New Training Questions

Training
162

Hmmm… Regarding HST I feel something contradictory.
I have a log on every workout I’ve made since 2 years ago, and two of them gave me the best size gains.
One was HST, and the other a two per week muscle with a drop-set.

Thing it’s that I got the best gains with HST in the 15’s and 10’s (and nothing during negatives), but I’ve made a big progress in weights. That was from January up to March 2009

With the other program, I’ve made a little bigger gains, and also stenght went up. That was form April up to June. But I noticed this summer that my cardio sucks now!!! I mean I can do 115 kg. for 10 reps of Lat pulldown’s behind neck, or 12 reps of press with 116 kg! (I started with 40 kg. 3 years ago!). But even a small walk in the mountain of 15 minuts kills me!

But 4 years ago I was competing in regional Mountain bike races up to 70 km. ending in between of the classification. But when I started to lift weights, I spend 1 year with good strengh gains, but with no noticeable muscles (excepte the abs). So I left cardio and kept the same weight routine, and the gains started.

So I was trying to find an 50-50 aproach until your new workout comes out.

And yes, HST it’s really really boring… go in to the gym knowing exactly what you have to do and how many weight it’s going to be it’s not funny.

163

CT

I understand the split is not important so long as it’s a sensible one. So, sorry to drag this up again but by working each muscle 2 x a week, do you mean twice every 7 days or twice in a calendar week? So, the 1st split or second one? One word will do.

1 - Legs 1 - Legs
2 - Upper body 2 - Chest/back
3 - Rest 3 - Rest
4 - Legs 4 - Arms
5 - Upper body 5 - Rest
6 - Rest 6 - Repeat
7 - Rest

Thanks.

164

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib, could you explain the difference between doing a set of 3 with 3RM versus doing 3 sets of 1 with 3RM, or 10 sets of 1 with 3RM or whatever. I’m just trying to understand why the adaptation is different in various types of work (many sets of submaximal reps vs. one set of maximum reps), what type of work brings faster neural adaptations in form of strength increase ?[/quote]

I like to know the answer too.

I supose that:

  • 1 x 3RM starts working with less than 100% muscle fibes until they get exhausted. PRO’s: You create more TUT than 1RM, nervous system it’s not workig at 100% all the time. BUT: with only ne serie you don’t have enought time to stimulate in a sufficient degree the II fibers (unless you do the concentric part of the movement as fast as you can).

  • 3 x 1RM Starts working with practically the 100% of the muscle fibers available. But if you rest around 2 minutes, the post tetanic facilitation will permit you lift more weight, so the last 2 sets will not be at your new 1RM unless you lift more weight. PRO’s: I think nervous system will be improved if not too much set’s involved and the lift speed isn’t very slow. BUT: There isn’t enought TUT for hypertrophy.

I think maybe first set at 1rep of 1RM and then 2 sets at max reps of 3RM with 120 seg. between sets will give a good strenght first and hypertrophy.

Is my thought, I want to know the opinion of Thib.

165

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib, could you explain the difference between doing a set of 3 with 3RM versus doing 3 sets of 1 with 3RM, or 10 sets of 1 with 3RM or whatever. I’m just trying to understand why the adaptation is different in various types of work (many sets of submaximal reps vs. one set of maximum reps), what type of work brings faster neural adaptations in form of strength increase ?[/quote]

You must understand that the factors which stimulate gains are:

  1. Mechanical stress (the greater the intramuscular tension, the greater the stress)
  2. Biochemical and hormonal changes
  3. Energy deficit

The amount of force produced during a set is responsible for the magnitude of the mechanical stress.

Biochemical and hormonal changes are influenced by: training load, volume, rest intervals

The energy deficit is obviously linked to volume.

I have also mentionned that the more you train, without exceeding your capacity to recover, the more you’ll progress.

So basically stimulating maximum growth comes from:

Doing as many high force sets as you can without exceeding your capacity to recover.

Capacity to recover refers to neural recovery, muscular recovery, energy recovery, immune system recovery and hormonal recovery.

Two things that will drastically increase the need for recovery are:

a) going to failure
b) doing a high volume

So you want to:

  • Minimize the number of sets where you go to failure, one per exercise is acceptable, but then you are done.

  • Minimize the number of low force sets. As long as you try to accelerate the weight as much as you can you can produce a high amount of force with loads as small as 50%. So if you do not accelerate, you are most probably wasting sets (they will not give max results and will lead to more fatigue).

  • Stay away for excessively high reps

This is why I like to ramp up the weight. Start at roughly 60% of your max, always lift with as much acceleration as you can, and add weight every set until you reach your max weight for the prescribed number of reps.

So to answer your question:

1 x 3RM creates more neural fatigue than 3 x 1 @ 3RM because you go to (or close to) your limit. Limits are like electric fenses: if you get close you can feel them, but if you touch it you’ll get jolted!

166

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, could you explain the difference between doing a set of 3 with 3RM versus doing 3 sets of 1 with 3RM, or 10 sets of 1 with 3RM or whatever. I’m just trying to understand why the adaptation is different in various types of work (many sets of submaximal reps vs. one set of maximum reps), what type of work brings faster neural adaptations in form of strength increase ?

You must understand that the factors which stimulate gains are:

  1. Mechanical stress (the greater the intramuscular tension, the greater the stress)
  2. Biochemical and hormonal changes
  3. Energy deficit

The amount of force produced during a set is responsible for the magnitude of the mechanical stress.

Biochemical and hormonal changes are influenced by: training load, volume, rest intervals

The energy deficit is obviously linked to volume.

I have also mentionned that the more you train, without exceeding your capacity to recover, the more you’ll progress.

So basically stimulating maximum growth comes from:

Doing as many high force sets as you can without exceeding your capacity to recover.

Capacity to recover refers to neural recovery, muscular recovery, energy recovery, immune system recovery and hormonal recovery.

Two things that will drastically increase the need for recovery are:

a) going to failure
b) doing a high volume

So you want to:

  • Minimize the number of sets where you go to failure, one per exercise is acceptable, but then you are done.

  • Minimize the number of low force sets. As long as you try to accelerate the weight as much as you can you can produce a high amount of force with loads as small as 50%. So if you do not accelerate, you are most probably wasting sets (they will not give max results and will lead to more fatigue).

  • Stay away for excessively high reps

This is why I like to ramp up the weight. Start at roughly 60% of your max, always lift with as much acceleration as you can, and add weight every set until you reach your max weight for the prescribed number of reps.

So to answer your question:

1 x 3RM creates more neural fatigue than 3 x 1 @ 3RM because you go to (or close to) your limit. Limits are like electric fenses: if you get close you can feel them, but if you touch it you’ll get jolted!

[/quote]

Great post CT.

167

Hi Thib,

I was wondering if it would be possible to combine two different CNS-activation techniques for antagonist muscles. I was thinking of doing plyo push-ups (5x5 reps), 45 seconds pause, and drop-and-catch pull-ups (5x3reps). I’m training at a commercial gym and this way, it would be alot easier for me to do activation work without disturbing too many people ^^
After that, I planned to do cluster sets in an antagonistic manner, like you mentioned in a previous post, but I started to wonder if the cluster technique wasn’t already CNS-activation enough and to save the ballistic CNS-activation techniques for a dynamic day. What do you think?

Thanks in advance!

168

When training twice a day for fat loss do you recommend two lifting sessions or one lifting, one ESW? While eating carbs only pre-workout. Thanks!

169

[quote]joe1981 wrote:
When training twice a day for fat loss do you recommend two lifting sessions or one lifting, one ESW? While eating carbs only pre-workout. Thanks![/quote]

I always prefer two strength workouts , IF the individual knows what he is doing.

If he doesn’t have a clue and risk screwing himself up I recommend cardio as the second session. Come to think of it, I recommend cardio quite often!

170

[quote]Kaito wrote:
Hi Thib,

I was wondering if it would be possible to combine two different CNS-activation techniques for antagonist muscles. I was thinking of doing plyo push-ups (5x5 reps), 45 seconds pause, and drop-and-catch pull-ups (5x3reps). I’m training at a commercial gym and this way, it would be alot easier for me to do activation work without disturbing too many people ^^
After that, I planned to do cluster sets in an antagonistic manner, like you mentioned in a previous post, but I started to wonder if the cluster technique wasn’t already CNS-activation enough and to save the ballistic CNS-activation techniques for a dynamic day. What do you think?

Thanks in advance![/quote]

That’s fine, I’ve done it this way a few times in the past.

171

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
joe1981 wrote:
When training twice a day for fat loss do you recommend two lifting sessions or one lifting, one ESW? While eating carbs only pre-workout. Thanks!

I always prefer two strength workouts , IF the individual knows what he is doing.

If he doesn’t have a clue and risk screwing himself up I recommend cardio as the second session. Come to think of it, I recommend cardio quite often![/quote]

Don’t you think that it’s better to combine two diffent kind of workouts when training the same day for fat lost?
I mean, I tried to do to workout per day for mass gaining, and I know that if I split the same volume I would do for only one workout a day into two small workouts, it works better for mass gains. It is because I can do the both workouts with less fatige. So if I have back+pec on monday, instead of doing it in one workout I would do one in the morning and the other at least 2 hours latter, so I can have more energy in the second one.

But when I want to lose fat, I prefer to combine two different “enegy systems?” I mean if I do weights in the morning, which it’s more anaerobic, I prefer to do some cardio in the afternoon, which it’s more aerobic. So combining both body has always to adapt.
(And it’s more funny because you are doing different things)
Note: I prefer doing cardio in the morning and always out of the gym, but every few days I try to change it.

Don’t you think so?

172

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, could you explain the difference between doing a set of 3 with 3RM versus doing 3 sets of 1 with 3RM, or 10 sets of 1 with 3RM or whatever. I’m just trying to understand why the adaptation is different in various types of work (many sets of submaximal reps vs. one set of maximum reps), what type of work brings faster neural adaptations in form of strength increase ?

You must understand that the factors which stimulate gains are:

  1. Mechanical stress (the greater the intramuscular tension, the greater the stress)
  2. Biochemical and hormonal changes
  3. Energy deficit

The amount of force produced during a set is responsible for the magnitude of the mechanical stress.

Biochemical and hormonal changes are influenced by: training load, volume, rest intervals

The energy deficit is obviously linked to volume.

I have also mentionned that the more you train, without exceeding your capacity to recover, the more you’ll progress.

So basically stimulating maximum growth comes from:

Doing as many high force sets as you can without exceeding your capacity to recover.

Capacity to recover refers to neural recovery, muscular recovery, energy recovery, immune system recovery and hormonal recovery.

Two things that will drastically increase the need for recovery are:

a) going to failure
b) doing a high volume

So you want to:

  • Minimize the number of sets where you go to failure, one per exercise is acceptable, but then you are done.

  • Minimize the number of low force sets. As long as you try to accelerate the weight as much as you can you can produce a high amount of force with loads as small as 50%. So if you do not accelerate, you are most probably wasting sets (they will not give max results and will lead to more fatigue).

  • Stay away for excessively high reps

This is why I like to ramp up the weight. Start at roughly 60% of your max, always lift with as much acceleration as you can, and add weight every set until you reach your max weight for the prescribed number of reps.

So to answer your question:

1 x 3RM creates more neural fatigue than 3 x 1 @ 3RM because you go to (or close to) your limit. Limits are like electric fenses: if you get close you can feel them, but if you touch it you’ll get jolted!

[/quote]

The best explanation as always! Thanks a lot for your time.

The funny thing is that I intuitively accelerated as much as possible since the start of my training. The idea of NOT trying to get the bar out of your way on concentric portion as fast as possible is very alien to me.

Very much thanks to you, I perfectly understood the ramping method as the best one for strength.

But as for another method of getting stronger (explosive submxaximal reps), I can’t fully grasp it.

My biggest issue is - how many sets does it take to compensate for lack of fatigue in the set ?

The problem with your principle : “Doing as many high force sets as you can without exceeding your capacity to recover.” is that I don’t understand how to KNOW that I’m exceeding my limits…

I can do huge volume of submaximal sets (for example 20 x 2 @ 85%), and feel energetic at that moment and I never feel any negative effects on my body (those that I know of). But what if it’s too much, what is the INDICATOR ?

What are the general, broad estimations of volume on one muscle group or one movement that should be considered using non-failure sets ? What is the minimum that should induce neural adaptations ? Surely, if you do 5 sets of 2 at 80%, that’s not very effective ? What about 10,15,20,30 sets of 2 at 80% ?

I apologize for the long post, I really hope you can help me on this.

173

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, could you explain the difference between doing a set of 3 with 3RM versus doing 3 sets of 1 with 3RM, or 10 sets of 1 with 3RM or whatever. I’m just trying to understand why the adaptation is different in various types of work (many sets of submaximal reps vs. one set of maximum reps), what type of work brings faster neural adaptations in form of strength increase ?

You must understand that the factors which stimulate gains are:

  1. Mechanical stress (the greater the intramuscular tension, the greater the stress)
  2. Biochemical and hormonal changes
  3. Energy deficit

The amount of force produced during a set is responsible for the magnitude of the mechanical stress.

Biochemical and hormonal changes are influenced by: training load, volume, rest intervals

The energy deficit is obviously linked to volume.

I have also mentionned that the more you train, without exceeding your capacity to recover, the more you’ll progress.

So basically stimulating maximum growth comes from:

Doing as many high force sets as you can without exceeding your capacity to recover.

Capacity to recover refers to neural recovery, muscular recovery, energy recovery, immune system recovery and hormonal recovery.

Two things that will drastically increase the need for recovery are:

a) going to failure
b) doing a high volume

So you want to:

  • Minimize the number of sets where you go to failure, one per exercise is acceptable, but then you are done.

  • Minimize the number of low force sets. As long as you try to accelerate the weight as much as you can you can produce a high amount of force with loads as small as 50%. So if you do not accelerate, you are most probably wasting sets (they will not give max results and will lead to more fatigue).

  • Stay away for excessively high reps

This is why I like to ramp up the weight. Start at roughly 60% of your max, always lift with as much acceleration as you can, and add weight every set until you reach your max weight for the prescribed number of reps.

So to answer your question:

1 x 3RM creates more neural fatigue than 3 x 1 @ 3RM because you go to (or close to) your limit. Limits are like electric fenses: if you get close you can feel them, but if you touch it you’ll get jolted!

The best explanation as always! Thanks a lot for your time.

The funny thing is that I intuitively accelerated as much as possible since the start of my training. The idea of NOT trying to get the bar out of your way on concentric portion as fast as possible is very alien to me.

Very much thanks to you, I perfectly understood the ramping method as the best one for strength.

But as for another method of getting stronger (explosive submxaximal reps), I can’t fully grasp it.

My biggest issue is - how many sets does it take to compensate for lack of fatigue in the set ?

The problem with your principle : “Doing as many high force sets as you can without exceeding your capacity to recover.” is that I don’t know how to KNOW that I’m exceeding my limits…

I can do huge volume of submaximal sets (for example 20 x 2 @ 85%), and feel energetic at that moment and I never feel any negative effects on my body (those that I know of). But what if it’s too much, what is the INDICATOR ?

What are the general, broad estimations of volume on one muscle group or one movement that should be considered using non-failure sets ? What is the minimum that should induce neural adaptations ? Surely, if you do 5 sets of 2 at 80%, that’s not very effective ? What about 10,15,20,30 sets of 2 at 80% ?

I apologize for the long post, I really hope you can help me on this.
[/quote]

If it helps, what I do it’s to add 1 set every same workout, so I can have enought time to feel my cumulative fatige. But not too many sets, this way I can go up with weight too.

174

Hi Coach,

I have a question about pull-ups/chin-ups. Some of the authors here have recently been promoting bringing the chest to the bar during a chin/pull-up as appose to just bringing the head above the bar. For the life of me I can’t seem to get my chest to the bar! I can do 15+ reps no problem, but can’t get my chest to the bar even on the first rep. My question is what do I need to do to get my chest to the bar?

Thanks in advance and the video’s with you in them recently have been awesome. I especially liked your guest appearance in the Dave Tate squat video.

If any T-Nationers have any suggestions I’d greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Chris

175

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
gojira wrote:
Chris,

How tall are you, and how much do you weigh? How long were you a competitive Olympic lifter. How long ago was that?

Thanks

My favorite color is silver and I like long walks on the beach… what the heck, this is a TRAINING questions and answer forum!!![/quote]

Silver? Seriously? I’ve been taking training advice from a guy whose favorite color is silver?!?

176

Question on blast isometrics…

So I’m planning my next shoulder/tri/chest specialization phase, with the goal being to bring my push press max up for competition (strongman). I start slowing down around nose level and fail right above my forehead, so I was thinking about doing some iso holds (pushing against pins) after my DE Military Press for assistance.

After seeing the video, I’m considering doing blast iso’s instead, as it seems like that would better stimulate the CNS without destroying it for my max effort day. You used them mostly as an activation exercise, but would it make sense to do 3-4 sets of 3 at different heights (nose to forehead) right after some speed reps?

Also, I’ve based a lot of my training around what you write here and in your books, but I was wondering with the way all your views on training have changed and advanced, will you be writing another book at some point?

177

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
partymonster975 wrote:
What exercises do you suggest for someone with a weak core to start with?

This is one situation where I would not hate planks and side supports.[/quote]

Thib,

I understand that plank and side plank progressions may not be something you’d be particularly fond of, but can progressions also be worthwhile so long as the increase in degree of difficulty keeps the duration of the iso holds to about 30 seconds or under?

While there are likely many ways to potentially progress these, a few examples off the top of my head would be

prone plank: elevated with three points of support and a DB or KB in the “free-hanging” arm forcing you to resist rotation; feet on a Swiss ball with hands on the floor + stepping off the ball with one leg at a time and reaching out to the side to touch the floor with the foot; etc.

side plank: top leg abducted; bottom leg flexed at the hip; feet elevated; dynamic leg swings while maintaining rigid posture, etc.

178

Hi Thibs

I play judo and currently weigh 82 kgs at 6’0". I currently do judo 5-6 times a week. My issue is that I am plain weak. My strength numbers are very low. I am wondering if this is because I need to go up to the under 90 kg class to ‘fill out’ for my height or just need to build some strength. I have looked into Defranco’s training and the 5/3/1.

What is your reccomendation first whether I should go up a weight class (does height to weight matter for strength)? and second which is a solid program (on of yours perhaps)? I am sure there would be a big difference in the program if I was to stay at this weight and build strength compared to going up to 90 kgs.

I have been doing a 3 day split with lots of compound movements for a while now (alternating one week medium reps and one week high reps). I am 23.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Ciz

179

Hey Coach,

After doing a set in the 6-12 rep range i notice that there is a big drop off in reps on the following set, even after a 3 min rest period. For example:

Chins + 35kg

set 1: 9 reps
set2: 6 reps
set3: 4 reps

Question is: What is an acceptable cut off point when training for size? Should i have terminated the exercise after the 1st set?

Also, what kind of program do you recommned for someone with a poor work capacity?

Thanks

180

[quote]Maximov wrote:
Hey Coach,

After doing a set in the 6-12 rep range i notice that there is a big drop off in reps on the following set, even after a 3 min rest period. For example:

Chins + 35kg

set 1: 9 reps
set2: 6 reps
set3: 4 reps

Question is: What is an acceptable cut off point when training for size? Should i have terminated the exercise after the 1st set?

Also, what kind of program do you recommned for someone with a poor work capacity?

Thanks

[/quote]

I had the same problem during a keto diet. So I started to take carbs 60-30 min. before workout.
Also cardio I guess improves work capacity.

I’m interested to know the answer from Thibaudeau, I want to solve that as well.

181

[quote]sergiv wrote:
Maximov wrote:
Hey Coach,

After doing a set in the 6-12 rep range i notice that there is a big drop off in reps on the following set, even after a 3 min rest period. For example:

Chins + 35kg

set 1: 9 reps
set2: 6 reps
set3: 4 reps

Question is: What is an acceptable cut off point when training for size? Should i have terminated the exercise after the 1st set?

Also, what kind of program do you recommned for someone with a poor work capacity?

Thanks

I had the same problem during a keto diet. So I started to take carbs 60-30 min. before workout.
Also cardio I guess improves work capacity.

I’m interested to know the answer from Thibaudeau, I want to solve that as well.[/quote]

Well, honestly I rarely if ever have that problem neither do most of my clients because I stick to lower reps most of the time, even when training for hypertrophy. The highest I personally go is 5 reps and with clients it is 6 with occasional use of sets of 8 reps.

A high rep set causes a lot of fatigue (which leads to a drop in performance) and doesn’t really activate the nervous system, so the end result is that performance potential drops drastically after a hard set of high(er) reps.

If high rep sets are to be performed, they should be done as the last set of an exercise with 85% of the max weight achieved during that workout.

For example.

On the bench press you might do

135lbs x 5 (feel set)
185 x 5 (feel set)
205 x 5
225 x 5
235 x 5
245 x 5
255 x 5 (grinding set, end there)

Then use 85% of that 255 (215lbs) and do as many reps as you can. That’s the end of the exercise.