[quote]Affliction wrote:
I’m not the most knowledgeable guy with juice just yet as I’ve never actually done a cycle… lol. That being said, I’ve read this forum for a few years now, and researched other places as well.
I comment when I feel I can add something worthwhile to a discussion[/quote]
That describes me too!
[quote]Affliction wrote:
Methylation may change the “feel” of a steroid slightly, but its general categorization and effects remain the same. Notably, an example of this would be the differences between the feel of oral Winstrol and injectable Winstrol.
Patrick Arnold has also said that on a mg-to-mg basis, SD is the most powerful oral steroid, and also the most liver toxic.
In short, you are adding Masteron to your cycle should you decide to do this.[/quote]
Oral and IM Winstrol are identical. Adding a methyl group certainly changes the function of the compound. Case in point… Dianabol is methylated Equipoise. They are nothing alike.
The strongest and most toxic steroid is most likely oral trenbolone (Methyltrienolone). It’s dosed in mcg due to it’s extremely strong binding rate to the AR.
[quote] JJ wrote:
I think deca doesnt get its due’s these days…
It is a good drug IMO. Low sides all round - great for size AND good for cutting if you use a good quality product and arent intending on competing…
And Gerdo, (hi mate) you gonna need at least a Gram of test with a good 150mg ED of tren ace to compete near me…
Seriously though… you will.
ahem…
I would NOT mess with SD man - why why why? why bother?
Turinabol? Var? Dbol? even winny… there’s plenty of options.
JJ[/quote]
hmmm…u wanna sponsor me the gram of test per wk…i’ll brew the ace 
haha ya right dood…that’s about 100mg ace more per/d that i’d run ;D
And with deca…it just seems like any cycle i’d plan out where i could put deca i could put eq and probably like it better…npp sounds interesting tho…
I really don’t know tho, I guess I can’t know anything until I sample them all out lol.
well a reason for ppl to mess with sd is that it is potent stuff…i mean people are always buying it from our store and putting on 10-15lbs of lean muscle…it is liver toxic, but thats a risk you run with any oral. It has produced little sides in my “test subjects” 
that come in my shop. Most of the sides are a little bloat which is odd because of the structure. It is methyl masteron but not to be confused with masteron at all just as somebody else said that dbol is methyl eq and both are completely different. So if you live in the u.s. and have legal access to a supp like sd and it’s cheaper to run than dbol, winni, var, and from what I’ve seen the only difference is increased hepatoxicity, then there is a reason to mess with it.
I agree tho, if and when I plan out my cycles I probably won’t include a pro-steroid, just opt for the real thing, but in Growing Boy’s case it might fit in well…lol
Gerdy
Thats what i mean - not “i wouldnt mess with that” in a freaked out way, more like “i wouldnt even bother with it” as we have the creme de la creme of muscle drugs to choose from, and you wanna use a lowers voice pro-steroid?
Pah!
JJ
[quote] JJ wrote:
Thats what i mean - not “i wouldnt mess with that” in a freaked out way, more like “i wouldnt even bother with it” as we have the creme de la creme of muscle drugs to choose from, and you wanna use a lowers voice pro-steroid?
Pah!
JJ[/quote]
lol ya but in US we don’t have the creme de la creme…it’s always a hassle with customs or a ridiculously priced source :S
I still wouldn’t shortchange sdrol…i know a lot of people do, but I think it could be added in there with any of the other oral steroids…
oh well tho…now lemme know how the test/eq works because I’m pretty sure I want that as my first cycle. I don’t want to do just test…the first cycle is supposed to be the best so I’m multicompounding it…and it sounds more fun lol
DG
my question through all this is.
GB do you really need an oral in your cycle?
[quote]Affliction wrote:
I have a friend who used SD extensively while being a drug-tested athlete in college, he’s also very bright and has shared PM’s with some chemists around BB.com like Patrick Arnold and some other “respected members”. As such, I consider him sort of a SD expert, if you will. He probably has 10+ cycles of 2-6 weeks with that compound under his belt.
SD should not be referred to as a prohormone. Or a prosteroid. It is chemically identical to the steroid Masteron, except it is methylated. Methylation may change the “feel” of a steroid slightly, but its general categorization and effects remain the same. Notably, an example of this would be the differences between the feel of oral Winstrol and injectable Winstrol.
Patrick Arnold has also said that on a mg-to-mg basis, SD is the most powerful oral steroid, and also the most liver toxic. Patrick Arnold is probably one of the brightest chemistry minds in the supplement industry, period, for the doubters.
Consider how many users of injectable Masteron have complained about unbearable pumps and tightness at anything above 300mg/week. My friend seems to think this rings true as well, as he has observed the same thing at anything above 40mg/day, which is 280mg/week for the mathematically challenged. He believes the “sweet spot” to be 20-30mg/day, depending on lean body mass.
In short, you are adding Masteron to your cycle should you decide to do this. Just because the Masteron (SD) was sold at GNC at one time does not mean it is not, in fact, Masteron. So consider these facts – many anecdotal, but some rooted in science – and make an informed decision.
[/quote]
I read that SD was a precursor to Masteron, but this suits me just fine. I also read Patrick Arnold’s article on an MD about OTC steroids. I hope that I didn’t convey the message that I know everything about SD. Personally, it hasn’t harmed me to the extent that I’ve seen it harm others.
The more I ponder, the more I begin to see how insipid the SD will be in the grand scheme of things. I still remember my aging Asian doctor telling me, “Holy shit, it looks like you were binge drinking for weeks straight.” So the liver toxic effects of SD are well embedded in my mind. Please note that the SD isn’t my first choice. Thank you for the post. -GB
[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
From research Id say take the sd for the first 4 weeks because your test e won’t be in full strength by then and the sd kicks in within a week…most people i know say it takes a good 4 weeks for test e to start showing its affects…then the cycle i have planned for my future is test/eq at 500mg wk test e and 400 wk eq…i think 750 may be a bit much…probably wouldn’t be a good idea to mess with tren yet…from what i’ve read it has some AMAZING positives and UGLY negatives with the insomnia, sweats, and progesterone issues
well there is my 2 centavos…lol
DG[/quote]
You sir, have stolen my closing statement. I don’t see myself using tren. I for one don’t know anything on the compound. I was fixated on the 750 per week based on the conclusions that I arrived at in my other thread but I’m realistically thinking something more along the lines of 500mg/week test with 400mg/week EQ. Thanks for the post Gerdy, I haven’t heard much from you in while. Not after that night…you know the rubber duck and the midget? remember? lol! -GB
[quote]nichaaron wrote:
my question through all this is.
GB do you really need an oral in your cycle?
[/quote]
Need is a powerful term. I would like to run an oral because of its quick manifestation, according to my stepdad and the information I’ve read. I find that very appealing. Originally I only thought of running a test only cycle but the more I read and the more learned, I began to consider adding other compounds.
[quote]Dopa wrote:
Oral and IM Winstrol are identical. Adding a methyl group certainly changes the function of the compound. Case in point… Dianabol is methylated Equipoise. They are nothing alike.
The strongest and most toxic steroid is most likely oral trenbolone (Methyltrienolone). It’s dosed in mcg due to it’s extremely strong binding rate to the AR.[/quote]
Thank you very much for clarifying this.
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
nichaaron wrote:
my question through all this is.
GB do you really need an oral in your cycle?
Need is a powerful term. I would like to run an oral because of its quick manifestation, according to my stepdad and the information I’ve read. I find that very appealing. Originally I only thought of running a test only cycle but the more I read and the more learned, I began to consider adding other compounds. [/quote]
so in short,for YOU
yes you need an oral
cool,
I have no experiance with orals just wantedt o clarify why you felt that an oral was the right thing for your cycle is all.
Yes, I need oral. After my girl left me, there’s a void that I just can’t seem to fill. lol
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
Yes, I need oral. After my girl left me, there’s a void that I just can’t seem to fill. lol [/quote]
LMAO
You don’t need an oral unless you want the specific characteristic that steroid provides; i.e. a higher androgenic rated compound to increase strength like Dianabol, Anadrol, Halotestin, via it’s CNS effects.
The “drying” effects of Winstrol, Anavar, Proviron, or Halotestin from DHT analogs. Or the mental well-being effects from Dianabol via dopamine. These are limited examples.
IMO if you are sticking with test enanthate for example and want quick results, you’d be better off either front loading it or adding suspension/propionate instead.
I was just about to suggest what dopa just has. If you are looking for a quicker start of things add some prop in at the beginning of your cycle until the other test kicks in.
I think you are much better off doing that that running that SD crap. Ive heard and read way too many horror stories about that stuff to think its anywhere near worthwhile putting in anyones body.
[quote]Dopa wrote:
You don’t need an oral unless you want the specific characteristic that steroid provides; i.e. a higher androgenic rated compound to increase strength like Dianabol, Anadrol, Halotestin, via it’s CNS effects.
The “drying” effects of Winstrol, Anavar, Proviron, or Halotestin from DHT analogs. Or the mental well-being effects from Dianabol via dopamine. These are limited examples.
IMO if you are sticking with test enanthate for example and want quick results, you’d be better off either front loading it or adding suspension/propionate instead.[/quote]
I think my previous post was too ambigous regarding my longing for an oral in my cycle. In short, yes I would like a compound that provides an almost immediate increase in strength and being the way I am a compound that manifests itself visually equally as fast. I don’t plan on using the SD. Its just not plausible. The time is upon us boys, so I’m burning the midnight oil designing my protocol. I’m currently planning on running 500mg/week of test e, 400mg/week of EQ and against the opinions of most dbol at 35mg/day (my other grocery store is happily stocked) at either the initial weeks of the cycle or using World’s advice at weeks 3-6. That is my main dilemma when to introduce the dbol. Can anyone with experience with administering dbol using World’s advice post their experiences. I appreciate more posts and criticism. -GB
If you want immediate strength and visual impact I’d go with Dianabol or Anadrol in addition to what you’ve already proposed. You’d have to titrate up to the desired amount according to side effects, back pumps, etc…
Because you want this immediate boost I’d start at week 1 naturally.
A lot of this is trial and error. Since everyone’s body is differant all you can do is make an educated guess and go from there.
That’s another reason to start with just one androgen and start low. You may be lucky and grow like a weed on low dosages. I did and so have a few others on this board.
I gained 30lbs on 200mg per week. If I were you, I’d do a test only cycle at 250mg per week and titrate from there.
It sounds like you want to go balls to the wall though.
Thanks for the post Dopa, I hear you on the trail and error aspect of AAS use. Some of us grow on low dosages will others are on the opposite side of the spectrum. I’m basing my decisions ,possibly erroneously, on my blood work and my experiences with SD. I’m living proof that some “youngsters” don’t posses the highest levels of testosterone they will ever have.
I strongly believe that if it were not for my deviant actions and taking an OTC steroid at such an early age I wouldn’t be in the condition I’m in now. With the SD the higher the dosage I took the more sides I experienced but the gains underwent the same effect. I am prepared to go balls to the wall. This decision places me in the big boys sandbox.
Their is no more joking. The training will be hard and heavy and the meals will be lean and big. With the removal of certain social distractions (girlfriend and associated bullshit) I believe that I can give the proposed amount of androgens a run for their money. Call me naive, or shun me for my bravado but I feel confident that I will prevail. Please note that all the while, I remain humble. I’m prepared for the sides. I know that the probability of them manifesting themselves is quite high with the planned amounts, but its the same risk we all take when we plunge into the darkside.
“or shun me for my bravado”
You are quite possible one of the funniest guys on here!! ROFLMARO!! heheheee!!
Good one!
I GOTTA remember that!
“well, you can call me an idiot, or shun me for my bravado…” lololol!
“your an idiot” lolol!
(not you, that was an imaginary conversation where i drop that line in)
Brook
But I’m as serious as lung cancer there Brook. Hey what happened to your old account?