[quote]dbsmith wrote:
Reports of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy do exist…I’ve seen mostly case reports which aren’t the best level of evidence.
Interesting that you equate cortisol and testosterone as having counter-regulatory actions. I’d argue cortisol and insulin have opposite actions based on the fact that severe fetal diabetes that ensues in pancreatecomized animals can be ameliorated by adrenalectomy. Cortisol’s unopposed action by the lack of insulin in the pancreatecomized animal causes diabetes and death but if you remove the source of unopposed cortisol by adenalectomizing the animals you can maintain them simply by feeding them saline. No such relationship exists between adrenalectomized animals and castrated animals.
Furthermore the actions of cortisol are to raise blood sugar and are nearly all catabolic (you can get massive glycogen deposition in the liver via cortisol’s action to activate glycogen synthase and inhibit glycogen phosphorlase and while strictly speaking this is anabolic in nature it’s REALLY done to support catabolism elsewhere)…the breakdown of glycogen, fat, and protein are all accelerated in the presence of cortisol while insulin has all opposite anabolic effects. Also, testosterone production is primarily regulated by E2 inhibition…when you say “dances with” that suggest some level of fine regulation between the two which testosterone and cortisol just doesn’t have…cortisol and insulin do.
About the only relationship between cortisol and testosterone is one is anabolic and one is catabolic but the interplay between them in the regulation of overall energy metabolism is weak at best…certainly not as direct as that of insulin and cortisol.
[/quote]
You’re off base man. Nitty gritty of physiology is definitely important, but ya gotta look at the bigger picture.
The anabolic to catabolic ratio is entirely determined by hypothalamic control of the whole shebang. The hypothalamus supports high intensity exercise through many, many metabolic pathways, but to stay on the topic of cortisol and testosterone, I’ll stick to those two hormones. You are correct that in healthy people who are non-diebetic, insulin is the KEY ingredient in deciding which side of the mountain one’s metabolism will slide; anabolic or catabolic. Cortisol and testosterone do play a dance with each via hypothalamic control of the endocrine response to stress (believe me, an exogenous steroid IS stress on your body). As you exercise harder and harder (given that glucose is maintained and insulin is adequate), pituitary LH will rise as much as it possibly can to support anabolic metabolism. At some point, however, LH cannot keep up, and you begin to see a switch: Cortisol rapidly comes online. Natural testosterone drops off, and cortisol takes its place. This is a natural event, and this is usually when most people end their workout. Acute Overreaching occurs when this balance is tipped a tad too far. If nutrition is not adequate, this balance will be tipped far sooner than later. Hypothalamic control of pituitary LH can be suppressed for days following intensive exercise, and natural testosterone will stay suppressed until physiologic repair of the central nervous system has taken place. This is the primary flaw with the theory behind body-part training. Although individual muscles are getting time off from loading, the central nervous system isn’t necessarily repairing adequately.
So, to pull things back. With the administration of an exogenous anabolic steroid, you are, in essence completely bi-passing the natural cycle of lowered anabolic sex hormones following high intensity exercise. With supra physiologic testosterone, you will still see the delayed cortisol response to exhaustive training, HOWEVER, because the administered agent is being released by a different mechanism (oil base release, vs. testicular release from pituitary LH), there simply is no drop in testosterone following exercise. This is a double-edged sword, because this is exactly the benefit of anaboic steroids: You don’t get the post-exercise muscle catabolism. Generally, this is WONDERFUL! Muscle just keeps building. Because of neurosteroidal messaging, the athlete using anabolics can just keep training and training. Where the long-term problem arrises, is that all of this extra testosterone (which in turn triggers higher and higher training intensity/volumes) is messaging with the hypothalamus that the body is extremely anabolic. Remember that the primary goal of the brain is to keep the body in homeostasis, and in the instance of supraphysiologic androgens, the way it responds is to continually up-regulare the sympathetic nervous system. This is not neurolgically sustainable however. When the cortisol axis never gets a chance to down-regulate, a situation of hypothalamic fatigue can turn into a situation of hypothalamic INJURY. That’s right, you can get a BRAIN INJURY. In fact, that’s exactly what chronic Overtraining Syndrome is… An injury to the Hypothalamus. And in that instance, in a bad situation, it can take as long as 5 years for the central nervous system to fully re-build phospholipid membranes and neurotransmitter circuitries.
A healthy, highly trained athlete might show a morning Testosterone : Cortisol lab like this:
23ng/dL : 17ng/dL
An athlete juicing to supra-physiologic levels might look like this:
64ng/dL : 30ng/dL
Over the long term, exogenous supra-physiologic androgens will jack your endocrine response to stress. If you read steroid user websites, so many times will you read a thread titled “Steroid recovery… Last Winstrol cycle last year. Foggy head, no energy. Problems with anxiety”.
The shits real man!