^^agreed.
No one single player is ever solely responsible for any loss. He was the major contributing factor IMO.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/175601
Fucking lol
Johnny Football to the Browns.
I called this to some friends recently this will happen mark my words. [/quote]
Lol, guess Johnny is gonna bomb like every other QB the browns get. [/quote]
If he goes to the Browns, yeah, his chances of success go down. There are 3 teams I deem QB killers and I don’t want him to go to any of them, Jets, Browns and Raiders. I’d like to see him go to the Texans.
If the Texans pick Clowny first, I reckon it could be like the Ravens under the Trent Dilfer era. I think that would be stupid, sure a dominant defense, but you have to score some points.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Betting line for Sunday
New England Patriots (+4.5) at Denver Broncos, 55
San Francisco 49ers (+3.5) at Seattle Seahawks, 40[/quote]
I am super excited for the games this weekend. The matchups are about as good as it can get. But I am hoping for a NE v. Seattle SB.
Either way it’s going to be a great match up of old school vs. new school. I guess we’ll see which one wins.
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
Why are QB’s able to achieve massive success with limited fundamentals in college and then completely unable to throw the ball at the pro level? Is there such an extraordinary difference between a pro defense and a college one? Yet defensive players can come in and make an immediate impact in the NFL.
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
Why are QB’s able to achieve massive success with limited fundamentals in college and then completely unable to throw the ball at the pro level? Is there such an extraordinary difference between a pro defense and a college one? Yet defensive players can come in and make an immediate impact in the NFL. [/quote]
Just think of it this way:
How many starting NFL caliber defenders does Manziel play against on a weekly basis? 0-3? Maaaaaybe 4 to 5 if he’s playing against an insanely stacked D.
How many of those defenders are in their prime? None.
So now he gets to the NFL and he is playing against 11 defenders that are all bigger, stronger, faster, smarter AND more experienced than anything a college QB had ever had to deal with.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
Why are QB’s able to achieve massive success with limited fundamentals in college and then completely unable to throw the ball at the pro level? Is there such an extraordinary difference between a pro defense and a college one? Yet defensive players can come in and make an immediate impact in the NFL. [/quote]
Just think of it this way:
How many starting NFL caliber defenders does Manziel play against on a weekly basis? 0-3? Maaaaaybe 4 to 5 if he’s playing against an insanely stacked D.
How many of those defenders are in their prime? None.
So now he gets to the NFL and he is playing against 11 defenders that are all bigger, stronger, faster, smarter AND more experienced than anything a college QB had ever had to deal with.[/quote]
Yes that’s certainly true but just with regard to the fundamentals, why is it that the Tebow/Manziel types cannot improve or morph their type of game into success at a pro level? Having never played the game when I hear people talk about footwork and release movements I can’t tell the difference between Rodgers and Tebow. Is it really that hard to change? Why aren’t they drilled as children to move and throw in the correct style?
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
Why are QB’s able to achieve massive success with limited fundamentals in college and then completely unable to throw the ball at the pro level? Is there such an extraordinary difference between a pro defense and a college one? Yet defensive players can come in and make an immediate impact in the NFL. [/quote]
Just think of it this way:
How many starting NFL caliber defenders does Manziel play against on a weekly basis? 0-3? Maaaaaybe 4 to 5 if he’s playing against an insanely stacked D.
How many of those defenders are in their prime? None.
So now he gets to the NFL and he is playing against 11 defenders that are all bigger, stronger, faster, smarter AND more experienced than anything a college QB had ever had to deal with.[/quote]
Yes that’s certainly true but just with regard to the fundamentals, why is it that the Tebow/Manziel types cannot improve or morph their type of game into success at a pro level? Having never played the game when I hear people talk about footwork and release movements I can’t tell the difference between Rodgers and Tebow. Is it really that hard to change? Why aren’t they drilled as children to move and throw in the correct style?[/quote]
Teebow was never able to throw the ball, even in college. Their entire offense was built around him not being able to throw the ball.
If it was as easy as just having it drilled into your muscle memory then every father would pay whatevr it cost to make sure his son was the next Tom Brady.
Manzeil is a better “QB” than Teebow, I haven’t watched him enough to know whether he’ll make the transition or not.
Great games this weekend.
I am picking the 49ers over the Seahawks. I think they found their sweet spot on how to play and win. Kapernick is still getting better.
I also have Denver winning, Tom Brady was pretty sick yesterday, so much he went home from practice. No idea if he will be ok by then, but being sick with the altitude change is going to undo him.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
Manzeil is a better “QB” than Teebow, I haven’t watched him enough to know whether he’ll make the transition or not. [/quote]
I think the question is can a Fran Tarkenton make it in today’s NFL? That’s who I see Manziel as.
I’ve only watched him play a few times so I can’t give an honest, experienced judgment but my hunch is he will struggle greatly in the big league. NFL defenses are so incredibly quick that they will negate J. Football’s nimbleness.[/quote]
Unless he goes to Detroit his game isn’t going to translate very well.
If you watched a lot his games you will notice that he spins around and scrambles away from defenders, runs around in the backfield and then throws up a jump ball to Evans (his insanely tall receiver who can jump out of the building)
That won’t work in the NFL unless you’re chucking it up to Megatron. Defenders are so much faster in the NFL, his scrambling won’t nearly be as effective when the guys he’s trying to outrun are just as fast as him and weigh 260+
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
Manzeil is a better “QB” than Teebow, I haven’t watched him enough to know whether he’ll make the transition or not. [/quote]
I think the question is can a Fran Tarkenton make it in today’s NFL? That’s who I see Manziel as.
I’ve only watched him play a few times so I can’t give an honest, experienced judgment but my hunch is he will struggle greatly in the big league. NFL defenses are so incredibly quick that they will negate J. Football’s nimbleness.[/quote]
Unless he goes to Detroit his game isn’t going to translate very well.
If you watched a lot his games you will notice that he spins around and scrambles away from defenders, runs around in the backfield and then throws up a jump ball to Evans (his insanely tall receiver who can jump out of the building)
That won’t work in the NFL unless you’re chucking it up to Megatron. Defenders are so much faster in the NFL, his scrambling won’t nearly be as effective when the guys he’s trying to outrun are just as fast as him and weigh 260+[/quote]
And his height, or lack thereof, is bound to hurt him. I know Brees and Wilson have done just fine, in fact – outstanding – but they are the exception and not the rule. The question is how many exceptions will the Football gods allow?
[/quote]
Wilson and Brees also have laser rocket arms. Manziel not so much. As gregron said, he tends to just throw the ball up rather then use any kind of arm strength or accuracy.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
You haven’t been watching the Manziel I have watched. I see a disciplined player who can also make miraculous plays. I went the the Chik-fila Bowl and came out a believer. I saw him in the pocket and out. The only issue I see with him is size, but the boy can play.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
Why are QB’s able to achieve massive success with limited fundamentals in college and then completely unable to throw the ball at the pro level? Is there such an extraordinary difference between a pro defense and a college one? Yet defensive players can come in and make an immediate impact in the NFL. [/quote]
Just think of it this way:
How many starting NFL caliber defenders does Manziel play against on a weekly basis? 0-3? Maaaaaybe 4 to 5 if he’s playing against an insanely stacked D.
How many of those defenders are in their prime? None.
So now he gets to the NFL and he is playing against 11 defenders that are all bigger, stronger, faster, smarter AND more experienced than anything a college QB had ever had to deal with.[/quote]
Anything in college? He did put up 42 points against Alabama. You can use that same argument against any college player in that respect.
The A&M defense is terrible and that’s the only reason the Tide rolled.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
Manzeil is a better “QB” than Teebow, I haven’t watched him enough to know whether he’ll make the transition or not. [/quote]
I think the question is can a Fran Tarkenton make it in today’s NFL? That’s who I see Manziel as.
I’ve only watched him play a few times so I can’t give an honest, experienced judgment but my hunch is he will struggle greatly in the big league. NFL defenses are so incredibly quick that they will negate J. Football’s nimbleness.[/quote]
That may be true. He won’t scramble like he did in college, but he can also stand in the pocket. He also seems to hit the receiver that’s open more so than the check down guy. I watch a lot of A&M games this season because my son is a huge fan. I was like you guys at the beginning of the year, but having watched him do it time and time and time again, I became a believer.
It just seems to me that most of these criticisms are kind of generic and you can apply them to anyone, Bridgewater, Carr, Bortles, McCarron… Can they do it in the big leagues, they haven’t faced an NFL defense, he can’t do what he did in college and the NFL level, etc.
Now Maziel has the possibility of sucking in the NFL, no doubt as any of the prospects do. Watching the guy in detail though, if he goes to the right team with the right coaching staff,I believe he can be great. If he goes to the Brown’s I think he’s screwed. Either way, I don’t believe there will be an in between. He will either flourish or suck. He’s not going to be a ‘serviceable’ QB.
Carr seems to me to be the worst of the prospects. He looks to be another Weeden-Gabbert type prospect.
[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
Manzeil is a better “QB” than Teebow, I haven’t watched him enough to know whether he’ll make the transition or not. [/quote]
I think the question is can a Fran Tarkenton make it in today’s NFL? That’s who I see Manziel as.
I’ve only watched him play a few times so I can’t give an honest, experienced judgment but my hunch is he will struggle greatly in the big league. NFL defenses are so incredibly quick that they will negate J. Football’s nimbleness.[/quote]
Unless he goes to Detroit his game isn’t going to translate very well.
If you watched a lot his games you will notice that he spins around and scrambles away from defenders, runs around in the backfield and then throws up a jump ball to Evans (his insanely tall receiver who can jump out of the building)
That won’t work in the NFL unless you’re chucking it up to Megatron. Defenders are so much faster in the NFL, his scrambling won’t nearly be as effective when the guys he’s trying to outrun are just as fast as him and weigh 260+[/quote]
And his height, or lack thereof, is bound to hurt him. I know Brees and Wilson have done just fine, in fact – outstanding – but they are the exception and not the rule. The question is how many exceptions will the Football gods allow?
[/quote]
Wilson and Brees also have laser rocket arms. Manziel not so much. As gregron said, he tends to just throw the ball up rather then use any kind of arm strength or accuracy.[/quote]
Yeah he’s got no arm…
Do you really want to see the highlight reel?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
Why are QB’s able to achieve massive success with limited fundamentals in college and then completely unable to throw the ball at the pro level? Is there such an extraordinary difference between a pro defense and a college one? Yet defensive players can come in and make an immediate impact in the NFL. [/quote]
Just think of it this way:
How many starting NFL caliber defenders does Manziel play against on a weekly basis? 0-3? Maaaaaybe 4 to 5 if he’s playing against an insanely stacked D.
How many of those defenders are in their prime? None.
So now he gets to the NFL and he is playing against 11 defenders that are all bigger, stronger, faster, smarter AND more experienced than anything a college QB had ever had to deal with.[/quote]
Anything in college? He did put up 42 points against Alabama. You can use that same argument against any college player in that respect.
The A&M defense is terrible and that’s the only reason the Tide rolled.[/quote]
Yes, all bigger, stronger and faster than anything he’s seen in the NFL.
You can’t honestly be saying that alabamas D (who was their worst in years) is on par with an NFL D. SOME of them will end up being NFL starters but none are in their prime yet so I stand by my statement.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]redstar144 wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Manziel is a wasted pick no matter where he goes. He cant stay healthy and his fundamentals are horrific. He makes miraculous plays sure, but for the most part they were unnecessary and the only reason he had to pull the rabbit out of the hat to begin with was because he was to slow on going through his progressions. With that said, I am saying the Browns or Jags take him because he is a pretty obvious bad choice.[/quote]
Why are QB’s able to achieve massive success with limited fundamentals in college and then completely unable to throw the ball at the pro level? Is there such an extraordinary difference between a pro defense and a college one? Yet defensive players can come in and make an immediate impact in the NFL. [/quote]
Just think of it this way:
How many starting NFL caliber defenders does Manziel play against on a weekly basis? 0-3? Maaaaaybe 4 to 5 if he’s playing against an insanely stacked D.
How many of those defenders are in their prime? None.
So now he gets to the NFL and he is playing against 11 defenders that are all bigger, stronger, faster, smarter AND more experienced than anything a college QB had ever had to deal with.[/quote]
Anything in college? He did put up 42 points against Alabama. You can use that same argument against any college player in that respect.
The A&M defense is terrible and that’s the only reason the Tide rolled.[/quote]
Yes, all bigger, stronger and faster than anything he’s seen in the NFL.
You can’t honestly be saying that alabamas D (who was their worst in years) is on par with an NFL D. SOME of them will end up being NFL starters but none are in their prime yet so I stand by my statement.[/quote]
I don’t have an opinion on the guy, but not one college offensive player ever has seen an NFL-like defense across from them, ever, until they get to the NFL. So, point well taken, but that same point goes for every single QB ever.
^^exqctly.
Seahawks suck