[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
You might feel it more if you lighten the load and do more than three-rep sets.[/quote]
I agree…
[quote]g star 24 7 wrote:
I personally don’t believe in adding considerable weight on Good Mornings,my back feels prone in this position as it is[/quote]
Didn’t really have the time to read this entire post because I have to leave real soon. I will try to respond with a more though response later. But… The good morning is one of the best things you can do for your posterior chain.
It’s been used by strength athletes for a long long time (esp. at westside) for building the bench, squat, and deadlift. If preformed correctly, there is little risk. I heard Louie Simmons of westside few years back saying that the good morning is the primary exercised preformed on max effort days.
He went on to say that he has had people at his facility training good morning for over 20 years and has never had anyone suffer a back injury from doing them. Most of those guys good morning over 600lbs there. By saying you shouldn’t go heavy on good mornings is the same as saying you shouldn’t go heavy on squats.
[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
Well, as you increase the weight on your good mornings, you are going to have, of course, more downward force. Thus, your hamstrings should be less likely to resist because there is more force upon them. Just check out some videos on youtube of people doing good mornings with 400lbs plus.
This should give you an idea of what you should be doing. When you do good mornings, do you place the bar at the base of your neck? If so, try to get the bar place lower on your back. This will allow you to use more weight. More weight used will generally equal muscle fibers stimulated.
This will help on your squats too. Keep your form in check though.
Let us know how it goes.[/quote]
more force, so hamstrings won’t do more work? i think i missed something.
i do place it on my back. like a squat lo bar. how about my stance though? i go maybe a little more than shoulder width and toes pointed slightly out.
also, sometimes when i do them my toes completely come up, even the balls of my feet so i’m kind of on my heels. danger?
i’ve hearda lot of danger about GM’s but i do them because westside does them for max and i wanted to try them out. they’re great!
My toes come up sometimes too. I wouldn’t worry about it.
there is an easy and quick way to check your form and that is to go perform the good morning with your butt turned towards a wall, about 8 to 12 inches away. As you pull your hips back you should hit the wall, if you aren’t hitting the wall you are involving too much of your lower back.
edit: revised the distance from the wall after checking
I used to have a lot of trouble feeling deadlifts in my hamstrings till I read an article on here that said visualize there is a wall behind you and try to get you butt to touch that wall. In other words get you butt back there. This has made a huge difference. You could do it with a wall behind you like Octobergirl says or just pretend.
[quote]kickureface wrote:
more force, so hamstrings won’t do more work? i think i missed something.
i do place it on my back. like a squat lo bar. how about my stance though? i go maybe a little more than shoulder width and toes pointed slightly out.
also, sometimes when i do them my toes completely come up, even the balls of my feet so i’m kind of on my heels. danger?
i’ve hearda lot of danger about GM’s but i do them because westside does them for max and i wanted to try them out. they’re great![/quote]
As I said, the more weight you use, the more of your muscle fibers you are going to recruit. The more muscle fiber you recruit the faster you are going to get stronger and gain size (only if you are eating enough calories).
I do my good mornings sumo stance, just like my squats. It is personal preference. But generally if you’re training westside style you should go sumo. You want to be on your heals on all your lifts (your deadlift, squat, and yes even your bench). This is where your power is. There isn’t any real danger to doing GM IF you keep your low back arched as hard as you can. There is about as much danger to them as doing a squat or deadlift.
If you are going to do them, do them them with weights that cause you to struggle. You will get much more benefit out of any movement if you put 110% into it, but be sure you don’t let your form be sacrificed, as I said.
i’m very excited about GM’s 
they feel great! i didn’t realize they would load the hams so much. and i thought my DL strength went way down since i could barely pull 315…
can anyone clarify RDL vs GM differences?
Same thing, except in a rdl, the bar remains against your legs through the entire movement. In an rdl, you go down till you feel a good stretch in your hams (usually a little past your knees). With a good morning you can go down lower if you so choose.
[quote]kickureface wrote:
i’m very excited about GM’s
they feel great! i didn’t realize they would load the hams so much. and i thought my DL strength went way down since i could barely pull 315…
can anyone clarify RDL vs GM differences?[/quote]
One has the bar in your hands, the other is on your back (GM’s)
[quote]Hanley wrote:
kickureface wrote:
i’m very excited about GM’s
they feel great! i didn’t realize they would load the hams so much. and i thought my DL strength went way down since i could barely pull 315…
can anyone clarify RDL vs GM differences?
One has the bar in your hands, the other is on your back (GM’s)[/quote]
hhaha obviously! but what seems so special about GM’s so westside praises it so much?
is it just the extended range of motion, unless you stand on a box for RDL, of the GM as jake said?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
kickureface wrote:
Hanley wrote:
kickureface wrote:
i’m very excited about GM’s
they feel great! i didn’t realize they would load the hams so much. and i thought my DL strength went way down since i could barely pull 315…
can anyone clarify RDL vs GM differences?
One has the bar in your hands, the other is on your back (GM’s)
hhaha obviously! but what seems so special about GM’s so westside praises it so much?
is it just the extended range of motion, unless you stand on a box for RDL, of the GM as jake said?
Supporting heavy weights on your back (spinal loading) does really cool stuff for you systemically.[/quote]
True stroy. GM’s for sets of 8 with 265lb leave me in MUCH worse condition than RDL’s 110lb heavier for the same reps. I’ve only started with the GM’s recently, but the next day it feels like my entire body has been squished to bits. Serious core overload with them too IME.
Just so you know, a rdl and stiff leg deadlift are different. The only difference that I know of is with a rdl you go to you feel a stretch in your hamstrings. With a stiff leg deadlift you can go to the bar touches your toes if you are standing on a block. The reasons good mornings are used a lot are the following:
- You can use more weight on a good morning
- Often times people fall forward in their squats. A good morning trains the muscles to prevent this
- It helps build your posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes, low back, and even upper back).
- Good mornings leave you sore as shit. I get more sore from good mornings than from any exercise I have ever done.
- Good mornings will make your whole body strong.
- Good mornings work the main muscles groups you use on your bench, squat, and deadlift.
If you look at a lot of the guys at westside squat, they good morning the weight out of the rack and before they squat down, they good morning the weight down.
i learned a lot from this thread, thanks everyone.
i haven’t felt the core squish but that probably is a problem with the weight.
i agree with 2-5.
i think you can do more weight with a DL variant (RDL).
what does gm train for the bench?
i can see the GM/squat hybrid that westsider’s do. isn’t that how most elite pl’ers do it?
Yeah, I could be wrong on that one. I was thinking about stiff leg dl vs good morning. But still, my best good morning is 525 (suspended), and my best stiff leg dl (to toes) is 455x2.
Well, since the GM works your posterior chain, it is going to strengthen your upper back. Also, if you bench press powerlifting style you know that you get a lot out of your bench from leg drive. This being the case, the force from the ground is transferred through your low back to your upper body. Building up your low back strength will surprisingly help you on any lifts that require stabilization (such as standing military press, bent over rows, pullups/chins, and even standing curls). If you are truly interested in training westside style, you should check out eliteFTS.com “basic training” ebook. It is only like 30 something dollars and explains everything about the training. I bought this book myself, and I would say it is worth far more than 30$.
There are a couple guys at my gym who squat over 1000lbs and they always told me the first part of a squat is a good morning. Because to squat the most weight, you want the bar to travel in the straightest line possible. By shooting your hips back and doing a partial good morning in the first part of the squat, you can accomplish that.
i didn’t realize PL’s use ‘leg drive’-i’m getting the image of the ass shooting up. when i bench i never really do any sort of leg drive 0.0.
the PC includes the upper back? i’m guessing the erectors?
wow 1k squat -gyms around here ogle at 315 (LA sucks) 
[quote]kickureface wrote:
i didn’t realize PL’s use ‘leg drive’-i’m getting the image of the ass shooting up. when i bench i never really do any sort of leg drive 0.0.
the PC includes the upper back? i’m guessing the erectors?
wow 1k squat -gyms around here ogle at 315 (LA sucks) :P[/quote]
Well, you want to be driving into the ground with at least as much force to push your ass off the bench, but you want to use a technique that allows you to do so without that happening. If your ass comes off the bench in a powerlifting meet, the lift doesn’t count. I consider the upper back part of the pc because it has so much to do with your posture. Also, if you want to get strong and big, your environment plays a very important role. It is better to find some hardcore gym with guys who actually know a thing or two about lifting. Chances are you’ll reach your goals much faster.