Nich's Test/Tren Cycle

ok fellas time has come.

here is a boring simple cycle I am in the final stages and need a little bit reassurance. I will be using test prop/tren ace 50/50 like but only part of my cycle. please let me know which looks better to you guys.

1-12 test prop 50mg ED
8-12 tren ace 50mg ed
6 week stasis then taper using test prop

             or

1-8 tren 50mg ed
1-12 test prop 50mg ed
6 week stasis then taper

goal here is actually not for size it is for strength and will be dieting hardcore during this time also
up untill the taper when I will be tapering up the food and down on the gear at the same time.

ideas on how this can work better?
remember I already have the gear and this is all I am working with.
maybe change amounts,duration leave it be?

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
A 1:1 ratio of test:tren is not a good idea IMO.

I would run 2 x 6 week cycles, but that’s just me.[/quote]

please explain?

back to back test 6 weeks
then test/tren 6 weeks after pct?

or 2 x 6 weeks with tren/test?
sorry for the dumb questions I never had tren but really interested.

I’m also not comfortable with a 1-1 test-tren ratio. I personally recommend 5 parts test for every 3 parts nor19 at least. 3-2 and 2-1 are fine too.

If you are going to use prop 12 weeks is an awfully long time; from a convenince standpoint if nothing else. Might consider Enanthate for that duration. Its probably better/easier to taper with too.

The longer you are on the more shutdown you will be. So its true to say a gram a week for 6 weeks will not be as harsh on the system as 12 weeks at 500mg even though its the same amount of product. Having said that, recovery can be facilitated in many different ways. Many fellas have been on for much longer than 12 weeks and with a decent stasis and taper protocol they will come around fairly well and quick

I also advise you stop the 19-nor product before the test one - with an acetate ester it shouldnt be too bad - and i hope someone with Tren Ace personal experience can confirm/deny any extended shutdown to give a guide for length of time the test should be run longer. If it was me, i would do a 2:3 ratio and 6:8 week ratio of tren:test.

With what i know about acetate ester (HL), and about 19-Nor’s(specifically nandrolone) Running the test 1 extra week should suffice although i would do it by 2 weeks personally… So 6 weeks tren, 7-8 weeks test… plus as Saps and Altered mentioned above, it is a good rule of thumb to not have equal amounts of 19-nor’s to test, the test will struggle to keep ‘littleNick’ up.

JMO…

J

Its all about the esters. Deca nandrolone is recommended to be discontinued 2 weeks prior to stopping test. For something short like npp or tren ace 1 week is plenty; you could probably even get away with less but err on the side of caution

I fully agree with every point here except the every day injects part. Some people, like me, LOVE to inject every day. I am now injecting two to three times a day, every day, and I absolutely love it. AAS, HCG, Melanotan, whatever, stick it in me. I don’t ever get sick of sticking myself and I will probably miss it when I come off. Is something wrong with me?

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
Saps did a good job of explaining but since I have been suspended from my studies, I now have extra time on my hands :frowning:

Anyway, 12 weeks of ED injects will be an arse-ache.

12 weeks of intense cutting will be mentally and physically draining.

however, 6 weeks of intense cutting, followed by 4 weeks of ‘anabolic rebound’ (i.e. using more calories and a change in training) followed by another 6 weeks of intense cutting, would be:

A) mentally and physically much less demanding.

B) Arguably lead to greater body recomp changes, due to the interruption of the bodys attempts to maintain homeostasis.

Basically, after about 8 weeks, changes in physique will start to slow, as the body adapts. Overrcome this by utilising shorter periods, with a complete change of emphasis in between.

Does that make sense?[/quote]

ok so heres what i got then
w 1-8 TP 75mg ed
1-6 TA 25mg ed
4 week stasis with taper

the tren I know it would be smart to have something like caber for sides but at 175mg weekly would that even be needed?
maybe some caber and a’dex on hand just to be safe?
look a little better?

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I fully agree with every point here except the every day injects part. Some people, like me, LOVE to inject every day. I am now injecting two to three times a day, every day, and I absolutely love it. AAS, HCG, Melanotan, whatever, stick it in me. I don’t ever get sick of sticking myself and I will probably miss it when I come off. Is something wrong with me?

AlteredState wrote:
Saps did a good job of explaining but since I have been suspended from my studies, I now have extra time on my hands :frowning:

Anyway, 12 weeks of ED injects will be an arse-ache.

12 weeks of intense cutting will be mentally and physically draining.

however, 6 weeks of intense cutting, followed by 4 weeks of ‘anabolic rebound’ (i.e. using more calories and a change in training) followed by another 6 weeks of intense cutting, would be:

A) mentally and physically much less demanding.

B) Arguably lead to greater body recomp changes, due to the interruption of the bodys attempts to maintain homeostasis.

Basically, after about 8 weeks, changes in physique will start to slow, as the body adapts. Overrcome this by utilising shorter periods, with a complete change of emphasis in between.

Does that make sense?

[/quote]

I am exactly the same - its the addictive personality - Needle Fixation it is called… it is quite an addiction…

I am like a kid in a sweet store in needle exchanges…

[quote]Nich wrote:
ok so heres what i got then
w 1-8 TP 75mg ed
1-6 TA 25mg ed
4 week stasis with taper

the tren I know it would be smart to have something like caber for sides but at 175mg weekly would that even be needed?
maybe some caber and a’dex on hand just to be safe?
look a little better?[/quote]

Id personally bump the tren up a bit to a minimum of 30-35mg/day. Im finding the 50mg/day that im using about perfect for myself. Now up to .5mg/day adex and 275mg B6 per day.

why is waiting so hard
I finished my test today,filtered it thru a .2um whatman but I was sloppy with it because I will be refiltering it.
also I didnt add ba or bb yet so its just straight oil
but sitting here looking at a shoe box full of pins and a handfull of perfectly clear test kind of erks me
grrrrrr!!!

anyways,tren is on its way along with my solvents to finish up so soon This will be a log and not some rambling taking up bandwidth.

why is it tempting?

cycle started I will actually be taking the advice of the 2x6 week cycles that was mentioned above.this time test only
second time around will be Test Tren more on that later.
cycle is
70mg ED Test Prop total~490 weekly
6 weeks
adex 6 weeks starting at .5 mg Eod will adjust as needed
after 2 weeks I will see how I feel and I may double it to 140mg ED total~980 weekly for the remaining 4 weeks (debatable)
I am still weighing the pros and cons of the stasis taper and the classic Nolva PCT I do have enough supplies for either direction.

real simple diet along with lots of green tea and water.
low carb days is small amounts of oatmeal,no more than half banana,steak,chicken,eggs,beans,greens,skim milk

carb up days,whole grain pasta,brown rice,salads,whole milk is the difference
basicly how I already eat just strict on the portions and timing as I eat the amounts I want when I am hungry.
supplmented with lots of flax,whey protein Isolate post workout along with gatorade,mega dosing fish oil 2 times a day,and HRX for hunger and extra energy(limited to one a day pre-work out and one no-carb energy drink)

           starting stats

5’8"
292 lbs
right forearm 13"
right Bicep flexed 18"
chest 49"
waist at largest part 55"(hopefully by counteracting cortisol with the test I can get this down)
right quad 26"
right calf 19"
inaccurate hand held device says 31.1% bf I will use this not as true measurment of fat but to track fat loss. true BF was around 26% as of couple months ago
will measure 2 more times
once to start,week 3,and after pct

             WARNING!!!!
          Long disclaimer:

its odd and most times frowned upon someone using AAS to get smaller but trust me this is no shortcut,or magic pill.
I work as hard as many I see in the gym and many I hear on this site I have been built like a midget samoan for the last 5 years and tried everything from starving and getting myself an eating disorder ,to drinking nothing but MRP shakes for weeks both becoming fater and weak,to “doing it right” with good diet and exersize.
I am not afraid of a treadmill or a bike because of the energy and effort it takes to just move almost 300 pounds to the extent that I do and the amount of good food I eat to simply feel human I get bigger.
I drop in overall BF% but I have a very hard time geting smaller.
after blood tests confirming high Estro and cortisol and low T(borderline they say) and after docs saying I am as healthy as a man half my size except for the hormone stuff and for tha treason nothing should be done besides what I already do,I chose this route I am useing this to aide in a very rigorous routiene and diet that without help would no doubt wear on me physicly and psycicologicly to the point of potential failure.
My goals CAN be reached without AAS,however it will take me a very long time and the longer I stay this size the longer it will cause potential damage and the harder it will be to get off,and I have weighed the outcomes of both and remaining a 300 pound man is for me more dangerous than a couple mild cycles of AAS.

I experimented with AAS and many other drugs before so this is not my first time around.
hopefully it will help someone else in the future by being documented.Albiet Poorly documented.
I see no reports of AAS and obesisity mainly due to the fact most obese people are that way due to lifestyle and not a freak like myself.
had to get that out the way for the newbs,and now that it is,it will never be said again.
Now on with the freak show

         work out (I do not take any longer rests between sets other than to change the weight unless otherwise noted)

20 mins treadmill 5.5 mph 8% incline

seated rows close grip 3x10 3-5 sec rest
pull downs wide grip 3x10 3-5 secs rest
bent over rows 3x10 3-5 sec rest
(rest is long enough to take a drink of water from a bottle already within reach)

10 mins treadmill 5 mph 8% incline

DB shoulder press 3x10,3x10,3x10 (30 sec rest)
standing mil press 1x10,1x10,1x10 (adding 10 pounds per set)
dumb bell shrugs 3x10,3x10 (1 min rest)
deadlift 1x2 Hammer strength machine (very dissapointed but after seeing they were not 45.5 lb plates but they were 45.5kg plates,not so much)

5 min treadmill 5 mph no incline
20 min recumbant bike lvl 5 @ 90 rpm
5 min stair stepper normal walking pace on toes on edge of stairs.

walking on the treadmill will turn into jogging as weeks go buy the lifts will be different body parts obviously

4 days cardio light weight split
1 day max effort lifts moderate carbs pre and post workout no cardio
2 days rest one day carb up with higher k-cals.

please comment,am I totally nuts?

you said this cycle is mainly intended for strength gains. now i have never taken tren but i have taken a lot of gear while cutting and its pretty hard to focus on strength while “dieting hardcore”, The energy simply isent there compared to when eating a mass gaining diet imo. Also, focus on stretching before and after workouts because lifting heavy on a cutting diet/schedule is very hard on your joints/tendons and your more prone to injury. Im not sure what you are expecting strength wise but unless your eating big, i wouldn’t expect big strength gains. It should get you shredded though if u keep up with your diet and cardio.

Anyway not trying to shoot you down, all in all looks like a good cycle and maybe you respond better to gear then me. just some feedback based on my exp. Gl

[quote]Dave1188 wrote:
you said this cycle is mainly intended for strength gains. now i have never taken tren but i have taken a lot of gear while cutting and its pretty hard to focus on strength while “dieting hardcore”, The energy simply isent there compared to when eating a mass gaining diet imo. Also, focus on stretching before and after workouts because lifting heavy on a cutting diet/schedule is very hard on your joints/tendons and your more prone to injury. Im not sure what you are expecting strength wise but unless your eating big, i wouldn’t expect big strength gains. It should get you shredded though if u keep up with your diet and cardio.

Anyway not trying to shoot you down, all in all looks like a good cycle and maybe you respond better to gear then me. just some feedback based on my exp. Gl [/quote]

I really dont write well Im quite uneducated so forgive me if I cause some misunderstanding.

see my problem is that I cant diet down and work hard enough at the same time to maintain the muscle I do have or to do any good.

thats why I was thinking adding tren purley for its strength aspects but the problem is its a cardio killer and I need alot of that
that is why I will cut down as much as I can without it then add it to the next cycle to add some more lean muscle later on.also I am naturaly an asshole and the aggresion i heard with tren scares me. I want it to be a little more predictable first if thats even possible.

thank you for the stretching tip,I dont do that enough but I will be training again after all this (many,many,years karate,MMA) so I need to get the mobility back too and that will help.

I really dont care about the strength right now,that will come I just want the help cutting down to a normal size for me again.

well then for cutting fat, this cycle + cardio + diet should be great for cutting fat and maintaing muscle. Focus on loosing the fat and staying healthy ( and uninjured ).

Im not joking about the stretching lol i am in physical therapy for my chest right now from lifting real heavy and not thinking twice about stretching. I learned the hard way and am miserable now. hopefully i will be working upper body again in a month of so. hope that helps

alright
been 4 shots now and I think this is actually starting to kick in.I acyually chose to kick it up from 75mg to 140mg so its 140mg ED
I heard some people say prop hits you about second week.
but day 4 I am actually more thirsty than I have been in a long time and not feeling different really just a little flushed and giggly my girl asked me what the hell was wrong with me,she said I was being unuseally nice and asked what the hell I wanted.
think I just wanted booty :wink:

in the morning I am going to hit it really hard and see if theres any difference.
not expecting much really but we will see.this is my first cycle since 03 and first using the method I am using now.

little mini update.

this stuff is NASTY.

some days I feel wonderful other days I feel just tired and sluggish.
I feel great after he shot but then towards the next day I feel like ass untill the next shot.
I would be better off with 2 times a day injects but screw all that,Im using a 20g pin and its bad enough finding spots.
hit a nerve in my leg last night that was fun,I had the pin in almost all the way and I bumbed it in the rest the way and a shock went thru my leg and up my neck.

literaly said wow,f**k that.
as far as progress I have no idea yet and my lifts are improved slightly I am able to do my normal heavy sets that I did 3x5 with I am not doing 30 rep rest pause type reps now.

I kind of make a spectacal of myself when im in the gym I started going middle the night so not to draw too much attention.

kind of weird when the fat guy at the gym is doing 200 pound seated rows for 30 reps 2 times in a visit.

I will give this stuff another week and then I might go on a run and pick up some enth. add tha tin for more stable levels.

I’ve been reading around on these boards and i still haven’t found the answer i’m looking for, so don’t get upset when i ask - believe me, i’ve searched for the answer here and all over the internet!

i’m new to the gear and i have some guidance from a friend, but he’s the only one i know personally who can “help”. i don’t fully trust his “expertise” now that i’ve started my tren cycle. i’m two weeks in now on 400mg/wk tren e and starting test c in a couple days (b/c i don’t have it yet).

the question is should i run HCG along with these or is it not really necessary? like i said i’ve read a lot and the answer still isn’t clear. my friend tells me it’s not necessary and to not worry about it at all because it’s my first cycle and it’s the amt. i’m doing wouldn’t even really be considered “on” by most body builders’ standards.

i tend to think he’s not educated enough to tell me this. unfortunately, i thought he was far more educated than he really is before i started this. i’ve spent the money, though, so i’m going thru with it and i haven’t heard anything that contradicts my method.

can someone help?? it’s just that one small, but very important detail, i need to know more about. what about the HCG? Do i need it during this cycle or not? if so, how much and how often?

again, i apologize if i’m “beating a dead horse” because i’m sure this is discussed in depth on this site somewhere and i just can’t find it.

thanks to whoever can throw me a bone here!

p.s. i’m not so much worried about shut down - more about perm. affects of gyno.

[quote]CytoMelvin wrote:
I’ve been reading around on these boards and i still haven’t found the answer i’m looking for, so don’t get upset when i ask - believe me, i’ve searched for the answer here and all over the internet!

i’m new to the gear and i have some guidance from a friend, but he’s the only one i know personally who can “help”. i don’t fully trust his “expertise” now that i’ve started my tren cycle. i’m two weeks in now on 400mg/wk tren e and starting test c in a couple days (b/c i don’t have it yet).

the question is should i run HCG along with these or is it not really necessary? like i said i’ve read a lot and the answer still isn’t clear.

my friend tells me it’s not necessary and to not worry about it at all because it’s my first cycle and it’s the amt. i’m doing wouldn’t even really be considered “on” by most body builders’ standards.

i tend to think he’s not educated enough to tell me this. unfortunately, i thought he was far more educated than he really is before i started this. i’ve spent the money, though, so i’m going thru with it and i haven’t heard anything that contradicts my method.

can someone help?? it’s just that one small, but very important detail, i need to know more about. what about the HCG? Do i need it during this cycle or not? if so, how much and how often?

again, i apologize if i’m “beating a dead horse” because i’m sure this is discussed in depth on this site somewhere and i just can’t find it.

thanks to whoever can throw me a bone here!

p.s. i’m not so much worried about shut down - more about perm. affects of gyno.[/quote]

Cyto - Start your own thread about this. Same question but your own heading. Post up your full stats too when you start your thread.

I strongly suspect the first thing you’ll hear is why on earth would you start your cycle without having all the compounds you need right there in your possession. Also prepare to have a little flaming and ass kicking thrown at you as you clearly haven’t researched shit.