NFL Draft

Off Topic
21

[quote]KO421 wrote:
As a Raiders fan Saturday will be stressfull, a #1 pick QB is always hard and could very easily lead to a few more 2-4 win seasons if it dosn’t go right.

the main concern is the line works somewhat decent this year, and the offensive playbook isn’t something from the 1960’s

What does everyone else think of the Jamarcus hype?[/quote]

I am a huge Raider fan. If they take Jamarcus, I may actually throw up in my mouth (just a little bit…).

He might be a good quarterback if he’s given the chance to learn on a team with a solid veteran starter, in a simple system and with a great offensive line. That team is obviously not the Raiders.

Their line probably isn’t as bad as it looked last year – I blame the coaching. But I don’t think it will start off stellar either, and may not improve if the new OC and line coach aren’t improvements.

If they were going to do something to make me smile, they would get a solid veteran QB known for good decision-making in a trade or off waivers or something, and take Calvin Johnson with the first pick. Or, in the alternative, trade down and get a either a solid DE like Gaines Adams or the bookend tackle Joe Thomas to put on the left, with Gallery on the right (who will hopefully get his act together with new coaching – he is a monster). Actually, the best pick would be for them to grab Adrian Peterson, but they won’t do that as they have Garner and just signed Dominick Rhodes.

As I was shouting expletives at my screen last year when they passed on Matt Leinert, I don’t have high hopes. Michael Huff may end up being a good safety, but damn it they needed a QB and Leinert will be the best of his class and of the few years before and after.

22

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
KO421 wrote:
As a Raiders fan Saturday will be stressfull, a #1 pick QB is always hard and could very easily lead to a few more 2-4 win seasons if it dosn’t go right.

the main concern is the line works somewhat decent this year, and the offensive playbook isn’t something from the 1960’s

What does everyone else think of the Jamarcus hype?

I am a huge Raider fan. If they take Jamarcus, I may actually throw up in my mouth (just a little bit…).

He might be a good quarterback if he’s given the chance to learn on a team with a solid veteran starter, in a simple system and with a great offensive line. That team is obviously not the Raiders.

Their line probably isn’t as bad as it looked last year – I blame the coaching. But I don’t think it will start off stellar either, and may not improve if the new OC and line coach aren’t improvements.

If they were going to do something to make me smile, they would get a solid veteran QB known for good decision-making in a trade or off waivers or something, and take Calvin Johnson with the first pick. Or, in the alternative, trade down and get a either a solid DE like Gaines Adams or the bookend tackle Joe Thomas to put on the left, with Gallery on the right (who will hopefully get his act together with new coaching – he is a monster). Actually, the best pick would be for them to grab Adrian Peterson, but they won’t do that as they have Garner and just signed Dominick Rhodes.

As I was shouting expletives at my screen last year when they passed on Matt Leinert, I don’t have high hopes. Michael Huff may end up being a good safety, but damn it they needed a QB and Leinert will be the best of his class and of the few years before and after.
[/quote]

I’m with you on this one at first I kind of liked JaMarcus but after much review I think this is a very very risky pick and not the best fit in Oakland, plus if we pick him and he busts it will be a good 3-5 years more of crap.

If Gruden can make a deal with the Raiders I think trading down to 4 and getting Joe Thomas or Gaines Adams would be a good move along with some more later round picks. (or maybe 1 of tampas 15 qbs? Aslong as it is not Garcia)

or if Quinn is availble at 4 I would snatch him up. He might not have all the physical tools to cut it in the NFL but you can tell his work ethic and game planing will be spot on and he will give it all he gots trying.

I didn’t want them to pick Leinart at the time but now…

I think you are trying to remember good days there is no Garner in the backfield anymore! haha I know you meant Jordan.

23

I am a Texans fan and we need the following:

Everything.

24

[quote]KO421 wrote:
…
If Gruden can make a deal with the Raiders I think trading down to 4 and getting Joe Thomas or Gaines Adams would be a good move along with some more later round picks. (or maybe 1 of tampas 15 qbs? Aslong as it is not Garcia)[/quote]

The ultimate perfect fit to me would be Trent Green, but that’s just not going to happen - unless Trent wants to stick it to the Chiefs for not re-signing him instead of going out to Miami. For a longer-term fix, Tim Rattay (one of Tampa’s 15 QBs…) would be a good fit I think. Brad Johnson would also merit consideration, but he doesn’t have the arm to take advantage of Porter and Moss.

Agree with you on Garcia.

[quote]KO421 wrote:

or if Quinn is availble at 4 I would snatch him up. He might not have all the physical tools to cut it in the NFL but you can tell his work ethic and game planing will be spot on and he will give it all he gots trying.[/quote]

I think Quinn could be good – I think his best fit is in a West Coast style offense, but he’s got a good arm and seems to be able to read defenses well. I’d personally still rather have him sit a year too – I think all rookie QBs should have a chance to sit for a year, watch film, learn their offense and adjust to the NFL speed.

[quote]KO421 wrote:

I didn’t want them to pick Leinart at the time but now… [/quote]

I was swearing so much my wife ran in to make sure I hadn’t hurt myself doing something ridiculous…

[quote]KO421 wrote:
I think you are trying to remember good days there is no Garner in the backfield anymore! haha I know you meant Jordan.
[/quote]

Eh, I’m lucky I didn’t say Jackson – I can waste hours thinking about what it would have been like if he hadn’t hurt himself…

25

I agree with you about pressing in tight situations, especially at the end of games. I just took that to be the talent level around him. I haven’t seen Kitna play that much before he came to Detroit. It has to be hard running an offense that has a patchwork oline and no run game, so I figured that was part of the reason he got into trouble at times.

I do think he is a great QB for a young guy to sit behind. If nothing else, he will show the young guy how to act and get a team behind him. I like what he did for Carson Palmer, and I think he can do that for someone in Detroit in the next year or so.

I was not aware of any off field issues that Stanton had? What is going on with that? I can’t imagine it is anything bad, as it would be reported in Michigan as big news. But as a general rule, the Lions need to stay away from guys who have character issues.

Look at CRog and BMW and how far back that set us back. Imagine if instead of picking BMW, we selected a LB, CB, or DE? We wouldn’t have all that money invested in nothing, plus would have a productive player.

As for the offense, it will not be any worse than it was 2 years ago when Mooch was running things. I think that was the most anemic offense I have ever seen!! This one seems to move the ball quite a bit more.

They just need to convert on third down more, and I think the oline and TJ Duckett will help with that statistic. Regardless, the defense needs to be in better shape just to avoid injuries and the like. It seems like Detroit always has a ton of injuries.

Why do I love this team so much?![/quote]

Cuz your a true fan…ain’t it great! When they finally make the playoffs in the wake of Green Bay’s demise and a forever sub-par Viking squad you’ll be like hey, that’s my Lions.
btw, I believe I mis-spoke…it was Smoker that had the drinking problem right? Was Stanton afraid of competition at UM or what? How did he not go there…he is solid.

26

[quote]Kayrob wrote:
I am a Texans fan and we need the following:

Everything.

[/quote]

But you’ve got Ahman Green now! You should just rename the Texans to Green Bay South. You’ve got Sherman, Gado, Ahman…

Actually, I think the Matt Schaub deal will really work for the Texans. If he isn’t always running for his life.

27

Ah yes, that is smoker you are thinking of, and it was not a drinking problem he had, more of a cocaine problem!!

I am not sure why Stanton chose MSU. At the time, they were looking like they had a promising young program going with Rogers and Smoker and Duckett, and then a couple players Stanton played with in high school played there and he decided to go there. But then things took a turn for the worse. Stanton would have easily been a starter at U of M. Henne could have sat the bench for a few years to get seasoned.

Won’t it be sweet though when the lions do turn it around? I felt the same way with the tigers last year. Vindicated!! But I like what they are doing with Marinelli and the direction things are going. Just have to hope the draft plays out to our liking and I could see Detroit imprving 100% over last year (so that would be 6-10!).

28

[quote]shadyniner wrote:
Lifelong Detroit fan, where should I start!

I think if they cannot get a king’s ransom for the number 2 pick, they need to just select Calvin Johnson and see if they can’t trade him afterwords. If they can’t, the worst case is they keep the best player in the draft. Surprisingly, we do need a wide receiver as Charles Rogers has been cut and Mike Williams is on his way out.

If the lions can trade down for extra picks, I would prefer to see them trade with Atlanta. With the #8 pick, I’d like to take Patrick Willis. Then in the seond round snatch up Anthony Spencer and one of the corners. If we can’t get Willis, we need to target a MLB at some point, so Justin Durant might be an option.

The lions really need to focus on Defense, in particular MLB, DE, CB (in that order). Saturday should be fun.[/quote]

I agree that the Lions need to focus on the D, but the O is in pretty rough shape. The addition of Calvin Johnson would certainly boost the offense, but then the need to take a QB either in round 2 or the first round next year. Kitna is not the long term solution. I think that Detroit will end up trading with Tampa Bay and get their #1. Who knows what they will take at that pick. Remember, the have Matt Millen.

What they need to do is trade Matt Millen for a 1971 Pinto. Nevermind…no one in their right mind would give up a nice Pinto for Millen.

29

It doesn’t make sense to me why teams continue to spend high draft picks on quarterbacks.

Over the past 10 years, 19 players have been taken with a top-15 pick and gone on to play in a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them. The breakdown is as follows:

Quarterback- 3
Running Back- 3
Wide Receiver- 2
O Lineman- 3
D Lineman- 8
Linebacker- 2
Defensive Back- 3

Verrrrry interesting data indeed. And if you look at those defensive lineman, a lot of them have been real standouts, Freeney, Pepper, Tommie Harries, Richard Seymour, Corey Simon.

Also interesting to note the lack of apparent receiver contribution. Torry Holt is a hall of famer and a key to St. Louis’ success, but Travis Taylor makes that list as a token. Even if you look at the five early-drafted recievers who have been big stars:

Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Andre Johnson
Plexico Burress
Dave Boston (eh… maybe)

How much contribution have they really made to their teams winning?

The biggest common denominator between the successful teams over the past few years has been outstanding talent on the offensive and defensive lines. Look at the 9 teams who have appeared in the Super Bowl over the past 5 years:

Indianapolis- Questionable defensive line, outstanding offensive line
Chicago- Solid offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Pittsburgh- Outstanding offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Seattle- Outstanding offensive line, good defensive line
New England- Outstanding offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Philadelphia- Outstanding offesnive line, good defensive line
Carolina- Good offensive line, outstanding defensive line

The Colts and the Eagles are the only teams in recent memory to start with a franchise quarterback and build a team around them. Every other team just built a good team and found a quarterback along the way.

30

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
It doesn’t make sense to me why teams continue to spend high draft picks on quarterbacks.

Over the past 10 years, 19 players have been taken with a top-15 pick and gone on to play in a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them. The breakdown is as follows:

Quarterback- 3
Running Back- 3
Wide Receiver- 2
O Lineman- 3
D Lineman- 8
Linebacker- 2
Defensive Back- 3

Verrrrry interesting data indeed. And if you look at those defensive lineman, a lot of them have been real standouts, Freeney, Pepper, Tommie Harries, Richard Seymour, Corey Simon.

Also interesting to note the lack of apparent receiver contribution. Torry Holt is a hall of famer and a key to St. Louis’ success, but Travis Taylor makes that list as a token. Even if you look at the five early-drafted recievers who have been big stars:

Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Andre Johnson
Plexico Burress
Dave Boston (eh… maybe)

How much contribution have they really made to their teams winning?

The biggest common denominator between the successful teams over the past few years has been outstanding talent on the offensive and defensive lines. Look at the 9 teams who have appeared in the Super Bowl over the past 5 years:

Indianapolis- Questionable defensive line, outstanding offensive line
Chicago- Solid offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Pittsburgh- Outstanding offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Seattle- Outstanding offensive line, good defensive line
New England- Outstanding offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Philadelphia- Outstanding offesnive line, good defensive line
Carolina- Good offensive line, outstanding defensive line

The Colts and the Eagles are the only teams in recent memory to start with a franchise quarterback and build a team around them. Every other team just built a good team and found a quarterback along the way.[/quote]

good post, I agree 100% I think this was the Raiders thinking when they drafted Robert Gallery with the 2nd pick… that hasn’t worked out, he has 1 more year to prove he wasnt one of the biggest busts of all time.

31

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
It doesn’t make sense to me why teams continue to spend high draft picks on quarterbacks.

Over the past 10 years, 19 players have been taken with a top-15 pick and gone on to play in a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them. The breakdown is as follows:

Quarterback- 3
Running Back- 3
Wide Receiver- 2
O Lineman- 3
D Lineman- 8
Linebacker- 2
Defensive Back- 3

Verrrrry interesting data indeed. And if you look at those defensive lineman, a lot of them have been real standouts, Freeney, Pepper, Tommie Harries, Richard Seymour, Corey Simon.

Also interesting to note the lack of apparent receiver contribution. Torry Holt is a hall of famer and a key to St. Louis’ success, but Travis Taylor makes that list as a token. Even if you look at the five early-drafted recievers who have been big stars:

Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Andre Johnson
Plexico Burress
Dave Boston (eh… maybe)

How much contribution have they really made to their teams winning?

The biggest common denominator between the successful teams over the past few years has been outstanding talent on the offensive and defensive lines. Look at the 9 teams who have appeared in the Super Bowl over the past 5 years:

Indianapolis- Questionable defensive line, outstanding offensive line
Chicago- Solid offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Pittsburgh- Outstanding offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Seattle- Outstanding offensive line, good defensive line
New England- Outstanding offensive line, outstanding defensive line
Philadelphia- Outstanding offesnive line, good defensive line
Carolina- Good offensive line, outstanding defensive line

The Colts and the Eagles are the only teams in recent memory to start with a franchise quarterback and build a team around them. Every other team just built a good team and found a quarterback along the way.[/quote]

You nailed it.

Football 101: Control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. Do this first; everything else comes second.

It is absolutely no coincidence that the good franchises make dead-certain that they have their OL’s and their front sevens in place before they start putting together WR corp or the secondary.

It makes fans happy to draft QB’s and WR’s and RB’s, but drafting RG’s and DT’s is what takes you to the Super Bowl.

You can overcome poor skill players with dominant OL and front seven. You can’t do the reverse, yet the shitty franchises (Detriot, Oakland, Arizona, etc.) keep trying and failing.

32

[quote]As I was shouting expletives at my screen last year when they passed on Matt Leinert, I don’t have high hopes. Michael Huff may end up being a good safety, but damn it they needed a QB and Leinert will be the best of his class and of the few years before and after.
[/quote]

I was on here screaming just the same and got offered a bet that Brody Croyle would produce more than Lienart by Sasquatch.

Hopefully he’s still around. He tried telling me some b/s like his brother was an offensive cordinator or something. Lienart’s the man!

33

You can overcome poor skill players with dominant OL and front seven. You can’t do the reverse, yet the shitty franchises (Detriot, Oakland, Arizona, etc.) keep trying and failing.[/quote]

Not only overcome sub-par talent at the skilled positions but make stars out of them. Players like Dorsey Levens, Brad Johnson, Micheal Pittman, Jake Delhomme, Preist Holmes…I could probably go on.

34

Bad teams will get it eventually. Detroit signed a pro bowl guard, and got a good right tackle through trade. They signed a good DE from Tampa, and they already have the best DT tandem in the game. Detroit is a MLB and DE away from having a top 5 front seven on defense, IMO.

35

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
…
You can overcome poor skill players with dominant OL and front seven. You can’t do the reverse, yet the shitty franchises (Detriot, Oakland, Arizona, etc.) keep trying and failing.[/quote]

Generally I would agree, but the Raiders have tried to draft linemen early in the recent past – they just picked the wrong ones. And on D-Line they’ve been filling on monster free agents such as Ted Washington and Warren Sapp (and their D is actually pretty good… kind of like the Bears in the very early 80s):

Note the following Day 1 picks:

2006:

  1. Michael Huff - Safety, TX
  2. Thomas Howard, OLB UTEP
  3. Paul McQuistan, G Weber State

2005:

  1. Fabian Washington, CB Nebraska
  2. Stanford Routt, CB Houston
    3)a) Andrew Walter, QB Arizona State
    3)b) Kirk Morrison, ILB San Diego State

2004:

  1. Robert Gallery, OT Iowa
  2. Jake Grove, C Va Tech
  3. Stuart Schweigert, S Purdue

2003:

1)a) Nnamdi Asomugha, CB Cal
1)b) Tyler Brayton, DE CO
2) Teyo Johnson, WR Stanford
3)a) Sam Williams, OLB Fresno State
3)b) Justin Fargas, RB USC

2002:

1)a) Philip Buchanon, CB Miami
1)b) Napolean Harris, OLB Northwestern
2)a) Langston Walker, OT Cal
2)b) Doug Jolley, TE BYU

2001:

  1. Derrick Gibson, S Florida State
  2. Marques Tuiasosopo - QB Washington
  3. DeLawrence Grant - DE Oregon State

2000:

  1. Sebastian Janikowski, K Florida State (note: What?! A kicker! damn…)
  2. Jerry Porter, WR West Virginia

1999:

  1. Matt Stinchcomb, T Georgia
  2. Tony Bryant, DE Florida State

1998:

1)a) Charles Woodson, CB Michigan
1)b) Mo Collins, T Florida
2) Leon Bender, DT Washington State
3) Jon Ritchie, FB Stanford

Not perfect, but they’ve definitely drafted some big fellas. More to the point, a lot of those draftees (big fellas and otherwise) haven’t panned out – Al Davis needs to quit influencing the decisions.

Which is a problem overall. Their problem lately has been ownership interfering with coaching. And as a franchise, they can hardly be put on the same plane as Arizona and Detroit – Oakland was a powerful team in the late 90s and early 00’s, including a SuperBowl appearance in '02. They were middle of the pack in '03, and have only truly stunk for 3 years now.

36

[quote]dre wrote:
Kayrob wrote:
I am a Texans fan and we need the following:

Everything.

But you’ve got Ahman Green now! You should just rename the Texans to Green Bay South. You’ve got Sherman, Gado, Ahman…

Actually, I think the Matt Schaub deal will really work for the Texans. If he isn’t always running for his life.[/quote]

I am not sold on Ahman Green, I question if he will be able to stay healthy or not. I want another running back, one who can catch (Marshawn Lynch?). If we don’t get Schaub some protection, and a decent running game, he is going to end up like Carr. I am still convinced Carr could have been (and still might be) a fine quarterback.

37

[quote]Kayrob wrote:
If we don’t get Schaub some protection, and a decent running game, he is going to end up like Carr. I am still convinced Carr could have been (and still might be) a fine quarterback.[/quote]

I agree. Look at Schaub’s numbers; very comperable to Carr’s and with a significantly better supporting cast.

38

Niners are my team.

We need help on the D Line. I think Adam Carriker is a good pick at 11. I think this position is a bit high for AC, but he fits in good with the Niners D. He’s a big dude (6’6, 295) and has speed and power.

Personally, I would LOVE to see the Niners draft Patrick Willis, that would be sweet. He played most of last year with a broken hand and a huge cast on it, imagine what he can do if he is healthy.

39

[quote]Kayrob wrote:
dre wrote:
Kayrob wrote:

I am not sold on Ahman Green, I question if he will be able to stay healthy or not. I want another running back, one who can catch (Marshawn Lynch?). If we don’t get Schaub some protection, and a decent running game, he is going to end up like Carr. I am still convinced Carr could have been (and still might be) a fine quarterback.[/quote]

If Adrian Peterson (for some reason) is still hanging around at 10, the Texans should snatch him up. Since there is such a shortage of quality RB’s this year, Lynch will probably go higher than expected. He probably should go mid to late first round.

Green’s health is questionable since coming off the torn quad muscle injury, and AD would fit nicely into the system, and learn from a veteran running back as well.

And I agree 100% with you about David Carr. He job the short end of the stick because his line didn’t protect for him. He has the potential to be a great QB and just needs the right system.

40

I know we all love it, but honestly is the draft that exciting for the first 2 rounds. When we already know where every player is going for the last 2 weeks?