Theoretically, what would happen to someone who did say an 8-12 week cycle of t500, and did zero pct afterward?
Firstly u havent stated how much 500. Are u taking anything else with the 500 so on so forth. If u like watching sex in the city and home renovation shows then i suggest no PCT would be fine cause thats most likely where u would find yourself.
It would take a much longer time for natural T production to start again if it even restarts at all. It would depend on age and a few other factors. You’d experience the effects of no testosterone. You’d lose a large portions of the gains you make. And your balls would explode.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
And your balls would explode.
[/quote]
X2
I assume you mean Testosterone at 500mg/week for 8-12 weeks.
The fact that you posted some place’s brand name and not the ester of the test and the dosage per week is a bad sign that you probably dont know a whole lot about what your doing…
But I digress…
Your production will take a very long time to recover, could be months, or longer up to a year, etc.
You will probably have estrogen rebound, among other problems.
If the lack of testosterone doesn’t kill your sex drive the high estrogen surely will…
I can go on but you get the idea…“You will get cancer and you will die.”
Would some Alpha Male get the T to start pumpin’ again?
Not even slightly
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Not even slightly[/quote]
Okay then!
Would tapering do the trick?
[quote]BeefyBoy wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Not even slightly
Okay then!
Would tapering do the trick?[/quote]
Read the “test stasis/taper protocol” sticky.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
BeefyBoy wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Not even slightly
Okay then!
Would tapering do the trick?
Read the “test stasis/taper protocol” sticky.[/quote]
I have… I was only curious if that would be a good response this thread topic.
[quote]BeefyBoy wrote:
rrjc5488 wrote:
BeefyBoy wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Not even slightly
Okay then!
Would tapering do the trick?
Read the “test stasis/taper protocol” sticky.
I have… I was only curious if that would be a good response this thread topic.[/quote]
Oh. Yes, the stasis/taper would be fine for a test cycle.
When most people say “taper” they mean going from 500mg/wk to 250mg/wk and that’s it (or something), which is not adequate. Sorry about that.
Would a statis/taper be considered PCT?
Sorry for my noob questions, just trying to get a base knowledge here.
[quote]BeefyBoy wrote:
Would a statis/taper be considered PCT?
Sorry for my noob questions, just trying to get a base knowledge here.[/quote]
Yes, if you follow the protocol outlined in the sticky, it will be fine for PCT.
Many people on here have successfully used it, and say they liked it.
it may work … if this is your first cycle… after awhile the stasis/taper will NOT work. Even the guy that wrote it will tell you that. The more you cycle the harder recovery becomes, guys like to convince themselves that their magic PCT protocol is going to make it all ok, but trust me in the end it won’t.
[quote]morepain wrote:
it may work … if this is your first cycle… after awhile the stasis/taper will NOT work. Even the guy that wrote it will tell you that. The more you cycle the harder recovery becomes, guys like to convince themselves that their magic PCT protocol is going to make it all ok, but trust me in the end it won’t. [/quote]
just to build on this…part of that is simply due how we gauge “recovery”.
Hopefully with each cycle you get larger, with each additional 10 or so pounds of mass you require more testosterone to maintain that mass no matter how perfect your diet and training.
If you get into the heavy weight ranges your muscles are going to be utilizing most of your testosterone, and it will still not be enough.
Your natural production will simply never be enough to comfortably maintain your mass. Your going to feel like your test is “low” and may even exhibit low testosterone symptoms to some extent simply because you cant physically make enough even if your natural production is functioning at the same peak output it did as when you were 18.
Hence when you first start cycling, generally your not only younger (usually mid 20’s for alot of guys, physical peak), but your also much closer to your natural size. The larger and older you get the more it hurts to keep it.
Im not saying that cycling doesnt damage your system in some way, it probably does, but I doubt that is the whole equation, most probably would agree.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
morepain wrote:
it may work … if this is your first cycle… after awhile the stasis/taper will NOT work. Even the guy that wrote it will tell you that. The more you cycle the harder recovery becomes, guys like to convince themselves that their magic PCT protocol is going to make it all ok, but trust me in the end it won’t.
just to build on this…part of that is simply due how we gauge “recovery”.
Hopefully with each cycle you get larger, with each additional 10 or so pounds of mass you require more testosterone to maintain that mass no matter how perfect your diet and training.
If you get into the heavy weight ranges your muscles are going to be utilizing most of your testosterone, and it will still not be enough.
Your natural production will simply never be enough to comfortably maintain your mass. Your going to feel like your test is “low” and may even exhibit low testosterone symptoms to some extent simply because you cant physically make enough even if your natural production is functioning at the same peak output it did as when you were 18.
Hence when you first start cycling, generally your not only younger (usually mid 20’s for alot of guys, physical peak), but your also much closer to your natural size. The larger and older you get the more it hurts to keep it.
Im not saying that cycling doesnt damage your system in some way, it probably does, but I doubt that is the whole equation, most probably would agree.[/quote]
The only problem with this theory is that natural athletes who increase lean body mass would be more inclined to these symptoms also.
Westclock, are you talking about androgen receptor downregulation? I think that Bill Roberts has made some convincing arguments against that idea.
[quote]Cymru wrote:
Westclock wrote:
morepain wrote:
it may work … if this is your first cycle… after awhile the stasis/taper will NOT work. Even the guy that wrote it will tell you that. The more you cycle the harder recovery becomes, guys like to convince themselves that their magic PCT protocol is going to make it all ok, but trust me in the end it won’t.
just to build on this…part of that is simply due how we gauge “recovery”.
Hopefully with each cycle you get larger, with each additional 10 or so pounds of mass you require more testosterone to maintain that mass no matter how perfect your diet and training.
If you get into the heavy weight ranges your muscles are going to be utilizing most of your testosterone, and it will still not be enough.
Your natural production will simply never be enough to comfortably maintain your mass. Your going to feel like your test is “low” and may even exhibit low testosterone symptoms to some extent simply because you cant physically make enough even if your natural production is functioning at the same peak output it did as when you were 18.
Hence when you first start cycling, generally your not only younger (usually mid 20’s for alot of guys, physical peak), but your also much closer to your natural size. The larger and older you get the more it hurts to keep it.
Im not saying that cycling doesnt damage your system in some way, it probably does, but I doubt that is the whole equation, most probably would agree.
The only problem with this theory is that natural athletes who increase lean body mass would be more inclined to these symptoms also. [/quote]
Assuming that they are actually beyond their natural limit, if they are truly natural they are by definition not over their natural limit.
They are not capable of having more muscle then their production can support, and having it cause subsequent problems… because they would never be able to create that muscle in the first place, it could never exist by definition.
Lets be honest, alot of guys who cycle were probably on the moderate to lower end of the gene pool to begin with, hence why they started cycling.
If you need 2 grams of androgens a week to build something, its unlikely you can maintain it with your own production.
We use androgens to push our body PAST where it can support, and alot of us end up with 20-30 pounds of muscle we were never “supposed” to be able to have, and are fighting to keep it.
If you build that same muscle mass on your own production, it stands to reason your production is sufficient to support it.
Im not at all claiming I am correct, I have absolutely no evidence beyond simply knowing some guys who have been cycling longer than myself, which is not exactly evidence… Im simply thinking outloud.
Im saying by bloodwork you could be at peak production, 100% recovered.
But still feel tired and shitty and “unrecovered” simply because you have overextended your body, it cant physically maintain what you have used drugs to build.
You lose a few pounds of muscle and you blame it on your test rates not “bouncing back” quick enough and look for some way to keep those gains till your rates recover… when in reality they are at max production, and that level is simply insufficient to feed all that new mass. You lose mass till you reach a level you can support and magically you feel all better.
You think to yourself, well my balls finally started kicking aigan, but what if they were kicking the whole time and simply couldn’t keep up.
Same outcome in the long run, but perhaps we are looking at it backwards sometimes, and bloodwork should be a more regular part of this game besides simply going by “feel”.
I was speaking theoretically. For the point of discussion lets pose two different scenarios.
Case #1: “Jim” Jim is a 22 year old male who has done a 10 week cycle at 500 mg a week of t500, no taper, no front load. Jim began seriously lifting for football in high school as a freshman and has been lifting for 6 years, and seriously for the past 3 years. He experiences impressive gains during his cycle, but is irresponsible and does zero pct.
Case #2: “Gene” Gene is a 38 year old male who has been lifting on and off for the past 15 years, but seriously the past year. He has a friend who is currently on his first cycle and has been experiencing enviable gains. Gene decides himself to do a cycle. He does the same cycle as listed above, he figures since his testosterone levels are naturally lower due to age that he does not need to do pct in order to return to natural test levels.
What scenarios could result from this?
What differences occur between the two due to age?
Depending on how robust each’s endocrine system is to begin with there is a better chance Case 1 will eventually recover fully. It may never happen though and the meantime would be quite uncomfortable. Testosterone is hardly the only hormone that would be affected.
There is a thread about a young guy who did no PCT. Have you read it?