Hello, I’ve been a lurker here for some time, and have enjoyed this site very much. I decided to pose this question here for anybody in the MA world, because I think the maturity level here is a little higher than at most MA sites.
I’ve been a member of a martial arts school for a little over five years. The school has been going through some rapid expansion by opening a couple of new locations. Recently, there have been some senior students leaving the school, and it turns out that one of the major reasons for this is that you are required to sign a no-compete contract when you get promoted to a certain level. I had not heard of this before, I was under the impression that only instructors were required to do this.
I will most likely get to this level sometime next year. I like the school, but the rapid expansion means that you get to train with the master instructor less and less, and this no-compete contract idea is objectionable to me on a basis of principle. I was talking to a guy that just left the school over the weekend (at a UFC party), and the school he switched to sounds mighty inviting.
I believe strongly in loyalty to your school and instructors, but I’m getting second thoughts with this no-compete issue. Anybody out there ever heard of such a thing, in order to just stay at a school and receive “advanced” training?
This sounds like crap, and I seriously doubt they would be able to enforce such a non-compete clause. I’ve signed non-compete and confidentiality statements for places I’ve WORKED for, but never some place I PAY for a membership. It sounds like they are trying to lock in income from high level students to pay for their branch extentions.
If you like where you are, sign the paper then jet if something happens you don’t like. I don’t think it’s enforcable.
This is probably to keep you from realizing that what they teach you does not work so you will keep giving them your money for “martial” arts training despite not learning anything martial.
Having finished law school and taken the bar (waiting on results), w/o knowing your state laws I seriously doubt a court would enforce this. I’m fortunate to be affiliated w/ a very good school. I pay the instructor monthly, only as I can come to class, no contracts, no uniforms, and very practical for real world. (I’ve been both a cop and a bouncer and he’s had plenty of suggestions for both.)
Anyway, a court is not going to restrict your ability to engage in a legal activity on your free time, so this covenant not to compete is bogus.
Well the school I used to attend had us sign forms saying that not only could we not compete but we also could not train at any other schools or study alternative martial arts. Our “competitions” were only between the other satellite schools of the chain. (I think there were 4) Basiclly, the above post is correct in saying it is a means of locking in income.
Also, in our case to shelter us from how lousy most of us were. However, it is key to decide what is important to you. If you want to become a K1 kickboxer or MMA fighter then it is time to move on. However, if you like training martial arts, more importantly the one you are in, and you have no intrest in becoming a pro then stay where you are.
What do they mean by no compete? You cannot open your own school? If so the non compete agreement needs to be reasonable with respect to time, scope, and geography. Also, a non compete agreement needs to be part of an otherwise enforcable agreement, meaning that you must give some kind of consideration.
If the non compete agreement prevents you from patronizing any other school, then this is an anti trust violation.
I have one question about this, if they were good at what they were doing and had a product worth marketing, would they need to do this? Hell no. Get out now, go find a good school elsewhere. PM me and I will suggest some.
Get out now. No legitimate school would have you sign that. And they aren’t teaching anything that you can’t take somewhere else and not get your butt kicked. There’s always somebody better.
I appreciate the feedback here, guys. I’m sure the non-compete is not enforceable, but who wants to go through that crap anyways? I have no plans on teaching or opening a school, so this does not affect me much, but the principle involved here bothers me.
When I first joined this school, nearly all the classes were taught by the master instructor. At that time, my daughter was taking karate at a chain, and I had a dispute with them about having to buy equipment through them only, at greatly inflated prices. My teacher offered to talk to them for me, and said that they need to keep the student’s best interests as their primary focus.
Obviously, things have changed in five years. The instructor has gotten married and has a child now. He has become very business - focused, and I can understand the need to keep his own family’s well-being in mind. It just seems that this non-compete is overly one-sided, and not standard practice by any means. At the least, I have not heard from anybody that has experienced this elsewhere.
Regarding the quality of training, it is not TMA b.s. He is a rep for a VERY prominent BJJ master (I will not name names, but it is someone everybody knows by his first name) and has lots of experience in other arts.
I am just a hobbyist (I’m damn near 50 years old, fer cryin out loud), so the level of training and competition are fine with me, I just don’t get time with the head guy any more. On the other hand, there’s a school near by that is very well known and is the home of one newly - crowned UFC champ.
I sense that it’s getting close to the time that I should be moving on, it’s just difficult leaving a place that I’ve spent so much time, sweat and blood at.
Our studio encourages us to compete. Why? Because it is a good school, they don’t have to worry about us realizing that what they are teaching us sucks. That’s all it comes down to IMO, they don’t want you to see what all there is to offer by other studios, or see that you’re being ripped off. Get out of there now.
[quote]Counterfeit Soda wrote:
Our studio encourages us to compete. Why? Because it is a good school, they don’t have to worry about us realizing that what they are teaching us sucks. That’s all it comes down to IMO, they don’t want you to see what all there is to offer by other studios, or see that you’re being ripped off. Get out of there now.[/quote]
Most comercial schools are crap. when you try to make money you loose some of what make’s the martial arts special
As some people have said, the only reason some schools want to stop you from competing is to stop you from realizing that they are no good. Some martial arts schools refer to schools like this as McDojos, might want to google that and check if your school fits the bill.
My school doesn’t encourage competing because what we are taught is not allowed in a controlled competition environment. However, we recently hosted a sanda competition, and 9 out of ten first round fights were won by our students (me included) against opponents from other schools that train exclusively by sanda rules.
So, I suggest you try a competition. If you do well and don’t really want to compete anyway, great, stick with your school. If you get your ass handed to you on a silver platter get out of there quick.
The school competes at jiu jitsu and submission wrestling tournaments, and does very well. We have highly technical grapplers. In MMA, it is not as strong, but there are some guys that have done well in local shows. It’s these types of guys that have been leaving the school the most.
The head instructor has never competed in MMA, and at age 40, never will. He has competed in national BJJ tournaments and has been very successful. When he was younger, he competed in point sparring and full contact karate and did well.
He apparently does not want guys with a good MMA background to train at the school, they get driven away by the non-compete and the owner’s desire to control all aspects of the school and be the undisputed top dog. I think that’s also the main reason why students that want to compete in MMA tend to leave.
Man that sucks, even more so because it is BJJ and it just hurts to hear that the art is going by the way of the McDojo. As a fellow BJJ artist I would tell you to get the hell out of there and find another school. If there isn’t another place to train then you might be stuck as I’m sure you would rather train there than not training at all.
This type of thing tends to happen a lot once BJJ schools turn really comercial. There nothing wrong with making a living off of teaching BJJ or any other martial art but there is much lost once the teacher is tryiung to get rich off of it.
People like this tend to loose the real flavor of the school which attracted the students in the first place, this is why the first to go are the top students. Once the top students are no longer learning from the master and are teaching more and more to a bunch of new people every month it gets old quick and they leave.
This has happened many times. Sometimes the top students leave and open a new school where all the former students reconnect at to train together again.
I have options, one of which is a very well known gym (I don’t want to name any names) that has a more competition orientation. I am way too old to compete in MMA (not sure if I would if I were younger), and only compete in BJJ perhaps once a year. My main focus is fitness and personal development. I think martial arts is a great way to get in shape and a great motivator to push yourself, to “conquer one’s self”. This is one reason I find this site so helpful. Beyond that, MA training is so much more social than, say, going to a fitness club, where I always felt out of place in a crowd of strangers.
Right now, there’s no rush for me to switch, kinda makes me sad to think about it, actually. I wanted to get feedback on this non-compete thing, it sounds like it would be a deal breaker for most people.