I think it’s a good trade for both teams. You guys get a first rounder and a possible third the following year. Bucs get Revis, but he isn’t guaranteed any money. Revis must be pretty confident he will come back and play good after the ACL.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Bucs get Revis, but he isn’t guaranteed any money. [/quote]
This fact alone makes it a terrible trade for NYJ.
Actually, it was really everything that led to driving Revis to accept such a deal with another team that was terrible. But no doubt the NY media will spell this out much better than I can.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Mildly disappointed in the Revis trade. Wanted 3 picks. [/quote]
Agree with this. You’re giving up a tried-and-tested potential future HOFer for 1 guaranteed pick? Hmmm.
I think what got that deal done was that Woody didn’t want to pay what Revis was asking.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Bucs get Revis, but he isn’t guaranteed any money. [/quote]
This fact alone makes it a terrible trade for NYJ.
Actually, it was really everything that led to driving Revis to accept such a deal with another team that was terrible. But no doubt the NY media will spell this out much better than I can.
[/quote]
I was listening to schefter and while its not technically guaranteed it is basically guaranteed as they are not going to cut him in the first 2 years, which would basically be 16 million instead of 6 in the first year.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Once Crabtree had a real QB throwing him to instead of that fucking mongoloid, Smith, he took off. Also, keep in mind that he plays on a team that runs far more than the players you named. As far as explosive after the catch guys, Sproles and Spiller aren’t receivers, so they aren’t relevant when I say that Crabtree is the best RECEIVER after the catch. Maybe you missed that part. Besides, Sproles and Spiller don’t break tackles like Crabtree can.
Thomas is a legitimate threat to my claim, so I’ll grant you that. But Crabtree is FAR better at converting on third down and he also catches FAR more passes and accumulates more yards per route run. And production per route run is the best way to compare Crabtree to other receivers since guys like Thomas and Welker play in offenses that throw the ball about 2/3 of the time and Crabtree plays within an offense that throws half the time.[/quote]
I didn’t miss it at all. When Spiller/Sproles are no longer in the backfield as the ball gets snapped, they are absolutely considered receivers for that particular down. [/nitpick]
But your points about A Smith and offensive philosophy in general skewing Crabtree’s stats are fair enough.
[/quote]
Those points are fair. But I really don’t even believe that Crabtree is the best receiver after the catch on the 49ers, much less in the NFL. Vernon Davis is better after the catch than Crabtree. And I dunno about most other fans but if any team I am routing for is playing the Niners I worry far more about him that I do Crabtree because he can break a game wide open in a way Crabtree just does not.
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Once Crabtree had a real QB throwing him to instead of that fucking mongoloid, Smith, he took off. Also, keep in mind that he plays on a team that runs far more than the players you named. As far as explosive after the catch guys, Sproles and Spiller aren’t receivers, so they aren’t relevant when I say that Crabtree is the best RECEIVER after the catch. Maybe you missed that part. Besides, Sproles and Spiller don’t break tackles like Crabtree can.
Thomas is a legitimate threat to my claim, so I’ll grant you that. But Crabtree is FAR better at converting on third down and he also catches FAR more passes and accumulates more yards per route run. And production per route run is the best way to compare Crabtree to other receivers since guys like Thomas and Welker play in offenses that throw the ball about 2/3 of the time and Crabtree plays within an offense that throws half the time.[/quote]
I didn’t miss it at all. When Spiller/Sproles are no longer in the backfield as the ball gets snapped, they are absolutely considered receivers for that particular down. [/nitpick]
But your points about A Smith and offensive philosophy in general skewing Crabtree’s stats are fair enough.
[/quote]
Those points are fair. But I really don’t even believe that Crabtree is the best receiver after the catch on the 49ers, much less in the NFL. Vernon Davis is better after the catch than Crabtree. And I dunno about most other fans but if any team I am routing for is playing the Niners I worry far more about him that I do Crabtree because he can break a game wide open in a way Crabtree just does not.[/quote]
If you think that Davis is better after the catch than Crabtree is then you haven’t watched the two of them play.
Davis is FAR worse at running with the ball after the catch than Crabtree. Davis can’t juke anyone and he doesn’t break tackles worth shit. Davis’ YAC comes from just plain outrunning a guy after getting a step on someone and making the catch. But when it comes to catching the ball in traffic or with a guy on him/in front of him he doesn’t compare to Crabtree at all. Crabtree was averaging about 2 more YAC than Davis last year, which is significant.
Trust me, I’ve watched every game the two of them have played in their career and Crabtree may not be faster, but he’s shiftier, has a better stiff-arm, runs in traffic better and even does better after initial contact. He’s an underrated receiver and with a full season of Kaepernick throwing to him he’s going to prove to be a legitimate top-tier WR this coming season.
Quite frankly, I’ve never been all that impressed with Davis as a pass-catching TE. He has absolutely horrible hands and like I said, he doesn’t accumulate post-catch yardage the way Crabtree does, even though he’s bigger and more dynamic. In fact, as freakishly athletic as Davis is, he’s a bit of a workout warrior and not so much a freakishly athletic football player since it doesn’t translate to production on the field all that much.
He disappeared for about half the season last year. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen him in the open field with a DB in front of him and fail to get past the guy. Someone who is allegedly as fast as most DBs in the league and is obviously way bigger than them should be a better open-field runner than Davis is. The only time he seems to make big plays in the secondary is when the defense fucks up and they get into a mismatch situation or blow a coverage somewhere.
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Once Crabtree had a real QB throwing him to instead of that fucking mongoloid, Smith, he took off. Also, keep in mind that he plays on a team that runs far more than the players you named. As far as explosive after the catch guys, Sproles and Spiller aren’t receivers, so they aren’t relevant when I say that Crabtree is the best RECEIVER after the catch. Maybe you missed that part. Besides, Sproles and Spiller don’t break tackles like Crabtree can.
Thomas is a legitimate threat to my claim, so I’ll grant you that. But Crabtree is FAR better at converting on third down and he also catches FAR more passes and accumulates more yards per route run. And production per route run is the best way to compare Crabtree to other receivers since guys like Thomas and Welker play in offenses that throw the ball about 2/3 of the time and Crabtree plays within an offense that throws half the time.[/quote]
I didn’t miss it at all. When Spiller/Sproles are no longer in the backfield as the ball gets snapped, they are absolutely considered receivers for that particular down. [/nitpick]
But your points about A Smith and offensive philosophy in general skewing Crabtree’s stats are fair enough.
[/quote]
Those points are fair. But I really don’t even believe that Crabtree is the best receiver after the catch on the 49ers, much less in the NFL. Vernon Davis is better after the catch than Crabtree. And I dunno about most other fans but if any team I am routing for is playing the Niners I worry far more about him that I do Crabtree because he can break a game wide open in a way Crabtree just does not.[/quote]
Also, while most other fans might fear Davis more, most other COACHES are starting to fear Crabtree more, especially on third down. I know for sure that when it’s third down Crabtree is the one who represents the most danger to the defense.
Crabtree saw more targets (49) on third/fourth down than all but four receivers last year, and he had 32 receptions in those situations, good for third in the NFL. His five TDs on third down was tied for tops in the league.
Here is the proof in the pudding as far as Crabtree being the best YAC receiver in the NFL, though:
32 times Crabtree caught a pass short of the first down marker and still gained a first down, second-most in the NFL. However, 17 of those plays came on third or fourth down. Welker and Ray Rice had the next most such plays, at 12 and 10, respectively. No one else had more than 7.
Only Wes Welker had a higher percentage of his receiving yards come after the catch, although Crabtree averaged more YAC than Welker did. Crabtree might also be the top slot receiver in the league, given that he gained 3.71 yard per route run while playing in the slot, tops in the NFL. Only Calvin Johnson had more than 3 yards per route run.
I encourage you to check out Crabtree’s highlights from the NE game and the playoff game against Green Bay for some evidence as to how good he is after the catch.
And keep in mind that half of those stats from last year came with a fucking retard of a QB in Alex Smith. When Kaepernick took over Crabtree’s stats absolutely blew up. Expect more of the same next year, when Crabtree solidifies himself as a legit top-5 WR in the NFL.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
32 times Crabtree caught a pass short of the first down marker and still gained a first down, second-most in the NFL. However, 17 of those plays came on third or fourth down. Welker and Ray Rice had the next most such plays, at 12 and 10, respectively. No one else had more than 7.
Only Wes Welker had a higher percentage of his receiving yards come after the catch, although Crabtree averaged more YAC than Welker did. Crabtree might also be the top slot receiver in the league, given that he gained 3.71 yard per route run while playing in the slot, tops in the NFL. Only Calvin Johnson had more than 3 yards per route run.[/quote]
Well played, one cannot say your argument is without support.
And looking fwd to fantasy season – my main league is full of Whiner fans – where I can much more comfortably drive his auction price up now. So, thanks for that.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
32 times Crabtree caught a pass short of the first down marker and still gained a first down, second-most in the NFL. However, 17 of those plays came on third or fourth down. Welker and Ray Rice had the next most such plays, at 12 and 10, respectively. No one else had more than 7.
Only Wes Welker had a higher percentage of his receiving yards come after the catch, although Crabtree averaged more YAC than Welker did. Crabtree might also be the top slot receiver in the league, given that he gained 3.71 yard per route run while playing in the slot, tops in the NFL. Only Calvin Johnson had more than 3 yards per route run.[/quote]
Well played, one cannot say your argument is without support.
And looking fwd to fantasy season – my main league is full of Whiner fans – where I can much more comfortably drive his auction price up now. So, thanks for that.
[/quote]
My ego is WAY too fragile to make an argument that can be easily torn apart.
I’m really looking forward to fantasy football this year as well. I picked up Kaepernick before his first start against the Bears and plugged him into the starting lineup the rest of the season. Now he’s my keeper, even though I had Eli Manning and Cam Newton at QB and Marshawn Lynch at RB.
I’d like to get back in on FF this year too. I missed it last year but played the first with MattyXL and Derek and Westcoast. I think that was 2 seasons ago…?
No problem dude we played last year as well, Ill count you in. The fee has been raised to $50
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Once Crabtree had a real QB throwing him to instead of that fucking mongoloid, Smith, he took off. Also, keep in mind that he plays on a team that runs far more than the players you named. As far as explosive after the catch guys, Sproles and Spiller aren’t receivers, so they aren’t relevant when I say that Crabtree is the best RECEIVER after the catch. Maybe you missed that part. Besides, Sproles and Spiller don’t break tackles like Crabtree can.
Thomas is a legitimate threat to my claim, so I’ll grant you that. But Crabtree is FAR better at converting on third down and he also catches FAR more passes and accumulates more yards per route run. And production per route run is the best way to compare Crabtree to other receivers since guys like Thomas and Welker play in offenses that throw the ball about 2/3 of the time and Crabtree plays within an offense that throws half the time.[/quote]
I didn’t miss it at all. When Spiller/Sproles are no longer in the backfield as the ball gets snapped, they are absolutely considered receivers for that particular down. [/nitpick]
But your points about A Smith and offensive philosophy in general skewing Crabtree’s stats are fair enough.
[/quote]
Those points are fair. But I really don’t even believe that Crabtree is the best receiver after the catch on the 49ers, much less in the NFL. Vernon Davis is better after the catch than Crabtree. And I dunno about most other fans but if any team I am routing for is playing the Niners I worry far more about him that I do Crabtree because he can break a game wide open in a way Crabtree just does not.[/quote]
Also, while most other fans might fear Davis more, most other COACHES are starting to fear Crabtree more, especially on third down. I know for sure that when it’s third down Crabtree is the one who represents the most danger to the defense.
Crabtree saw more targets (49) on third/fourth down than all but four receivers last year, and he had 32 receptions in those situations, good for third in the NFL. His five TDs on third down was tied for tops in the league.
Here is the proof in the pudding as far as Crabtree being the best YAC receiver in the NFL, though:
32 times Crabtree caught a pass short of the first down marker and still gained a first down, second-most in the NFL. However, 17 of those plays came on third or fourth down. Welker and Ray Rice had the next most such plays, at 12 and 10, respectively. No one else had more than 7.
Only Wes Welker had a higher percentage of his receiving yards come after the catch, although Crabtree averaged more YAC than Welker did. Crabtree might also be the top slot receiver in the league, given that he gained 3.71 yard per route run while playing in the slot, tops in the NFL. Only Calvin Johnson had more than 3 yards per route run.
I encourage you to check out Crabtree’s highlights from the NE game and the playoff game against Green Bay for some evidence as to how good he is after the catch.
And keep in mind that half of those stats from last year came with a fucking retard of a QB in Alex Smith. When Kaepernick took over Crabtree’s stats absolutely blew up. Expect more of the same next year, when Crabtree solidifies himself as a legit top-5 WR in the NFL.
I checked some of your stuff and I your not pulling numbers out of your butt (not that I thought you were) but to this point I will have to see Crabtree put up numbers like that for another year or two before I am ready to put him in that upper level. I still think also that 9ers fans are being unfair to Smith. In the regular season, he had the same number of attempts as Kap yet had a higher completion percentage, he threw two more interceptions, but three more touchdowns. And I know Smith didn’t throw deep to Crabtree as much but two of the interceptions he threw were on deeper routes to Crabtree, which those two never seemed to be on quite the same page, much like Vernon Davis and Kap. I am not saying I would take Smith over Kap, just don’t understand the disdain for Smith. And one of the things helping Crabtree get his YAC up is Kap’s mobility keeping the LB’s at home allowing Davis to stretch secondary a little more because a big body like that will usually draw a double therefore Crabtree is just not meeting as much resistance as soon as he was with Smith making those YAC numbers go up.
Matty, can I get on that list as well?
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Once Crabtree had a real QB throwing him to instead of that fucking mongoloid, Smith, he took off. Also, keep in mind that he plays on a team that runs far more than the players you named. As far as explosive after the catch guys, Sproles and Spiller aren’t receivers, so they aren’t relevant when I say that Crabtree is the best RECEIVER after the catch. Maybe you missed that part. Besides, Sproles and Spiller don’t break tackles like Crabtree can.
Thomas is a legitimate threat to my claim, so I’ll grant you that. But Crabtree is FAR better at converting on third down and he also catches FAR more passes and accumulates more yards per route run. And production per route run is the best way to compare Crabtree to other receivers since guys like Thomas and Welker play in offenses that throw the ball about 2/3 of the time and Crabtree plays within an offense that throws half the time.[/quote]
I didn’t miss it at all. When Spiller/Sproles are no longer in the backfield as the ball gets snapped, they are absolutely considered receivers for that particular down. [/nitpick]
But your points about A Smith and offensive philosophy in general skewing Crabtree’s stats are fair enough.
[/quote]
Those points are fair. But I really don’t even believe that Crabtree is the best receiver after the catch on the 49ers, much less in the NFL. Vernon Davis is better after the catch than Crabtree. And I dunno about most other fans but if any team I am routing for is playing the Niners I worry far more about him that I do Crabtree because he can break a game wide open in a way Crabtree just does not.[/quote]
Also, while most other fans might fear Davis more, most other COACHES are starting to fear Crabtree more, especially on third down. I know for sure that when it’s third down Crabtree is the one who represents the most danger to the defense.
Crabtree saw more targets (49) on third/fourth down than all but four receivers last year, and he had 32 receptions in those situations, good for third in the NFL. His five TDs on third down was tied for tops in the league.
Here is the proof in the pudding as far as Crabtree being the best YAC receiver in the NFL, though:
32 times Crabtree caught a pass short of the first down marker and still gained a first down, second-most in the NFL. However, 17 of those plays came on third or fourth down. Welker and Ray Rice had the next most such plays, at 12 and 10, respectively. No one else had more than 7.
Only Wes Welker had a higher percentage of his receiving yards come after the catch, although Crabtree averaged more YAC than Welker did. Crabtree might also be the top slot receiver in the league, given that he gained 3.71 yard per route run while playing in the slot, tops in the NFL. Only Calvin Johnson had more than 3 yards per route run.
I encourage you to check out Crabtree’s highlights from the NE game and the playoff game against Green Bay for some evidence as to how good he is after the catch.
And keep in mind that half of those stats from last year came with a fucking retard of a QB in Alex Smith. When Kaepernick took over Crabtree’s stats absolutely blew up. Expect more of the same next year, when Crabtree solidifies himself as a legit top-5 WR in the NFL.
I checked some of your stuff and I your not pulling numbers out of your butt (not that I thought you were) but to this point I will have to see Crabtree put up numbers like that for another year or two before I am ready to put him in that upper level. I still think also that 9ers fans are being unfair to Smith. In the regular season, he had the same number of attempts as Kap yet had a higher completion percentage, he threw two more interceptions, but three more touchdowns. And I know Smith didn’t throw deep to Crabtree as much but two of the interceptions he threw were on deeper routes to Crabtree, which those two never seemed to be on quite the same page, much like Vernon Davis and Kap. I am not saying I would take Smith over Kap, just don’t understand the disdain for Smith. And one of the things helping Crabtree get his YAC up is Kap’s mobility keeping the LB’s at home allowing Davis to stretch secondary a little more because a big body like that will usually draw a double therefore Crabtree is just not meeting as much resistance as soon as he was with Smith making those YAC numbers go up.[/quote]
Smith wasn’t horrible, but he wasn’t going to win any games for the Niners, either. He didn’t fuck things up, which is a good thing to say about a backup QB when he has to replace the starter for a game or two.
Read the end of that article I linked from profootballfocus. The types of throws that Smith made vs. the type that Kaepernick made speak volumes. Of course Smith had a higher completion percentage. He was making easy, safe, short throws. Smith is/was garbage and the Chiefs would be stupid to not look at grabbing a QB in this year’s draft if they can get a guy they like somewhere. Smith is the type of QB that keeps the seat warm until the REAL QB can take over. He fucking sucks and there’s no way Niners fans are being unfair at all. People look at that game against New Orleans in the playoffs and think that that was typical of him when it was actually a completely aberrational performance by him.
The following game, the NFC Championship Game, was actually typical Smith. He didn’t lose the game but when it was time to make a play he simply couldn’t make one. The NFL is all about making plays, whether it’s from the pocket or scrambling or whatever, and he simply doesn’t make enough of them to be anything more than a serviceable guy until you can find a real franchise QB. Take the 2011 Niners squad, who had a FAR better defense than last year’s version, and put Kaepernick in there and the Niners beat the Giants in the Championship Game and probably roll up the Patriots.
If u guys haven’t already seen Easterbrook’s pre-draft column, its up to his usual high standards:
It’s official. James Harrison is a Bengal. I should want him to break his leg first snap but I don’t. He helped them win two Lombardi’s. The first time his new team mates hit the iron with him they are in for a treat. Dude squats 600 for reps rehabing lol. Pound for pound the strongest guy on the team.
On a positive note Pittsburgh matched the GB offer for NT Steve McLendon. I’ve been crowing about this guy for a couple years now. DC for some reason barely played him even though he always seemed to produce when he came off the bench. I expect him to have a breakout year.
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
Matty, can I get on that list as well?[/quote]
Yessir!
Training at my gym today, and I noticed a tall kid lifting that looked super familiar, so I punched up who I thought it was
Oday Aboushi. Hes a local kid born in Brooklyn and living in Staten Island…nice kid and I wish him the best of luck. Interesting background too, from what I have read he could be a 2nd or 3rd rounder…good fit for the jets.
I dont think he was 310 lbs though, I found him, relatively speaking narrow and somewhat thin for an o lineman
Mayock’s Mock Draft, one of the few mock drafts that matter. Even had his own little one hour show on NFL Network. It’s a good one.
Both Kiper/Mayock have the Bears taking Manti Te’o… but tbh I’d prefer him over Ogletree. If Cooper, Warmack, and DJ Fluker are gone, then Manti is coming to Chicago…
So fucking excited for tomorrow. I’ll be online to post random crap you guys should be too.