If the goal is just cosmetic then exercise selection doesnt matter. If you gain weight and progress on the exercises then it will work.
I believe we can achieve 90% of the possible benefits doing whatever the fuck and just progressing. The difference between types of curls and types of glute exercises is over exaggerated by fitness industry just to somehow create any content on the matter. You can do 5 sets of bench and 5 sets of incline OR you can do types of flyes and machines and whatever and i am sure that the cosmetic effect will be simmilar. I have never understood the point to write a list of exercises and ask for opinions as the exercise selection does not matter - caloric surplus and progression is what matters.
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What does this mean?
Do Super Squats. It will teach you how much you do / do not need isolation exercises to grow.
Physiology doesnāt give a fuck about a barbell. As long as your choice of exercise:
- effectively loads target tissues
- can be loaded safely at high levels of exertion
- can be progressed over time
Then you can get bigger in stronger. In fact, I would argue that the āclassicā barbell lifts do not always fulfill all these criteria for all lifters.
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Have to agree here, presses worked great for my triceps but did little for my chest n shoulders. My chest didnāt grow much at all until I started using a well designed pec deck flye machine with a slight decline on the back rest, similar to the design of the original nautilus pec deck machine. My shoulders did better im terms of hypertrophy with machine lateral raises and smith machine high pulls.
Machine pullovers did wonders for my lats, great for pre exhaustion.
Donāt get me wrong, I love deads, ohps, loaded carries etc for strength, but yeah, canāt say theyāve done a great deal in terms of size increase (for me, others may well be different). But thereās definitely a place for both single and multi joint exercises at any stage in the game imo.
On a side note, was flicking through some of my old BB mags last night and found Greg Kovacs routine in a flex mag from 97, similar sort of set up as what youāve proposed in your OP. Itās worth noting he was on enough sauce to kill a horse and was a genetic freakā¦but here ya goā¦
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Can you give an example? Most I have seen use a TM for the first exercise followed by something like 3x a given rep. To me that is junk volume. If I am doing 3x10 I am not using enough weight.
In my example both sets are taken to complete failure the first set is just lower rep/heavier weight.
Unless I am doing a rest pause/cluster set I also see no point in going below 6 reps when the goal is hypertrophy.
Then where are the before and afters? I have nothing against Wendler but, it is ALWAYS recommended when someone asks how to build muscle yet, I have not seen any results. I have even asked him directly and he refused to provide anything.
If the goal is hypertrophy focusing on the big 3 with some accessories/assistance is not the way to go.
This goes for the original 531 and the first variations. At this point many of the routines out of the hundreds are hardly 531. Though, I have not seen results posted from any of them.
To be fair, this applies to the vast vast majority of programs out there. Thereās a severe lack of before/afters because most people just donāt have the drive to stick with any program at full intensity consistently for years to get noticeable results. Also, people rarely take before photos to compare. Itās terrifying for most people to put it all out there on the internet with all the criticism it invites.
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I have to agree on this.
I was doing 3x12 for a while, but when the post about optimal training volume came out here like a week ago, i switched to 2x12 and noticed that i can increase the weight pretty much. It seems that i can do 2 really good sets with heavier weight, but if id have to get the third set to the same number of reps, it just means that my first two sets have to be lighter.
Of course, i dont know if the intensity of 2 sets is better than the volume of 3, but since all the bright minds agree that 10 sets per muscle is enough, i can actually do 2 sets per exercise and get the optimal volume AND the increased intensity of not pacing myself on the first sets just to complete the reps on the third one.
Who says all 3 sets need to be same weight? I could see doing 3 sets of ~10 to failure, but 2nd and 3rd set will take less weight but still be just as effective from hypertrophy perspective.
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To be fair, Iām not that versed in his stuff. What Iāve seen today has folks work up to their big set of the day based on whatever percentage; then they back off to a lower percentage and do either a big set with it or a handful of sets.
Itās completely valid to say thatās not the same as what youāre saying (heavy set to failure, backoff set to failure). I am probably leaving too much room for interpretation in my post above
Are you saying you have never seen anyone build muscle with 5/3/1?
Anyway, hypertrophy is never the primary goal of 5/3/1 programs - performance is. There are some programs that have a greater focus on hypertrophy than others but it is always around a performance outcome.
Youāre just never going to get a (Wendler) 5/3/1 program that is aimed at getting you bigger and not have a big focus on getting you running faster or longer, jumping higher, being harder to move or making it easier to move someone
I started working out consistently in 2005, and started using 531 in the 2010ās and have based my training on the program or its philosophy for many years now. Even when I āuseā a different program like TB, the strength portion is just a 531 variation. Here is how I looked as a āfitā nearly 40 year old (sorry I was wearing clothes, couldnāt find anything else ATM) and hereās how I look now as a nearly 50 year old using 531 for many years. It might not align with your goals, but it has served me well.
I should also add I do not track calories or take supplements beyond whey/creatine so physique is not my main emphasis.
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The author of this thread has other 531 reviews that always show some level of progress.
From a personal POV 531 has gotten me bigger. Much bigger. I guess the way to put it is when you go from bench 100kg to pressing 100kg your body must adapt.
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What makes a program 5/3/1?
I am not an expert but i am pretty sure that there was a study done about rest intervals for hypertrophy. It came to a conclusion that when your rest is not enough and you are drop weight in order to complete same amount of reps, you are also getting less hypertrophy.
I think Greg Doucette also said that the exercise is done when you start losing reps or need to drop weight.
If your first set is 10x300, then doing 10x275 is not creating enough stimulus as your body CAN do 10x300.
These are all the discussions about how long to rest with a conclusion that you need to rest enough so you can replicate the first set.
They also used these to debunk all the drop-sets and whatever sets bodybuilding magazines sell. Lowering weight means not working at the intensity thats needed to stimulate growth.
(not my research, im just saying what i have read and hear, and what i believed in for last couple of years).
Much appreciated dude! I still love to share the story of how my wifeās co-worker thought my wife got divorced and remarried after I ran BBB the first time. I ended up putting on 12lbs of bodyweight without even intending to do so, just eating by hunger, and had radically transformed my physique.
Getting more muscular REALLY isnāt that complicated. Looking like a bodybuilder is, sure, but just being jacked? Nah: we can figure that out in high school.
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I didnāt tag you as I figured youād have seen this thread and where staying quiet for a reason.
Yeah 531 is pretty magic. I can share my photos from 2 years back. Sure Iām still fat - but compared Iāve gone from a soft weak 100kg/220lb to a strong(ish) guy whos size in intimidating (according to others).
Nah, totally under my radar. Saw the people that were responding initially and figured things were squared away. Couldnāt imagine what itād turn into, haha.
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Maybe Iām misunderstanding, but following this train of thought wouldnāt this imply that itās even better to do 2 sets of 5 @ 340, or even better yet 5 doubles @ 380? Then youāre getting those 10 reps at even higher weight.
Technically we can say 1 set of 10 is just 2x5 with zero rest at a lower intensity than if you rested as long as needed and hit 2x5 with 340.
Every rep beyond a single is technically a performance drop in that you need to drop intensity to keep going. By the end of a 10RM (or any RM for that matter), guess whatā¦that weight is physiologically your current 1RM.