Nordic Blood: Climbing And Lifting / Lifting And Climbing

:joy: I’m a surprised power screamer, I don’t even know when it’ll happen. I do a very British muffled apology after.

There’s a method called 4x4 for pump work. Find 4 bouldering problems that are tricky but well below your level. Do one after the other with no rest. If you get the level right the pump kicks in horribly. The 4th should cause some whimpering.

1 Like

I love that, I’m way more familiar with the boulders so that’s a nice finisher for my next session! That’s been my limiter on lead recently, not being able to climb through the pump (or not being able to climb around injury because the route doesn’t allow a workaround)

Heels elevated, pronounced ā€œpainā€
Heels flat, fine
Jumps OK
Hold, better than yesterday
Heels elevated, less pain
Jumps OK

So, continue with holds as rehab?

With tendinopathy is it best to avoid any aggrevation? My plan for today is bench as the main lift, and high-bar squats as assistance and the latter will not necessarily make things work but will almost ensuredly elicit the sensation. Might be able to do something else like a belt squat strip set to hit my quads without any sensation whatsoever.

1 Like

Those test results are classic tendinopathy, which is good because it’s easier to manage

Yeah, pretty much like how I described in the post that I linked. However, because this is pretty new/acute you may not need to go all the way to 2-3 holds, 2-3 times a day just yet.

That sort of depends. After your holds, go ahead and train as normal for this week at least. Expect and be prepared to train through 4-5/10 pain, as this is probably necessary to improve the tendon resiliency but if your tendon feels like shit tomorrow, back the volume off next session.

Since you mentioned that it wasn’t your lifting volume that changed recently, but your weighted walking volume, it’s likely that reducing that walking volume for now will help more than changing your lifting program.

So, do not change your lifting for now because it’s unlikely that the lifting was responsible for aggravating the tendon. Additionally, tendons need heavy resistance training to stay strong and resilient

Thank you!

Is using a heated… wheat pillow a good idea? Massaging the area? Any high-rep band leg extensions?

Apologies, I missed this one. I have very little to add though, honestly. I didn’t know what a spray wall was and I’ve never really trained on one.

It’s also worth noting that at the time I was climbing, I had a very teenage view of what getting better meant. So my approach to making a route more fun would be stupid challenges that aren’t conducive to actual improvement. Think time limits or limiting the number of holds you can use, feet on features only (depending on the style of the wall), or even better, hands on features only (if the wall is slabby enough).

1 Like

Eh, it could help numb the pain, but it isn’t going to be effective at helping fix the issue itself (which is load management and maybe tendon resiliency)

Unlikely to help

Yes, this could help, but isometrics and heavy lifting are number 1 for effectiveness

My ideas stem from what I’ve heard about helping tendons in the hand recoup which is the blood circulation is poor so you try and stimulate it to make it heal quicker. Maybe this is just bro-science from the climbing world.

1 Like

Look, heat could potentially help, but I doubt it’s due to increased circulation. Pathological tendons are actually more vascular than healthy tendons and will usually have more water and less collagen. The collagen they do have is more disorganised. This is why there’s such an emphasis on loading in PT management, as we want to provide a stimulus that promotes collagen deposition and alignment.

Again, feel free to use heat because it is pretty unlikely to make your condition significantly worse. If it helps, go ahead and use it, but it isn’t going to be the linchpin for you

Cool, I appreciate the reply. Trying to learn more just in case I pick something up that’s backwards applicable to tendon stuff in climbing which for the hands have traditionally focused more on ensuring that the tissue can heal on its own. Strength training is usually delayed to week 8 or 12 depending on the severity. Oddly, with things like climber’s elbow we set out with strength work far quicker. But then again, climber’s elbow is fairly mild meanwhile grabbing something after a pulley strain might feel like grabbing a hot plate out of the oven so :woman_shrugging:

1 Like

I truly appreciate the opportunity to discuss.

I wonder if some of the reason why strength training for fingers isn’t used to help with tendinopathy is the fingers is due to the massive workload already required of your hands/forearms for climbing. I imaging it wouls be fairly easy to overload the fingers. Also, i wonder if, given the huge amount of sensory nerve endings in the hands, interventions like heat and massage (which help by providing ascending sensory information that ā€œcalmsā€ the system) are more effective with the hands than the knees and heel

Yeah I’d imagine this is a key factor as well, since the pulleys can experience true tears/ruptures far more easily than the patellar or Achilles tendons, which is where the pro-isometric and loading literature comes from

I’ve tried studying this from a historical perspective and climbing training and rehab is still somewhat in its infancy I would argue, it’s only fairly recently where it’s considered more of an athletic pursuit and it’s had periods where training in addition to simply climbing more was even frowned upon.

The old advice that was given for finger injuries was, take three months off, try and climb, if it still hurts, take three more months off. Which certainly isn’t ideal. There presumably needs to be a period during the acute stage where you must unload the tissue completely, but it’s not entirely clear how long that period should be.

What can be difficult, depending on the gym you go to or whatever your home-setup is, is loading the finger flexors and the pulley tendons in a safe and controlled manner. Some people will be blessed and have a counterweight system to not start their rehab using the full brunt of their own bodyweight but that’s not something that’s accessible to everyone.

I imagine for a long time, as it becomes very easy to focus on the activity you feel that you can’t do that strength training for the fingers was only viewed as actively climbing or doing what’s known as hangboarding/fingerboarding and one missed that rice buckets and resistance bands are a progression that precedes that.

The latter two can be started significantly earlier, speaking from experience.

1 Like

I mean, you can always do isometricsfor the finger pulleys, just by pressing your finger into a table/wall/your own palm at a 4-6/10 pain level for 30-45s, which I’m actually starting to see more of from clinicians like David Grey

1 Like

I’ll check him out, that’s interesting.

1 Like

Wednesday 2020-09-30

Weight: 76.4 kg

I was wrong, it wasn’t bench + high-bar today but deadlifts and press.

Exercise Set Reps Weight Rest Tempo Notes
A. Deadlift -3 10 60 short Normal
-2 6 90 short
-1 4 130 moderate
0 1 140 moderate
1 3 150 3-5m (work sets) Felt heavy
2 3 150 Feeling persisted
3 3 140 Great workweight
4 3 140 math isn’t end-all/be all
5 6-7 140 Zoned out on the rep count
B. Log Press 1 10 Nothing 2-3m Normal
2 10 5/s
3 10 5/s To failure (unplanned)
C. T-bar Row 1 15 40 60-90s
2 15 40
3 13 40 To failure
Exercise Sets & Reps
D1. V-up 2x8-12
D2. Seated Knee Tuck 2xAMRAP
D2. Swiss-ball Crunch 2xAMRAP

Had thought to do 2/1 on leg curl but I spent so much time on my bike today I didn’t feel like my hams needed the stimulus.

Did 20 minutes of yin yoga for a cool down.

Had pancakes with blueberries, cottage cheese and some home-made ice-cream leftover from my B-day (a friend brought it). Didn’t feel like that was enough so I had a sandwich with Smokey Chipotle cream cheese after

6 Likes

My brain must operate at like 12000RPM. Was asked for tv-show recommendations, I’m not even an active viewer anymore. 20 hand-selected suggestions within two minutes. Also twenty separate texts lol. Hyper?

Lots of cool stuff, but it can be a bit inaccessible and the learning curve is super steep. If you wanna shoot me a DM through instagram ( @the.podium.performance ) I can send you a presentation he did a couple months back. Warning though, the presentation has got very little on upper-limb stuff, and is mostly focussed on foot and knee health

Yeah, I have a friend there shudders

1 Like

Not on Instagram! Appreciate the offer!

1 Like

Right call, started having DOMS even before falling asleep. All through my posterior chain.