a RD to be making a specific prescription regarding exercise protocol if that RD has no background/certification/training. Standard nutrition degrees certainly do not cover training at all beyond nutrition. I’m interested to see what Brick has to say on this.

[quote]Xab wrote:
So then, I’m curious: does the standard RD program not include training for sports-related nutrition? Brick, you’ve mentioned specific “sports dietitians.” Do RDs get extra letters after their name for that, or is it more of a focus area?

Also, one last bad dietitian story from personal experience. I don’t have this dietitian’s name on me, but I suppose I could call my aunt up and ask… My aunt has been struggling with weight for a long time, and hired a dietitian. While the diet plan was sound (50/30/20 or so, if I recall), the dietitian specifically ordered my aunt NOT to do any resistance training whatsoever. This came as a shock to her since she already did a lot of pilates. His reason? “You’ll lose more weight that way.” Um, yeah. But who really wants to lose lean mass?

That one really struck me as either incompetence at a very basic level or a blatant, calculated wrongdoing against my aunt that only serves to show a lower number on the scale. A health professional putting a peri-menopausal woman on a program SPECIFICALLY encouraging muscle loss is a scary thought to me. [/quote]

An undergraduate degree in nutrition usually includes one course in exercise physiology. There are nutrition masters programs that have a concentration in exercise - like the one I’m in.

Some take nutrition, become an RD, then get an MS in exercise phys. Some get the Certified Specialist in Sports Dietetics certification (CSSD).

[quote]MODOK wrote:

You are right- shitty food is shitty for you… but your mom told you that when you were 4 years old, right? I know mine did. I sure didn’t need to have some anthropological expert to tell me to eat green vegetables for dinner to be healthy.[/quote]

Agreed. Hence, we’re “not meant” to eat things that are shitty for us.

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I guarantee you that every caveman that ever lived would have been all about him some fucking cocoa puffs.

Why are we aspiring to be so much like a dude that was too fucking stupid to figure out how to milk a cow anyway?[/quote]

This is also the line of thinking that I LIKE. Think of the word EVOLVE and what it means! Why should think in terms of devolution?

Caveman’s life consisted of little more than activities to stay alive and procreate. [/quote]

And Im sure cavemen also did another big no no…combine carbs and fat![/quote]

Probably did while eating nuts, seeds, and fruits at the same meal.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I guarantee you that every caveman that ever lived would have been all about him some fucking cocoa puffs.

Why are we aspiring to be so much like a dude that was too fucking stupid to figure out how to milk a cow anyway?[/quote]

This is also the line of thinking that I LIKE. Think of the word EVOLVE and what it means! Why should think in terms of devolution?

Caveman’s life consisted of little more than activities to stay alive and procreate. [/quote]

And Im sure cavemen also did another big no no…combine carbs and fat![/quote]

Probably did while eating nuts, seeds, and fruits at the same meal. [/quote]

Caveman most likely didn’t eat meals, more likely grazed on plant-based foods as he came across them and occasionally (probably not daily) gorged on raw meat (including brains and organ meat).

So technically, we’re not “meant to eat” meals.

And truthfully, I don’t have a problem with the Paleo eating plan. It’s actually how eat most of the time. I don’t do well physique-wise with a shitload of starch and I just feel better without a lot of them. I reserve my starch intake for post workout.

I don’t eat nearly as big as I used to (I’m sure most of you know my current “stay in shape” goals). But here are my meals for today.

Breakfast
Monster egg white omelet with 2 yolks, cheese, peppers, onions
1 mango

Lunch
Huge salad with blue cheese dressing
6 oz can salmon
1 orange

Snack
Concoction of Greek yogurt, nuts, protein powder, raisins

Workout
Peri-workout shake: Gatorade powder and whey powder

Dinner
mixed veggies
chicken
boiled yucca with some oil, lime and orange juice, and minced garlic

Snack
Protein shake made with pro powder, frozen strawberries, and flax oil

So you can see this is mostly Paleo style. However, this is what works for me, and I don’t dictate that because what I EAT PERSONALLY that grains or higher amounts of starch shouldn’t be consumed by others.