Yeah,
That’s what my wife said ! I draw it up out of a syringe and inject it in a
shot glass, was rushing and made a mistake.
Do you think lower free T levels in the low to midrange for youthful men
would result in less RBC production and a lower HCT?
I changed my protocol 4 months ago because I was fearful that my high HCT could cause me to be at risk for a blood clot( I have had 4 in the past). In addition I was getting some Gyno (fibrocystic ds)
My new protocol is below with my old protocol in ( ) :
Test C sub Q 30 twice a week (was 50 twice/week)
HCG 333 units twice /week ( no change)
AI .25mg twice a week, was going to cut it to .20 but did not ( was .30 twice/week)
I have had some insomnia and some fatigue sleepiness after work with some low energy in the past 2 months, along with low libido. I also have had some tendinitis from golfing in my left hand.
Just got my new labs back and my E2 is crashed.(less than 5!)
Test levels are lower as well, but I expected that and am OK with that for now.
Here are my new labs:
Hct 51
Testosterone, Serum 509 ng/dL 264-916 CB
Free Testosterone(Direct) 13.4 pg/mL 7.2-24.0 BN
Pregnenolone, MS <10 ng/dL ES
Reference Range: Adults: <151 Dihydrotestosterone 201-305-0742-0
Dihydrotestosterone 42 ng/dL ES
Adult Male: 30 - 85
Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S 201-305-0742-0
T4,Free(Direct) 1.27 ng/dL 0.82-1.77 CB
DHEA-Sulfate 201-305-0742-0
DHEA-Sulfate 40.2 Low ug/dL 48.9-344.2 CB
Cortisol 12.6 ug/dL CB
Cortisol AM 6.2 - 19.4
Cortisol PM 2.3 - 11.9
TSH 201-305-0742-0
TSH 1.390 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500 CB Estradiol 201-305-0742-0
Estradiol <5.0 Low pg/mL 7.6-42.6 CB
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 1.4 ng/mL 0.0-4.0 CB
Triiodothyronine (T3), Free 201-305-0742-0
Triiodothyronine (T3), Free 3.3 pg/mL 2.0-4.4 CB
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 31.7 nmol/L 19.3-76.4 CB
I am planning on stopping AI completely until I get Gyno back or water retension with I had before an AI was started.
Do you think I can get by with no AI if I keep my present Test injection protocol?
Also do you think the low E2 will resolve and thus resolve my low libido and low energy?
Thanks for any suggestions.
I would increase to 40mg twice weekly do to low T symptoms and low DHEA is contributing, stop the AI for a couple of weeks, see where you are. If E2 is elevated again you could do .125mg AI twice weekly. You could easily donate blood, but the only people to suffer a blood clot on TRT are those with clotting disorders or a certain type of cancer.
You could benefit from DHEA, but it may increase estrogen which may increase the need for AI. DHEA is precursor to male and female sex hormones, including testosterone and estrogen, low DHEA has symptoms of its own.
YES!
Thanks Guys for your response.
I upped my dose to Testc50 and HCG 350 last night skipping the AI.
I will continue twice a week at Test C 30-40 twice a week.
Also, another question: What do you think about my low Pregnenolone? It is now less than 10, it was 15.
And one last question: Should I add DHEA ?
Thanks.
Increasing preg and dhea is something controversial. My Dr for instance sees no point. But my dhea was in range low. Dhea will most likely raise ur e2. And I rather take no ai
Thanks,
I have been tested for a hypercoag disorder and it has been neg. But I have had 4 blood clots and one Pulmonary embolus, so I probably have a clotting disorder that is not picked up by testing available at this time.
So I will keep my Test C dosage low, give blood as necessary, and avoid taking an AI and higher HCT while accepting the moderate increase in testosterone I get with this protocol.
I guess its all about balancing risks and benefits!
Charlie12,
How long can I expect it to take my E2 to rise back to the 20 range after stopping my AI, if I continue TestC 30 twice a week plus HCG 350 twice a week?
It depends really how long you had it that low. If less than a few weeks should come back pretty quick.
If you are seeing if you can do without the AI. You need to give it a full 6-8 weeks with no AI even if during that time you feel it’s high. Only thing to take immediate b action is if you have gyno that is developing. But my tit is itchy once in a while. That probably from e2 fluctuating in between injections.
My e2 once went to 8 and after 2 weeks back up in 20s.
So, what are the first signs of Gyno?
Should I do labs after 2 weeks off of AI?
Itchy tits. You can do labs. But if you feel good than keep going. Some rather use novaldex instead of an AI if ur e2 gets moderately high.
The Bitch is Back!
Ok, it has been 30 days with no AI.
I am bitchy, whiney, irritable. Low energy.
Low libido.
Mild Gyno.
Hands swollen. 1+ pitting edema on shins.
Feet/toe joints popping.
Plantar fasciitis is hurting like hell!
I assume my E2 is back up.
I got labs drawn and started back on 1/2 dose of my AI.
I was taking .2 mg of Armidex twice a week and I am starting back at .1 mg twice a week. Keeping my Test C at 30mg twice a week and my HCG at 333u twice a week.
What do you think?
Also, all of my labs were ordered thru Life Extension by ordering the Male Hormone panel. I just noticed that this is not the sensitive test. Is that OK?
Probably. If your symptoms were from increased E2, the ECLIA test will show it elevated.
Thanks,
But can I use this method to adjust my E2 to the desired 22 sweet spot? Or is the range that KSman suggesting only using the sensitive method?
Yes.
So you tested yourself with both methods and they were almost that precise?
I assume in the very low values it may be important.
I was reading someone else’s post on here researching this question and they quoted values that were very different with different testing. Perhaps they were not on the same day?
No sweet spot. My total t is about 700 and my e2 is in low 30s and I am doing very well. Do not Chase this number. Many have and end up on a rollercoaster like I did. I took arimidex to get to 22 and what a rollercoaster. When I stopped the dex everything stabilized after a couple of months.
Here are my test results. Looks like my E2 is too high. I guess I will try to bring it down some, but try to use my symptoms as my main guide and my labs as reinforcement and a reference point.
Testosterone, Serum 618 ng/dL (264-916)
Free Testosterone(Direct) 15.2 pg/mL ( 7.2-24.0)
DHEA-Sulfate 34.7 Low ug/dL (48.9-344.2 CB )
Estradiol 45.7 High pg/mL (7.6-42.6) CB Roche ECLIA methodology
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 1.4 ng/mL (0.0-4.0 ) CB Roche ECLIA methodology.
What do you think?
Yes. I may have also been the one with the very different values, as shown below. I’ve been testing (same day) with both methods for a while. Even with the higher levels, I have had no E2 symptoms. We’re all different, some have symptoms when E2 gets over 30. I do think it is important to avoid taking E2 too low. It seems you are very sensitive to anastrozole.
