kinky
I think MeanGenes is just having some fun wih this.
yawn
yesterday, 10:31 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
if God doesnt exist then nihilism would sound about right.
you have morals? you believe in evolution?
so?
im a christian personally but to say something about the movie, i definitely agree with the overconsumption thing.
and im sure the OP will tell me that most christians in the US overconsume. and i dont care, most of them arent even really christians im sure.
btw good job on your research… whatever the heck that means and deciding that you are an agnostic.
I stopped reading there. Everything else before it was rhetorical bullshit.
I must be the Devil.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
im a christian
I stopped reading there. [/quote]
Why? Some of the best philosophers in history were Christian.
Don’t flatter yourself. You’re not that important.
DB
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
meangenes wrote:
im a christian
I stopped reading there.
Why? Some of the best philosophers in history were Christian.[/quote]
And some of the best scientist Muslim. You agree with their projected current philosophy? Didn’t think so.
[quote]I must be the Devil.
Don’t flatter yourself. You’re not that important.[/quote]
I’d like you to think about the possibilities that evil men can account to. Then tell someone that their depictions of the Devil in man are not important.
“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn’t exist.” - Charles Baudelaire
More philosophy. Man is inherently evil. Even moral institutions such as Christianity have been the catalyst for “righteous” genocide throughout the ages.
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
meangenes wrote:
im a christian
I stopped reading there.
Why?[/quote]
Because the point that he was trying to convey was because we have morals or because we believe in evolution, G-d must exist. Huh?
In theory our perception of science will come to replace G-d. Not prove or disprove, but fully replace. I don’t know, don’t claim to know. Just a theory. Just as G-d is.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
meangenes wrote:
im a christian
I stopped reading there.
Why?
Because the point that he was trying to convey was because we have morals or because we believe in evolution, G-d must exist. Huh?
In theory our perception of science will come to replace G-d. Not prove or disprove, but fully replace. I don’t know, don’t claim to know. Just a theory. Just as G-d is.[/quote]
You really did it. You’re one of them. You typed G - dash - D. What’s up with that? What are you afraid of?
Not fear. Respect. For people that do believe, otherwise I’d be trying to prove a point in vain.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
meangenes wrote:
im a christian
I stopped reading there.
Why? Some of the best philosophers in history were Christian.
And some of the best scientist Muslim. You agree with their projected current philosophy? Didn’t think so.
[/quote]
Ever heard of people like Kant, Descartes, or Berkely? Too bad for you, as their ideas shaped modern philosophy and they were Christian.
What is it with this twat?
[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
if God doesnt exist then nihilism would sound about right.
[/quote]
Could you explain how this follows? I don’t see why the absense of a god means nihilism.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
meangenes wrote:
im a christian
I stopped reading there.
Why? Some of the best philosophers in history were Christian.
And some of the best scientist Muslim. You agree with their projected current philosophy? Didn’t think so.
[/quote]
And what philosophy is that exactly?
[quote]I stopped reading there. Everything else before it was rhetorical bullshit.
I must be the Devil.[/quote]
yet a few post ago you were telling people that THEY were whining instead of trying to make a point.
[quote]“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn’t exist.” - Charles Baudelaire
More philosophy. Man is inherently evil. Even moral institutions such as Christianity have been the catalyst for “righteous” genocide throughout the ages.[/quote]
the first one is in the New Testament too. and just as i thought you are talking religion. Just cause all those crusaders said they were christians doesnt make them so. nowhere in the Bible did it say ‘go loot gold and stuff from the muslims and kill.’
this point is as good as saying that just cause most people that go to the gym do cardio and machines and they say they do bodybuilding it means that all bodybuilders are stupid? or that he is one?
no, im saying if God doesnt exist then who cares if you have morals or if evolution is true or not. or if you fight to get more powerful like nietzsche said. its all vain, so im agreeing with you that its all nihilistic … if thats a word haha
maybe some people will think its enough for themselves, but nothing(science), and noone( no person) can ever disprove the existance of God. simply because of what God is if He exists. if He does He is beyond/above this universe and definitely beyond/above our perception/minds/whatever. the scientific method was made in order to measure and understand things in THIS UNIVERSE. as for philosophy, or people saying there is no “proof” of God’s existance, i find it respectable if they decide they dont know(Agnosticism). deciding that He must therefore not exist, is IMO stupid and arrogant(atheism).
you may find truths, even “absolute” truths. its a fact that in most cases the stronger/fitter one survives or gets his way. yes. is that an absolute truth? suppose it is.
and i come back to what i said… so?
so you become free or an ubermensch as nietzsche said… or you spread your genes and make the species survive. you may find it as a point in life, but thats all there is to it. YOU find it as a reason to live. if there is no God, then there is noone that knows/decides/has set what THE goal of life or the universe’s is.
so if you believe He doesnt exist then do whatever you want, but still there is no point in life aside from whatever points you give to it.
does this make sense?
[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
maybe some people will think its enough for themselves, but nothing(science), and noone( no person) can ever disprove the existance of God. simply because of what God is if He exists. if He does He is beyond/above this universe and definitely beyond/above our perception/minds/whatever. the scientific method was made in order to measure and understand things in THIS UNIVERSE. as for philosophy, or people saying there is no “proof” of God’s existance, i find it respectable if they decide they dont know(Agnosticism). deciding that He must therefore not exist, is IMO stupid and arrogant(atheism).
[/quote]
Brother, you’re twisting your own logic to satisfy your beliefs. That’s fine if it makes you feel better, but don’t go making blanket statements about other people’s beliefs (or lack thereof…). Stating that no one can disprove the existence of God is exactly right. No one can PROVE the existence of God either. That’s why it’s called faith.
I am an atheist for reasons that would take pages upon pages to describe, not for a flippant observation (that you noted above). I don’t really agree with much that meangenes has said in his post, so try to keep things in perspective. Not all atheists are anti-religion, the same that not all Christians are in-bred, ignorant, red-neck, homophobic, bible-thumping assholes (thinking KKK here). Would you associate yourself with folks of that ilk? I think not.
Point being, you’re over-generalizing. Believe what you want; I think that freedom of and freedom from religion are our most important rights. But if you want say I’m stupid and arrogant for not thinking the same as you, then fuck you.
sorry if that came off as offensive but first you agree with me
then you say you are an atheist.
honestly if you agree with me then isnt it more honest to say you are an agnostic? If God exists, then i think its clear to anyone that He is all that matters. for anyone that doesnt know if He exists, then the question of if He does is IMO at least the most important one. so unless it was somehow(which is impossible so this is kinda of a meaningless sentence) PROVEN that God does not exist, then i would never be honestly an atheist.
btw i agree with you on this too.
nope, i dont even go to a church to start with, and im from greece but i know all too well all of the above.
[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
sorry if that came off as offensive but first you agree with me
Stating that no one can disprove the existence of God is exactly right.
then you say you are an atheist.
honestly if you agree with me then isnt it more honest to say you are an agnostic? If God exists, then i think its clear to anyone that He is all that matters. for anyone that doesnt know if He exists, then the question of if He does is IMO at least the most important one. so unless it was somehow(which is impossible so this is kinda of a meaningless sentence) PROVEN that God does not exist, then i would never be honestly an atheist.
btw i agree with you on this too.
No one can PROVE the existence of God either. That’s why it’s called faith.
are in-bred, ignorant, red-neck, homophobic, bible-thumping assholes (thinking KKK here). Would you associate yourself with folks of that ilk? I think not.
nope, i dont even go to a church to start with, and im from greece but i know all too well all of the above.[/quote]
Really it just comes down to your perspective and personal beliefs (philosophies may be a more relative term). I used to be an agnostic, but a big part of that belief is wanting there to be a higher power. I do not feel that want any more, hence the (slight) difference.
The difference in our arguments is very small and completely semantic. You said “for anyone that doesnt know if He exists, then the question of if He does is IMO at least the most important one”, but there isn’t a question for me. It’s not “God does not exist, does he?” it’s “God does not exist.” That is the basic difference between outlooks and why it’s impossible for us to argue rationally about religion. Everyone is going to have a different outlook because we all have different starting assumptions.
Fun to argue about though 
[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
maybe some people will think its enough for themselves, but nothing(science), and noone( no person) can ever disprove the existance of God. simply because of what God is if He exists. if He does He is beyond/above this universe and definitely beyond/above our perception/minds/whatever. the scientific method was made in order to measure and understand things in THIS UNIVERSE. as for philosophy, or people saying there is no “proof” of God’s existance, i find it respectable if they decide they dont know(Agnosticism). deciding that He must therefore not exist, is IMO stupid and arrogant(atheism).[/quote]
Not believing in something because there’s no proof it exists is niether stupid nor arrogant. Do you believe in every variant of god, for example? “I put it to you that we are both athiests, I simply believe in one fewer god than you” (I forget the source).
Another way to put it for you is this: I was born with no concept of god, that is a non-theist or athiest. No one has given me reason to accept a concept of god, any concept, therefore I do not believe that it exists.
Remember, you can never prove a negative but that doesn’t mean you have to be agnostic about every subject. If you want to believe that’s great, but understand that for some of us we reject a theory on any subject if proof is lacking.
[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
will to power:
Could you explain how this follows? I don’t see why the absense of a god means nihilism.
you may find truths, even “absolute” truths. its a fact that in most cases the stronger/fitter one survives or gets his way. yes. is that an absolute truth? suppose it is.
and i come back to what i said… so?
so you become free or an ubermensch as nietzsche said… or you spread your genes and make the species survive. you may find it as a point in life, but thats all there is to it. YOU find it as a reason to live. if there is no God, then there is noone that knows/decides/has set what THE goal of life or the universe’s is.
so if you believe He doesnt exist then do whatever you want, but still there is no point in life aside from whatever points you give to it.
does this make sense?
[/quote]
It makes sense, but I don’t see why it’s nihilism. As was described nicely earlier in this thread nihilism tends to stem from people who have given up religion judging the value of everything compared to a higher power they no longer believe in.
However that’s a failing that can occur from giving up religion, not a must or a permenant point of view or something that occurs to us who never accepted religion. What I’m saying is it’s not nihilism if you believe the points and values in life have meaning. Just because they aren’t set by a higher power does not make them less real or important.