[quote]lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
I would not say you hated jews if you used the same level of judgment for the other countries over there but you dont, you single out Israel.
You sir, have apparently never heard my views on the USA or any other Arab country’s government.[/quote]
Maybe beacause the only time you mention your views on other Arab countries… is in moments like this. “I have to justify my critique of Israel”.
I have, you praise the arab governments but hate America and Israel. you will say they do some stuff bad, but then justify there actions against America because you see it as the great evil.
[quote]lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
What I want to know is why Lixy hates Jews
We’ve been over this one ad nauseaum. What is it gonna take to clear my name from this accusation? And since when is denouncing oppressive and violent behaviour of a state interpreted as a form of hate against the religion of the majority of its inhabitants? It’d be like someone calling you a Buddhist-hater for criticizing the Chinese government or a Muslim-hater for criticizing the backwardness of Saudi Arabia.
For what it’s worth, my role-model is a Jew. I’ll let you guess who it is…[/quote]
True Islam advocates violence, is political in nature, embraces dominance, tortures its own followers. Lixy if you were honest with yourself, or those on this thread, you would admit “true” Islam does not contain a seed of tolerance for other belief systems… Certainly not towards Jews. Not as taught by that prophet of yours.
That bit about your role model being a Jew was hillarious. Isn’t that what us infidels refer to as “Taqiyya?” I’d love to see you get loose with that nugget of bullshit at your local mosque. I’m sure they would marvel at your choice of role models vs. cutting your head off…
[quote]lixy wrote:
For what it’s worth, my role-model is a Jew. I’ll let you guess who it is…[/quote]
Ariel Sharon?
[quote]John S. wrote:
I have, you praise the arab governments but hate America and Israel. you will say they do some stuff bad, but then justify there actions against America because you see it as the great evil.[/quote]
Wrong. All Arab governments are composed of scumbags, be they the illegitimate dictators in over 90% of them or the democratically elected Islamists that showed up in Lebanon, Palestine or previously in Algeria.
I see America as a (as opposed to the) great evil because of its history of interventionism and its hundreds of bases around the world.
I have nothing against the existence of Israel but am appaled by its conduct towards the indigenous people of the region. That is what denounce and, like it or not, I’m not the only one to perceive its overly excessive use of gratuitous violence.
Peace,
So you hate Israel because it protects itself, remember these arnt normal people attacking israel these retards think they will get 72 virgins if they blow there ass up and kill a bunch of Jews. Or are the Jews not aloud to attack back? should they just be the arabs bitches?
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
True Islam advocates violence, is political in nature, embraces dominance, tortures its own followers. Lixy if you were honest with yourself, or those on this thread, you would admit “true” Islam does not contain a seed of tolerance for other belief systems… Certainly not towards Jews. Not as taught by that prophet of yours. [/quote]
I’m not gonna dwell again into how you are totally mistaken and don’t know shit about Islam. Instead, since you seem convinced by whoever told you that like, let’s have a more constructive talk.
For the sake of argument, let us assume that you are right. Two possibilities exist then: Either we (I’ll speak for all the Muslims on the forum) have been duped into adopting a religion that advocates violence without our knowledge, or we are all lying and conceiling that it advocates torture, dominance and all the other things you accuse it of. Which in you opinion is it?
P.S: I’m solely interested in Tokaya’s take on it.
So, what do you think about the scholars, the imams of Oslo, that justifies violence against Kadra…? The imams that justifies violence against homosexuals…? Are they … wrong? Don’t they understand the koran…? 
Do we have a little swedish expert here… defying all these scholars…? Do you think that islam should allow homosexual imams? Female imams…?
Islam IS problematic in today’s society, you can refuse to realize this, or you can suggest ways to better it… 
[quote]Adamsson wrote:
So, what do you think about the scholars, the imams of Oslo, that justifies violence against Kadra…? The imams that justifies violence against homosexuals…? Are they … wrong? Don’t they understand the koran…? Do we have a little swedish expert here… defying all these scholars…? Do you think that islam should allow homosexual imams? Female imams…?
Islam IS problematic in today’s society, you can refuse to realize this, or you can suggest ways to better it… :)[/quote]
Christianity has been so twisted and fucked with by the church, it’s not much of a wonder that some guy in Sweden has Islam more right than the Imams.
Christian scholars used to tell us that Christ would approve of slavery, sexual discrimination, and random burnings of Jews (of whcih he was one).
I think a book (Bible/Koran) can have some fucked up shit, but still ahve a good core message.
And everyone, read the Koran before you badmouth Islam. Even though its hard to get the same feel if you can’t read/speak Arabic (or so I’m told by my Islamic friends), it’s an amazingly fascinating book. And shorter than the bible too
I’m not finished with it, but from what I’m reading, there’s not much difference between it and the more orthodox sects of Christianity. A bit of basic mindset differences, but overall, a lot of the basic message is the same.
Still, Lixy, you have to start bad mouthing the radical Muslim leaders more, if you’d like to gain some credability on these forums.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
I’m not finished with it, but from what I’m reading, there’s not much difference between it and the more orthodox sects of Christianity. A bit of basic mindset differences, but overall, a lot of the basic message is the same.
[/quote]
Except, of course, the fact that the Orthodox Christians don’t seem to try to make political points by blowing up office buildings, nail-bombing internet cafes, and beheading the families of people that disagree (or don’t agree totally).
If Radical Muslims acted like the Orthodox Christians today, instead of the Catholic Inquisition 600 years ago, this would be a nice intellectual debate. Instead, we can regularly see modern imams brandishing swords, chanting death to America/Christians/ Jews, and urging worshippers to acts of mayhem and murder.
On what planet does this constitute a “basic mindset difference?” When was the last time you remember going to the local conservative methodist church, and hearing the pastor talk about how you should blow up your neighbor’s children’s schoolbus because he is a Muslim?
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Christianity has been so twisted and fucked with by the church, it’s not much of a wonder that some guy in Sweden has Islam more right than the Imams.
Christian scholars used to tell us that Christ would approve of slavery, sexual discrimination, and random burnings of Jews (of whcih he was one).
I think a book (Bible/Koran) can have some fucked up shit, but still ahve a good core message.
And everyone, read the Koran before you badmouth Islam. Even though its hard to get the same feel if you can’t read/speak Arabic (or so I’m told by my Islamic friends), it’s an amazingly fascinating book. And shorter than the bible too
I’m not finished with it, but from what I’m reading, there’s not much difference between it and the more orthodox sects of Christianity. A bit of basic mindset differences, but overall, a lot of the basic message is the same.
Still, Lixy, you have to start bad mouthing the radical Muslim leaders more, if you’d like to gain some credability on these forums.[/quote]
As soon as I saw your picture, I knew you were going to jump in and start pointing fingers at Christianity again.
Beowulf, it is 2007. Not 1264.
For the last generation (at the absolute least), anytime some nut has done something evil in the name of Jesus or Christianity, you have nearly every single Christian on the planet screaming bloody murder, denouncing the act.
There are countless acts of evil done in the name of Allah and Islam, yet all you hear from “mainstream” Muslims is deafening, thunderous silence.
If you want to bring up evils done in the name of Christ 800 years ago, go right ahead. One religion has stopped acting barbarous. One has not. They are not equal.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Adamsson wrote:
So, what do you think about the scholars, the imams of Oslo, that justifies violence against Kadra…? The imams that justifies violence against homosexuals…? Are they … wrong? Don’t they understand the koran…? Do we have a little swedish expert here… defying all these scholars…? Do you think that islam should allow homosexual imams? Female imams…?
Islam IS problematic in today’s society, you can refuse to realize this, or you can suggest ways to better it…
Christianity has been so twisted and fucked with by the church, it’s not much of a wonder that some guy in Sweden has Islam more right than the Imams.
Christian scholars used to tell us that Christ would approve of slavery, sexual discrimination, and random burnings of Jews (of whcih he was one).
I think a book (Bible/Koran) can have some fucked up shit, but still ahve a good core message.
And everyone, read the Koran before you badmouth Islam. Even though its hard to get the same feel if you can’t read/speak Arabic (or so I’m told by my Islamic friends), it’s an amazingly fascinating book. And shorter than the bible too
I’m not finished with it, but from what I’m reading, there’s not much difference between it and the more orthodox sects of Christianity. A bit of basic mindset differences, but overall, a lot of the basic message is the same.
Still, Lixy, you have to start bad mouthing the radical Muslim leaders more, if you’d like to gain some credability on these forums.[/quote]
I have read the koran… AND the bible… the problem is that you don’t have a reformation inside Islam. Ofcourse you have different schools of interpretation, but the koran isn’t open to personal interpretation in any way similar to the way the bible is open for interpretation.
Even in modern countries like norway, the Imams refuse to let the members of the community interpret the koran themselves… and don’t even get me started on the secondary texts… The comparison between Islam and Christianity is fair, as long as it is Islam anno 2007 and Christianity anno 1350…
[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
One religion has stopped acting barbarous. One has not. They are not equal.
[/quote]
No on could have said it better. Well stated.
And there is a reason for this “inequality” - instead of the usual “Christians once did mean things to people some 800 years ago”, why not ask what has caused the “inequality”?
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
A
Christianity has been so twisted and fucked with by the church, it’s not much of a wonder that some guy in Sweden has Islam more right than the Imams.
Christian scholars used to tell us that Christ would approve of slavery, sexual discrimination, and random burnings of Jews (of whcih he was one).
[/quote]
Please point me to these scholars. I’d love to read there stuff. I am so sick of the love your neighbor crap. I need some good old fashion Christian hate.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
True Islam advocates violence, is political in nature, embraces dominance, tortures its own followers. Lixy if you were honest with yourself, or those on this thread, you would admit “true” Islam does not contain a seed of tolerance for other belief systems… Certainly not towards Jews. Not as taught by that prophet of yours.
I’m not gonna dwell again into how you are totally mistaken and don’t know shit about Islam. Instead, since you seem convinced by whoever told you that like, let’s have a more constructive talk.
For the sake of argument, let us assume that you are right. Two possibilities exist then: Either we (I’ll speak for all the Muslims on the forum) have been duped into adopting a religion that advocates violence without our knowledge, or we are all lying and conceiling that it advocates torture, dominance and all the other things you accuse it of. Which in you opinion is it?
P.S: I’m solely interested in Tokaya’s take on it.[/quote]
Lixy,
What do you base your assertion that I don’t know shit about Islam on? Every once in a while, I call you out on your horseshit (“I’m going to Sudan to see for myself this summer what is really happening”). Or in one post you cited the war in Afghanistan was legitimate, then in the next, the soldiers fighting the taliban over there, are “just as bad as terrorists”…
You are obviously in denial about the carnage meted out on a daily basis by those who claim to adhere to that religion. “Tiny minority” or not, this small group of “bad apples” as you refer to them have seemingly with relative ease gotten the “moderates” to stand on the sidelines while they wreak havoc on the rest of the world. I don’t trust apologists like you or organizations such as CAIR…
Folks like you spend too much time whining about Imams getting thrown off planes in Minneapolis, or episodes of 24 portraying middle eastern men participating in terror plots, than you do confronting the unsavory facts about the state of your religion.
When you or other Islamist says ?peaceful religion?, you mean a religion whose ultimate goal is peace upon earth - when all non-believers submit to it. ?Islam? does not translate to ?peace? as some people falsely believe.
Its meaning is ?submission;? - that is, submission to Allah and to Islam, of all peoples of the earth. Look at the violence these islamofacists are propogating all over the world, UK, Spain, Thailand, Somalia, Sudan, Kashmir, Bangladesh, the Philippines,
This is the mission of Islam - using violence against non-believers to achieve that goal is absolutely condoned and is a stated legitimate tenet of Islam.
I’m not fooled by folks like you. Folks - irrespective of their position on the war in Iraq - are slowly waking up to the threat of radical islam.
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
Folks like you spend too much time whining about Imams getting thrown off planes in Minneapolis, or episodes of 24 portraying middle eastern men participating in terror plots, than you do confronting the unsavory facts about the state of your religion.
When you or other Islamist says ?peaceful religion?, you mean a religion whose ultimate goal is peace upon earth - when all non-believers submit to it. ?Islam? does not translate to ?peace? as some people falsely believe.
Its meaning is ?submission;? - that is, submission to Allah and to Islam, of all peoples of the earth. Look at the violence these islamofacists are propogating all over the world, UK, Spain, Thailand, Somalia, Sudan, Kashmir, Bangladesh, the Philippines,
This is the mission of Islam - using violence against non-believers to achieve that goal is absolutely condoned and is a stated legitimate tenet of Islam.
I’m not fooled by folks like you. Folks - irrespective of their position on the war in Iraq - are slowly waking up to the threat of radical islam.
[/quote]
Holy Shit, Word Up! Well said!
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
lixy wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
True Islam advocates violence, is political in nature, embraces dominance, tortures its own followers. Lixy if you were honest with yourself, or those on this thread, you would admit “true” Islam does not contain a seed of tolerance for other belief systems… Certainly not towards Jews. Not as taught by that prophet of yours.
I’m not gonna dwell again into how you are totally mistaken and don’t know shit about Islam. Instead, since you seem convinced by whoever told you that like, let’s have a more constructive talk.
For the sake of argument, let us assume that you are right. Two possibilities exist then: Either we (I’ll speak for all the Muslims on the forum) have been duped into adopting a religion that advocates violence without our knowledge, or we are all lying and conceiling that it advocates torture, dominance and all the other things you accuse it of. Which in you opinion is it?
P.S: I’m solely interested in Tokaya’s take on it.
Lixy,
What do you base your assertion that I don’t know shit about Islam on? Every once in a while, I call you out on your horseshit (“I’m going to Sudan to see for myself this summer what is really happening”). Or in one post you cited the war in Afghanistan was legitimate, then in the next, the soldiers fighting the taliban over there, are “just as bad as terrorists”…
You are obviously in denial about the carnage meted out on a daily basis by those who claim to adhere to that religion. “Tiny minority” or not, this small group of “bad apples” as you refer to them have seemingly with relative ease gotten the “moderates” to stand on the sidelines while they wreak havoc on the rest of the world. I don’t trust apologists like you or organizations such as CAIR…
Folks like you spend too much time whining about Imams getting thrown off planes in Minneapolis, or episodes of 24 portraying middle eastern men participating in terror plots, than you do confronting the unsavory facts about the state of your religion.
When you or other Islamist says ?peaceful religion?, you mean a religion whose ultimate goal is peace upon earth - when all non-believers submit to it. ?Islam? does not translate to ?peace? as some people falsely believe.
Its meaning is ?submission;? - that is, submission to Allah and to Islam, of all peoples of the earth. Look at the violence these islamofacists are propogating all over the world, UK, Spain, Thailand, Somalia, Sudan, Kashmir, Bangladesh, the Philippines,
This is the mission of Islam - using violence against non-believers to achieve that goal is absolutely condoned and is a stated legitimate tenet of Islam.
I’m not fooled by folks like you. Folks - irrespective of their position on the war in Iraq - are slowly waking up to the threat of radical islam. [/quote]
We all know your position on Islam. I wanted your opinion on something eles. You dodged it with your usual ranting about how Islam advocates violence and the usual speech. So, I’ll ask again (in bold this time):
For the sake of argument, let us assume that you are right. Two possibilities exist then: Either we (I’ll speak for all the Muslims on the forum) have been duped into adopting a religion that advocates violence without our knowledge, or we are all lying and conceiling that it advocates torture, dominance and all the other things you accuse it of. Which in you opinion is it?
Can I get an answer please?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
lixy wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
True Islam advocates violence, is political in nature, embraces dominance, tortures its own followers. Lixy if you were honest with yourself, or those on this thread, you would admit “true” Islam does not contain a seed of tolerance for other belief systems… Certainly not towards Jews. Not as taught by that prophet of yours.
I’m not gonna dwell again into how you are totally mistaken and don’t know shit about Islam. Instead, since you seem convinced by whoever told you that like, let’s have a more constructive talk.
For the sake of argument, let us assume that you are right. Two possibilities exist then: Either we (I’ll speak for all the Muslims on the forum) have been duped into adopting a religion that advocates violence without our knowledge, or we are all lying and conceiling that it advocates torture, dominance and all the other things you accuse it of. Which in you opinion is it?
P.S: I’m solely interested in Tokaya’s take on it.
Lixy,
What do you base your assertion that I don’t know shit about Islam on? Every once in a while, I call you out on your horseshit (“I’m going to Sudan to see for myself this summer what is really happening”). Or in one post you cited the war in Afghanistan was legitimate, then in the next, the soldiers fighting the taliban over there, are “just as bad as terrorists”…
You are obviously in denial about the carnage meted out on a daily basis by those who claim to adhere to that religion. “Tiny minority” or not, this small group of “bad apples” as you refer to them have seemingly with relative ease gotten the “moderates” to stand on the sidelines while they wreak havoc on the rest of the world. I don’t trust apologists like you or organizations such as CAIR…
Folks like you spend too much time whining about Imams getting thrown off planes in Minneapolis, or episodes of 24 portraying middle eastern men participating in terror plots, than you do confronting the unsavory facts about the state of your religion.
When you or other Islamist says ?peaceful religion?, you mean a religion whose ultimate goal is peace upon earth - when all non-believers submit to it. ?Islam? does not translate to ?peace? as some people falsely believe.
Its meaning is ?submission;? - that is, submission to Allah and to Islam, of all peoples of the earth. Look at the violence these islamofacists are propogating all over the world, UK, Spain, Thailand, Somalia, Sudan, Kashmir, Bangladesh, the Philippines,
This is the mission of Islam - using violence against non-believers to achieve that goal is absolutely condoned and is a stated legitimate tenet of Islam.
I’m not fooled by folks like you. Folks - irrespective of their position on the war in Iraq - are slowly waking up to the threat of radical islam.
We all know your position on Islam. I wanted your opinion on something eles. You dodged it with your usual ranting about how Islam advocates violence and the usual speech. So, I’ll ask again (in bold this time):
For the sake of argument, let us assume that you are right. Two possibilities exist then: Either we (I’ll speak for all the Muslims on the forum) have been duped into adopting a religion that advocates violence without our knowledge, or we are all lying and conceiling that it advocates torture, dominance and all the other things you accuse it of. Which in you opinion is it?
Can I get an answer please?[/quote]
A christian father from south-western USA got interviewed about why he refused to let his daughter get an abortion after she was the victim of a rape… He said, and meant it: “beacause I love her”…
In his head, within his frame of reference, a life of physical, mental and economical strain on the girl was NOTHING… compared to the hell she was going to if she went trough with the abortion…
Most people would cry “HE IS EVIL!!”… but no, he isn’t evil… he infact DIT it beacause he loved her… just as violent christians in the year 1030 with sword in hand tried to convert vikings in Norway… Ofcourse, some of it was powerplay, some of it was intrigues… but some of it was also out of LOVE…
Many muslims today do violent things… commit horrible acts of terror, but not beacause they want to do the wrong thing and are wilfully evil, but beacause they think they are on god’s side… they think they do the right thing. They have a higher good to fight for…
[quote]ChuckyT wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
I’m not finished with it, but from what I’m reading, there’s not much difference between it and the more orthodox sects of Christianity. A bit of basic mindset differences, but overall, a lot of the basic message is the same.
Except, of course, the fact that the Orthodox Christians don’t seem to try to make political points by blowing up office buildings, nail-bombing internet cafes, and beheading the families of people that disagree (or don’t agree totally).
If Radical Muslims acted like the Orthodox Christians today, instead of the Catholic Inquisition 600 years ago, this would be a nice intellectual debate. Instead, we can regularly see modern imams brandishing swords, chanting death to America/Christians/ Jews, and urging worshippers to acts of mayhem and murder.
On what planet does this constitute a “basic mindset difference?” When was the last time you remember going to the local conservative methodist church, and hearing the pastor talk about how you should blow up your neighbor’s children’s schoolbus because he is a Muslim?
[/quote]
You know Islam is about 600 years behind Christianity chronologically, right? And while the Christians were out being fucked up, the Muslims were the ones shaking their heads at the barbarism of it all?
I’m just saying that the religion itself isn’t inherently evil. Being Muslim doesn’t make you evil, radical indoctrination does.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
One religion has stopped acting barbarous. One has not. They are not equal.
No on could have said it better. Well stated.
And there is a reason for this “inequality” - instead of the usual “Christians once did mean things to people some 800 years ago”, why not ask what has caused the “inequality”?[/quote]
Islam became barorous. Originally, it was much more civilized than the western world of Christianity.
And I’m NOT saying that the Islamic extremism today is acceptable. It is NOT.
Like I said before, I’m just stating that being Islamic does not make one evil, just like being Christian doesn’t make one evil.
And before Luther and Newton (and arguably Guttenburg), the Bible WAS NOT open for interpretation, because no one learned to read the damn thing. So that argument is shot.