[quote]50_Caliber wrote:
Also, I didn’t see a single pic of him holding a shoe. (epic thread reference)[/quote]
He ate it mid-way through the study.
oh well if he says so then it must be true
Here’s a simple, rational explanation: couldn’t Jani have trained himself to become very efficient at fasting, through simply having had a lifetime of practice?
It is possible to build up tolerances to poisons over time, couldn’t he have gradually developed a ‘tolerance’ to fluid deprivation?
I know ‘the experts’ say that he couldn’t have survived for ten days, but aren’t they basing that on cases in which people are suddenly and completely deprived of liquid, having never been in that situation before?
Think of it like a smoker being able to survive a dose of nicotine that would be fatal to a non-smoker…
[quote]roybot wrote:
Here’s a simple, rational explanation: couldn’t Jani have trained himself to become very efficient at fasting, through simply having had a lifetime of practice?
It is possible to build up tolerances to poisons over time, couldn’t he have gradually developed a ‘tolerance’ to fluid deprivation?
I know ‘the experts’ say that he couldn’t have survived for ten days, but aren’t they basing that on cases in which people are suddenly and completely deprived of liquid, having never been in that situation before?
Think of it like a smoker being able to survive a dose of nicotine that would be fatal to a non-smoker…[/quote]
At this point, I believe this is very much a possibility…which is why I don’t understand all of the responses as if nothing here is worth looking into.
People that quick to blow off everything that challenges what they believe to be true are the very reason for the lack of progression of science.
REAL scientists are not afraid to ask difficult questions…even if they fly in the face of what is believed to be true.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Let me also say this since I haven’t been keeping up with this thread until now…are people that afraid to think outside the box that the simple question into whether this is real or not causes them to act like anyone who entertains the thought is insane or too dumb to hold a medical degree of any kind?
What is funny is this attitude seems to most often come from people who are the least educated.
The hoax here is likely. That doesn’t mean that even if it was ONLY 10 days that this isn’t significant. I would think the dummies are the ones who can’t figure that out and immediately turn a blind eye to the whole situation.
I personally wouldn’t want a doctor working on me who was so locked into one mode of thinking. This is why we go through continuing education after we graduate…because what you DO NOT want is a doctor working on you who is still using the same techniques and practices from 30 years ago.
Common sense seems to be dead just as much as being able to think outside of a very limited box.[/quote]
X 10,000
[quote]roybot wrote:
Here’s a simple, rational explanation: couldn’t Jani have trained himself to become very efficient at fasting, through simply having had a lifetime of practice?
It is possible to build up tolerances to poisons over time, couldn’t he have gradually developed a ‘tolerance’ to fluid deprivation?
I know ‘the experts’ say that he couldn’t have survived for ten days, but aren’t they basing that on cases in which people are suddenly and completely deprived of liquid, having never been in that situation before?
Think of it like a smoker being able to survive a dose of nicotine that would be fatal to a non-smoker…[/quote]
I think this is a reasonable explanation IF what they claim is true, he could’ve also stayed in a meditative state, possibly lowering his heart rate over this period of time and significantly lowering his demand for any sustenance.
REAL scientists are not afraid to be called foolish but they fear of being fooled
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]50_Caliber wrote:
The possible explanations I can think of, applying Occam’s Razor:
-
The doctor’s are in on it and wanted to generate publicity for themselves.
-
The doctor’s are easily fooled, the old dude simple sipped some water smuggled underneath his robes or didn’t see it when someone walked into the room and gave him food and water.
-
They’re not even real doctors and it’s a simple publicity stunt.
-
The guy has supernatural powers and truly posseses god-like powers.
I’m favoring the top 3 myself…
[/quote]
…OR, he actually made it ten whole days without dying with nothing to eat or drink.
We have half of the country who believe Jesus did the same for 40 days in a desert yet suddenly the very idea that a man could do it for 10 days causes cries of “stupid” to be yelled across the aisle.
No one is even debating the “72 year” claim.
Let’s see where the debate goes now.[/quote]
Those same people believe in talking snakes and parting oceans.
Let be realistic here, while it MIGHT be possible, the chances of it being a reality are very, very slim. Maybe after training himself through fasting for the past 50 years, as mentioned earlier, he can go without food or water for 10 days because his body has become used to storing nutrients and partitioning energy that is years more efficient than that of what every day people are used to. Even that is a ridiculous stretch, but ok.
But to do the same for a month? A year? 10 years?
Not a chance. There are basic things we cannot live without.
People all over the world making outlandish claims, but whenever they are asked to prove them for the world to see, they cannot. Just ask James Randi.
[quote]Ronsauce wrote:
He lost weight. After only 10 days. How does he still exist after 72 years of this if he loses weight after 10 days? I mean without being a dirty cheater that is.
[quote]The rest of your post
[/quote]
lol
Maybe the 4th dimension has good butter chicken.[/quote]
Irrelevant. There’s been no breakdown in organ tissue, and he hasn’t gone to the toilet, so where would he be getting his energy? We’re dealing with a breakthrough here. Like I said I doubt he’s gone for 72 years without any food or water, thats a bit of a stretch, but he obviously has a certain mastery over his body when it comes to inhibiting his hunger and thirst, and for that reason he should continue to be studied.
lool wouldn’t it be hilarious if he did end up getting his “power” from a goddess? The entire scientific community would end up crapping their pants
Also keep in mind that there is no way possible to verify claims of going 72 years without food or water, he didn’t have medical doctors monitoring him every second for 72 years.
It sounds like he deliberately made that claim because it couldn’t be verified, strange how that works…
can anyone find the world record for going the longest amount of time without water?
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Fasting fakir flummoxes physicians this link is from 2003
From Dr. Sudhir Shah and Prahlad Jani - Skeptimedia - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
Dr. Sudhir Shah and Prahlad Jani
The logo to the left indicates the source of the story this post begins with. FOX, being fair and balanced, got the story from The Sun, the fair and balanced tabloid from the UK. The story begins: “An Indian holy man has amazed a team of doctors by not eating or drinking anything for two weeks.” To be fair and balanced: this story is all over the Internet.
I wrote about this “holy man,” Prahlad Jani, in my last newsletter. He claims he hasn’t eaten or drunk anything for over 70 years. About six years ago, Jani pulled this same publicity stunt and it was reported by the BBC. In 2003, Jani and his promoters, led by Dr. Sudhir Shah, were debunked by Sanal Edamaruku of the Indian Rationalist Association.
“The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the NASA have obviously been taken in by the absurd claims of a village fraud,” wrote Sanal Edamaruku, Secretary General of the Indian Rationalist Association, in a letter to the Indian Defense Minister George Fernandes. "It is shocking to see that government officials and scientists are so gullible to believe that a human being can survive 60 years without food and water!
The claim does not only contradict experience and common sense, but also our well-established biological and medical knowledge about the functioning of the human body. It is absolutely impossible that it is true - if it was, it would disprove the laws of physiology and we would have to rewrite our scientific text books!"
…The Indian Rationalist Association has experienced specialists for such cases and a long track record of successful investigations into similar claims. Up to now, all of them have been exposed as frauds.
In 1999, there had been the widely reported case of Kumari Neerja from Jalaun district (Uttar Pradesh state), who claimed that she was the reincarnation of the Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of letters and literature. She stayed alone in a small closet and allegedly did not take any food for five years and did not excrete urine or stool. Since her managers announced that she would soon transform into a lifeless statue of Saraswati, the police were alarmed.
In cooperation with the police, our young rationalist investigators and physicians verified her room and found the entry to a little toilet hidden behind a shelf and a brick hole, through which she received food. Blood tests revealed the presence of glucose, indicating the intake of food. When finally a harmless gas, causing vomiting sensation, was released into her room, she vomited pieces of chapatti and potatoes. The confused woman turned out to be a mental case and was admitted to the local government hospital.
In 1992, Sanal Edamaruku exposed the godman Pilot Baba who claimed that he survived in meditation under water for five days without breathing. Pilot Baba’s under-water feat attracted national and international attention. He constructed a huge swimming pool in a Delhi public park, climbed down in front of a crowd of 4000, ordered water to be pumped in and stayed there underwater for four days. That was at least the claim.
But Edamaruku and his assistants exposed him. They found out that there was a special secret pipeline connection. Though water was pumped in, the tarpaulin-covered pool did not get wet inside, and the Baba had a comfortable time on its dry ground. Four years later, in 1996, he tried it again. This time he claimed to stay for four days buried under the earth. Edamaruku exposed him again in front of television cameras. This time he was sitting comfortably in an underground dug-up room.
Jani’s handlers did not allow Edamaruku and his associates to be involved in the testing of Jani in 2003. Nor were they allowed to be involved in the recent re-testing. According to Edamaruku:
I asked to be allowed to send an independent team to survey the room where this test is taking place, but I was repeatedly turned down. It is ridiculous to ask people to believe that any man can go 15 days, let alone 70 years, without food or water.
Dr. Shah has been in charge of three similar investigations over the past ten years, and he has never allowed independent verification.
In 2000, he was asking for funds to investigate a man he claimed got his energy from the sun, just like plants do. In 2003, he even approached NASA for funds to investigate Mr. Jani, claiming astronauts might benefit from the research. This particular hospital, led by this particular doctor, keeps on making these claims without ever producing evidence or publishing research.
Another reason for being suspicious of Dr. Shah is that he is not presenting his evidence (including his alleged round-the-clock film surveillance of Jani) to a scientific journal or committee. He gave the results of the study to a blogger. Another blogger commented: Iâ??d love to see the video of his â??garglingâ?? and â??bathing activities,â?? which appear to be a shift from the no-liquids rule from earlier in the experiment. (As far as I know, Sanal Edamaruku has not blogged recently about Shah and Jani.)
Some might find it amusing that the Daily Mailâ??not known for its fair, balanced, and skeptical reportingâ??finds the Jani story a bit of a stretch, even if it tugs at the apron strings of little old ladies with infinite faith and a willingness to suspend disbelief in the incredible.
Who cares, I guarantee he couldnt deadlift his own body weight which was probably 120.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Those same people believe in talking snakes and parting oceans. [/quote]
I think it’s a mistake to take symbolism and imagery in religion and mythology at face value or to try to interpret it literally, and by modern western definitions of what is considered acceptable.
I’m not saying that talking snakes exist, but very often there is an underlying truth in such imagery. We tend to forget that the cultures from which this sort of iconography originated are thousands of years old, and that something like a talking snake (that most of us would consider absurd) was a way of taking quite a complex idea and expressing it in a simple way that would be accessible to all people, educated or not.
We are to quick to dismiss a talking snake as hokey because our way of thinking has outgrown those of, earlier ‘less sophisticated’ civilizations, and all we see is a talking snake…we don’t see the idea behind it. It’s left in the dust.
It only becomes a ridiculous stretch because you’ve expanded on my explanation. I said nothing about him developing an ability to store nutrients and partition energy.
My theory operates in a far simpler way than that. All I’m saying is that living through a repeatedly (not perpetually) deprived state, he could’ve prepared his body to accept a fast more readily than a normal person.
For one thing, he wouldn’t experience the same level of shock as an unprepared person and his body would not experience the same severe reactions. His body sees it as ‘normal’ and would logically be able to endure more.
I agree. I don’t think anybody is disputing that. I’m not arguing that he could do it beyond ten days - I’m just offering a plausible theory as to how it could be done without going out on too much of a limb. But when all is said and done, it could still be a hoax.
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Those same people believe in talking snakes and parting oceans. [/quote]
I think it’s a mistake to take symbolism and imagery in religion and mythology at face value or to try to interpret it literally, and by modern western definitions of what is considered acceptable.
I’m not saying that talking snakes exist, but very often there is an underlying truth in such imagery. We tend to forget that the cultures from which this sort of iconography originated are thousands of years old, and that something like a talking snake (that most of us would consider absurd) was a way of taking quite a complex idea and expressing it in a simple way that would be accessible to all people, educated or not.
We are to quick to dismiss a talking snake as hokey because our way of thinking has outgrown those of, earlier ‘less sophisticated’ civilizations, and all we see is a talking snake…we don’t see the idea behind it. It’s left in the dust.
It only becomes a ridiculous stretch because you’ve expanded on my explanation. I said nothing about him developing an ability to store nutrients and partition energy.
My theory operates in a far simpler way than that. All I’m saying is that living through a repeatedly (not perpetually) deprived state, he could’ve prepared his body to accept a fast more readily than a normal person.
For one thing, he wouldn’t experience the same level of shock as an unprepared person and his body would not experience the same severe reactions. His body sees it as ‘normal’ and would logically be able to endure more.
I agree. I don’t think anybody is disputing that. I’m not arguing that he could do it beyond ten days - I’m just offering a plausible theory as to how it could be done without going out on too much of a limb. But when all is said and done, it could still be a hoax.[/quote]
You surprised me with this. I am glad some people aren’t so damned mentally confined.
[quote]roybot wrote:
Here’s a simple, rational explanation: couldn’t Jani have trained himself to become very efficient at fasting, through simply having had a lifetime of practice?
It is possible to build up tolerances to poisons over time, couldn’t he have gradually developed a ‘tolerance’ to fluid deprivation?
I know ‘the experts’ say that he couldn’t have survived for ten days, but aren’t they basing that on cases in which people are suddenly and completely deprived of liquid, having never been in that situation before?
Think of it like a smoker being able to survive a dose of nicotine that would be fatal to a non-smoker…[/quote]
The video said that they were testing his blood three times a day. It seems like there at least should have been some evidence of his body dehydrating, but the article and video both make it seem like he could have kept going easily. That’s what makes me not even believe any of it.
[quote]nrt wrote:
From Dr. Sudhir Shah and Prahlad Jani - Skeptimedia - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
Dr. Sudhir Shah and Prahlad Jani
The logo to the left indicates the source of the story this post begins with. FOX, being fair and balanced, got the story from The Sun, the fair and balanced tabloid from the UK. The story begins: “An Indian holy man has amazed a team of doctors by not eating or drinking anything for two weeks.” To be fair and balanced: this story is all over the Internet.
I wrote about this “holy man,” Prahlad Jani, in my last newsletter. He claims he hasn’t eaten or drunk anything for over 70 years. About six years ago, Jani pulled this same publicity stunt and it was reported by the BBC. In 2003, Jani and his promoters, led by Dr. Sudhir Shah, were debunked by Sanal Edamaruku of the Indian Rationalist Association.
“The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the NASA have obviously been taken in by the absurd claims of a village fraud,” wrote Sanal Edamaruku, Secretary General of the Indian Rationalist Association, in a letter to the Indian Defense Minister George Fernandes. "It is shocking to see that government officials and scientists are so gullible to believe that a human being can survive 60 years without food and water!
The claim does not only contradict experience and common sense, but also our well-established biological and medical knowledge about the functioning of the human body. It is absolutely impossible that it is true - if it was, it would disprove the laws of physiology and we would have to rewrite our scientific text books!"
…The Indian Rationalist Association has experienced specialists for such cases and a long track record of successful investigations into similar claims. Up to now, all of them have been exposed as frauds.
In 1999, there had been the widely reported case of Kumari Neerja from Jalaun district (Uttar Pradesh state), who claimed that she was the reincarnation of the Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of letters and literature.
She stayed alone in a small closet and allegedly did not take any food for five years and did not excrete urine or stool. Since her managers announced that she would soon transform into a lifeless statue of Saraswati, the police were alarmed.
In cooperation with the police, our young rationalist investigators and physicians verified her room and found the entry to a little toilet hidden behind a shelf and a brick hole, through which she received food.
Blood tests revealed the presence of glucose, indicating the intake of food. When finally a harmless gas, causing vomiting sensation, was released into her room, she vomited pieces of chapatti and potatoes. The confused woman turned out to be a mental case and was admitted to the local government hospital.
In 1992, Sanal Edamaruku exposed the godman Pilot Baba who claimed that he survived in meditation under water for five days without breathing. Pilot Baba’s under-water feat attracted national and international attention. He constructed a huge swimming pool in a Delhi public park, climbed down in front of a crowd of 4000, ordered water to be pumped in and stayed there underwater for four days. That was at least the claim.
But Edamaruku and his assistants exposed him. They found out that there was a special secret pipeline connection. Though water was pumped in, the tarpaulin-covered pool did not get wet inside, and the Baba had a comfortable time on its dry ground. Four years later, in 1996, he tried it again.
This time he claimed to stay for four days buried under the earth. Edamaruku exposed him again in front of television cameras. This time he was sitting comfortably in an underground dug-up room.
Jani’s handlers did not allow Edamaruku and his associates to be involved in the testing of Jani in 2003. Nor were they allowed to be involved in the recent re-testing. According to Edamaruku:
I asked to be allowed to send an independent team to survey the room where this test is taking place, but I was repeatedly turned down. It is ridiculous to ask people to believe that any man can go 15 days, let alone 70 years, without food or water.
Dr. Shah has been in charge of three similar investigations over the past ten years, and he has never allowed independent verification.
In 2000, he was asking for funds to investigate a man he claimed got his energy from the sun, just like plants do. In 2003, he even approached NASA for funds to investigate Mr. Jani, claiming astronauts might benefit from the research. This particular hospital, led by this particular doctor, keeps on making these claims without ever producing evidence or publishing research.
Another reason for being suspicious of Dr. Shah is that he is not presenting his evidence (including his alleged round-the-clock film surveillance of Jani) to a scientific journal or committee.
He gave the results of the study to a blogger. Another blogger commented: Iâ??d love to see the video of his â??garglingâ?? and â??bathing activities,â?? which appear to be a shift from the no-liquids rule from earlier in the experiment. (As far as I know, Sanal Edamaruku has not blogged recently about Shah and Jani.)
Some might find it amusing that the Daily Mailâ??not known for its fair, balanced, and skeptical reportingâ??finds the Jani story a bit of a stretch, even if it tugs at the apron strings of little old ladies with infinite faith and a willingness to suspend disbelief in the incredible.
[/quote]
And that; as Paul Harvey would say -is the rest of the story.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]50_Caliber wrote:
The possible explanations I can think of, applying Occam’s Razor:
-
The doctor’s are in on it and wanted to generate publicity for themselves.
-
The doctor’s are easily fooled, the old dude simple sipped some water smuggled underneath his robes or didn’t see it when someone walked into the room and gave him food and water.
-
They’re not even real doctors and it’s a simple publicity stunt.
-
The guy has supernatural powers and truly posseses god-like powers.
I’m favoring the top 3 myself…
[/quote]
…OR, he actually made it ten whole days without dying with nothing to eat or drink.
We have half of the country who believe Jesus did the same for 40 days in a desert yet suddenly the very idea that a man could do it for 10 days causes cries of “stupid” to be yelled across the aisle.
No one is even debating the “72 year” claim.
Let’s see where the debate goes now.[/quote]
His credibility is shot to pieces with the 72 year claim. I think thats why most are sceptical.
If he had come out and said 10 days from the get go, then he would be a lot more believable.
[quote]roybot wrote:
I think it’s a mistake to take symbolism and imagery in religion and mythology at face value or to try to interpret it literally, and by modern western definitions of what is considered acceptable. [/quote]
Indeed, so let’s not believe that Jesus was wandering a desert for 40 days without food, you can’t pick and choose what to take literally and what not to.
[quote]
It only becomes a ridiculous stretch because you’ve expanded on my explanation. I said nothing about him developing an ability to store nutrients and partition energy.
My theory operates in a far simpler way than that. All I’m saying is that living through a repeatedly (not perpetually) deprived state, he could’ve prepared his body to accept a fast more readily than a normal person. [/quote]
Yes, and logically that would mean his body would be storing nutrients and partitioning energy more efficiently. I was saying the same thing from another perspective, it’s not impossible but still implausible.
It most certainly is.