This is something you’ll discover to be very incorrect. What Java version are they teaching? 5 lol?
sorry to have upset you with my badly written code lol
That’s nothing my meaning. It just activates my problem solving brain which isn’t my sleeping brain
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don’t know about that to be honest. they haven’t even mentioned a version yet.
Ask in class!
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I figured. I was playing on the words you used haha
Tss. Anyway for Java motivation I recommend that you read Game Programming Patterns. It’s available online for free. It’s not in Java but rather in C++ but you should be able to implement it all in Java without any real added effort.
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Why do you consider it outdated? What’s, by comparison, a modern language?
What’s a real life situation? What’s a good language for such a situation? Why is Java a bad language for it?
seeing it from my perspective, as somebody who is primarily interested in web development, I can safely say that over the last years (I haven’t been around since the beginning of the internet obviously, but I’ve been on it since 2012, and over the past 8 years I saw a lot of change) java has gone from being used quite a bit in the form of web applets, to disappearing completely. maybe it’s just me, but I don’t recall having seen a java web app anytime in the last couple of years. I haven’t had a browser java extension installed for a long time.
when I started surfing the next, messages asking to enable java on the page were very frequent, as far as I remember.
a modern language is whose use is still very much persistent nowadays. javascript has gone through a lot of evolution, and is virtually everywhere on the internet. I feel python cannot be argued against, either.
there isn’t an absolute or standard definition, but what I mean by real-life situation is one that occurs frequently outside of a school environment. there are many things they don’t teach you about in CS which you need to know about, and many they teach which aren’t needed for most jobs. we did C this year. I learned a lot, but they didn’t teach us about any libraries. how applicable is vanilla C to a sizeable project?
maybe not necessarily a language per se, but rather the way the language is used. I do realize the way a language is taught in a school isn’t indicative of how good the language is, so I didn’t make my point 100% clear, but the point is that, taking a look at the course syllabus, there aren’t plans on doing any specific java libraries or framework that are used in actual project outside of school.
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Maybe it’s not entirely appropriate to make such a generalised statement about it being outdated (period) rather than as far as web-development is concerned Java is outdated. And, you are somewhat correct. As far as user-facing web is concerned Java is indeed dead.
But, you’ll find Java (and especially the JVM which hosts Kotlin, Scala, Clojure, and others) runs as the backend (server-side logic) for many applications whose primary interface is web-based.
If the only way we humans interfaced with software was through our browsers, the following would be a perfect analogy, which would be that if humans were the ocean then web-applications would be the grains of sand that constitute the shoreline and the rest of the beach would be all the other applications that society relies on.
However, I’ll poke a hole in that analogy immediately: Android. Java. Java. Java. All the games, apps, the operating system. All of it: Java. So if this is your definition,
Java is as comparatively as ubiquitous as Python and Javascript, it’s just not as easily perceived and it can be argued that that’s a good thing. The end-user shouldn’t have to care about what the software is made in.
Define sizeable? For one thing, C is perhaps the most ubiquitous language on the planet. Include its descendants (C#, C++) and the “perhaps” can be thrown out the window. Everything that’s embedded will either be written in assembler or C. And there’s so many little technical doodads that applies to. But it can be argued, correctly, that these codebases aren’t necessarily sizeable. To that, I posit Linux as an example of a sizeable codebase in vanilla C that has real-life applications outside of academia and nerdery. C is also very common in medtech, although I’ll acknowledge biotech belongs to Python nowadays.
I’m of the opinion that a CS degree is not a vocational degree. The market needs software developers, not CS-graduates. But the expectation is somehow on upper education to provide the former rather than the latter and everyone is unhappy. Computer Science =/= (or != if you prefer) Software Development/Engineering.
Java dominantes financial technology (trading, banking).
But consider further in what context different language attributes has value. Python and Javascript allows you to iterate quickly, which is great for prototyping but horrible for maintenance. If you are a crew of 4 building a website that has to deal with web-traffic that you gradually amass then that might be fine. What if you are building an application that’ll have a billion requests per day from the very first day you go live, is Python still a good fit?
How about if you are a company of 200 working on a joint product, what language attributes are nice to have then? If it’s a web thing, what demands does that pose? If it’s a real-time physics simulator, what needs does that present?
You’re interested in web, how many iterations has Angular gone through during the time since you developed this interest? Is it sustainable to model university courses around something with such a transient lifetime? Libraries and frameworks that have a long shelf-life (Spring (Java), Boost (C++), …) are rarities, not the rule.
If the university streamlined their teaching towards the sector that you’re interested then society would be bereft of people knowing enough to enter into jobs such as developing pacemakers, router-software, VR-surgery training, AR-simulators for construction, …
The head of the CS department when I started studying devised a technique for in 3D space determining where cancer tumors where from a small amount of MRI images (if I recall correctly, n<5). If the syllabus had focused on modern web (which, at the time, hardly was a thing) would he have had the “raw” foundation to do such a thing?
Not really a part of this convo and haven’t written python in a few years but get some ENV variables working @samul you have a private key exposed in a public repo. Not that it matters much as just a fun side project but it’s definitely a good practice to follow.
I’m sure you’ve answered this somewhere @Voxel but what part of Sweden are you from? I lived in the Stockholm area for like 3.5 years.
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Thank you dude, I definitely missed that
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Wow, hadn’t even opened settings.py yet. Very good suggestion. If you don’t know how @samul, I’m pretty sure it’s covered in Two Scoops of Django! Also recommend testdriven.io to learn pratical lessons around Django.
You’re the first to ask actually. Umeå. Whereabouts are you located nowadays?
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I’m only half shocked nobody has asked, in any case, I didn’t ever make it up there. I had a friend in the program that I went to there who was from Umeå (or maybe Luleå), I could never remember which was which. I’m American, from the Las Vegas area but have lived in Seattle for the last few years.
Typing on the Swedish keyboard reminds me I should read some Swedish so I don’t totally forget it.
Speaking of are there any decent Swedish newspapers that aren’t behind a paywall? DN and SvD both seem to be and I don’t really want to spend $15 a month on either of them.
Can’t really help you out much there other than say that one is the one and the other is the other 
You studied at KTH or SU?
Hm… No? The paywall model has been adopted by essentially everyone. I don’t know you or your political leanings but I’d be remiss if I didn’t highlight that DN has become so politicised that it’s unfathomable that they’ve retained as much of their readership as they’ve. Their editor-in-chief has been becoming increasingly extremist in his views as of late (this year).
I’m not really sure what content you are after, if I was trying to keep up with a language I’d like for there to be the occassional longer cohesive texts and I don’t know where to direct you for that as far as news outlets go. But if you just want tidbits of news in Swedish I’d suggest omni.se.
In all honesty I’m really bad at consuming Swedish media myself, but maybe some Swedish podcasts or blogs would scratch that itch of yours? Or Swedish Twitter (i.e. follow some swedes)
@kdjohn what resources did you end up settling for?
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SU, got accepted into Försvarshögskolan for a one year program but opted for the 2 year program at SU (masterprogram i statvetenskap) that I never ended up finishing my thesis for…
I don’t even know how I lean in Swedish politics anymore, haven’t paid much mind to them since I left in late 2014. The very unfortunate rise of SD and the fall of the Moderatarna was the last bit I paid attention to. I just looked this up, but how the hell are both Åkesson and Löfven still around?
I’ll check out omni and if you have any blogs or relatively light novels that you recommend I’d like to check them out.
What are your interests? I’ll reply tomorrow!
I just keep chugging away on Duolingo. It’s far from perfect, especially because you either have to look up grammar rules yourself or just infer them, but it’s given me enough (with a little outside study) to understand a fair amount.
My buddy at work also sends me Aftenbladet articles sometimes. Which are hilarious, but it allows me to practice translating fairly simple sentences.
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Oh my, just imagining myself squatting that wide is painful! But if it works for you, then by all means
I don’t consider myself a coding fiend, but anecdotally I and many of my peers would also say Java is outdated. I can imagine it depends on the application.